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  1. #1
    Stood in the Fire tidus4eva's Avatar
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    The great item squish is coming

    November 4th, 2011, Blizzard announced plans for a great item squish: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/3885585

    It was met with a near 50:50 split between players, some saying they wanted it, others saying they didn't, with fair arguments for both. Some people against the squish said that with the item squish, soloing old content would be lost (which it likely wouldn't), others said it would make their character feel weak. And other players said that numbers are really starting to get out of hand, and it would be easier to balance if values were lower.

    You can lean either way, it doesn't matter, but the way things are going currently, Blizzard will likely be bringing in the item squish for the next expansion.

    Here is why I think it's coming:
    Lets have a look at ilevels, 5.0 brought us an ilvl jump from level 85 DS gear 397 to level 90 normal mode 496. That's a jump of 99 item levels. Comparing this to the increase from ICC to 4.0 raids the ilvl went from 264 (in 25 mans) to 359 which is a jump of 95 points. So each expansion is bringing us approximately 100 item levels from the previous expansion. Let's leave this here and remember it for later.

    Let's compare our gear in this expansion. An average ilvl for people not currently doing heroic mode is around 480-495 and for those in heroic mode they are around 500-505. BIS is 508-510 (outside of upgrades, and I won't be covering the upgrade system).

    The next patch is bringing us an increase in the amount of different item levels dropping with the Thunderforged system. Patch 5.2 has 5 different tiers of ilvls, we currently have 3 (RF, Norm, HC). Item levels in 5.2 are as follows: 541 Heroic Thunderforged, 535 Heroic, 528 Normal Thunderforged, 522 Normal, 502 Raid Finder.
    For heroic mode clearers, they are getting a boost of 30 item levels, normal mode clearers will see a boost of 20 item levels and raid finder clearers will see a boost of 10-20 item levels, on average from drops alone. Keeping in mind that there are purchased items at the 522 ilevel.

    We've increased in power from the start of the expansion by nearly 100 ilevels already (463-541), compared to Cataclysm where we went from 346-404 (58ilvls)

    We are having a huge leap this expansion between item levels for gear. If we only get one more tier in the expansion, then we'll see item levels at nearly 600 by the end of MoP if this trend continues. Gearing is currently exponential, and the next expansion would need to compensate for that, potentially bringing us into an ilevel of 700-735. I just can't see that happening, could you imagine what kind of stats would be on gear at ilvl 729?


    Whether you like it or not, the great item squish is coming, so they (Blizzard) are using their final resources and pushing the limit of how large our numbers can get before it happens, they are testing the water with additional item levels before the squish us down.
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  2. #2
    im okay with this.

  3. #3
    Pandaren Monk
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    Good! Should have happened for MoP.

  4. #4
    I love high numbers

    I look forward to the day when i can crit for over a million

    After all aint we suppose to be getting more powerful as we get to the magical 100

    Why should the numbers be squished cause some people are scared of a few extra zeros

  5. #5
    Brewmaster Tegux's Avatar
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    Could be blizzards big announcement, or could be something else. Who knows?! But I would like to see an item squish, ilvl is just getting out of control.
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  6. #6
    Warchief Voyager's Avatar
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    It won't happen, they scrapped it completely. They added the comma for a reason. Live with it.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Combooticus View Post

    Why should the numbers be squished cause some people are scared of a few extra zeros
    The counter argument is why should they appease your boner for large numbers if all that really matters is your relative power to the mob itself?
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  8. #8
    Titan Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Damn I was looking forward to the expansion where the numbers were so huge they didn't even fit in my screen, when numbers were so huge, they didn't fit any of the variable types in C++ (or whatever language WoW is programmed with), thus causing the game to crash, the computer to explode and my desk to catch fire.

    If a video game developer removed tumors from players, they'd whine about nerfing their loss in weight and access to radiation powers. -Cracked.com

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Combooticus View Post
    I love high numbers

    I look forward to the day when i can crit for over a million

    After all aint we suppose to be getting more powerful as we get to the magical 100

    Why should the numbers be squished cause some people are scared of a few extra zeros
    few classes can do it already .

  10. #10
    Herald of the Titans inboundpaper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OscaR View Post
    few classes can do it already .
    Shit, I've done it.
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  11. #11
    Stood in the Fire Augh's Avatar
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    Remember pretty clearly GC explaining how the unexpected addition of hardmodes in Ulduar led to their ilvl plans for the whole expansion getting completely fucked up. Makes me wonder why do they go and do the same thing now with Thunderforged stuff.

    Which makes me think back further to the original introduction of combat ratings over flat percentages, blah blah. Some kind of squish is inevitable, it's just a matter of when, and they've been staving it off for years and years. Exponential scaling ain't a great basis for future expansion, they found that out a loooong time ago.

    Edit: Seems there's a few posts in the thread which presume people are either scared of, or unable to count numbers with superfluous strings of 0 added to the end. These seem to be posted by people unable to actually work out what the eventual problem is. That's kinda interesting. Or amusing, idk.
    Last edited by Augh; 2013-02-06 at 04:34 AM.

  12. #12
    Dreadlord Nexsa's Avatar
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    Big numbers don't bother my mind. In the end it's all equal. As for the new feature, my bet is on the level and gear scale to older dungeons when teamed with a lower level sorta thing. they already announced that in BGs your level would be scaled up to the max level for that bracket.

  13. #13
    Big numbers are a very big problem for the game, they are simply too large and and confusing for my small mind to wrap around. Please alter every facet of the content so the numbers can get to more manageable levels my feeble mind can better understand.

  14. #14
    They should have done the squish long before now.
    Or made the increase in item level both during and between expansions not as severe as they currently are.

    Tier 1 (Molten Core) Item level is 66.
    Tier 2 (BWL) Item level is 76
    Tier 3 (Naxxramas) is 88
    20 item levels between tiers.

    Tier 4 is 120 (32 item levels above the last expansion)
    Tier 5 is 130
    Tier 6 (hyjal/BT) is 146/154
    Tier 6 (Sunwell) is 150/160
    30 item levels to BT gear/40 item level to sunwell gear

    Tier 7 is 200/213/219(KT/Maly)/226(KT/Maly) (40 item levels above the last expansion)
    Tier 8 is 219/226
    Tier 9 232/245/258
    Tier 10 251/258(LK)/264/277/284(LK)
    77 item levels to heroic LK

    Tier 11 is 359/372/379(sinestra) (75 item levels above the last expansion)
    Tier 12 is 378/384/397(Ragnaros)
    Tier 13 is 384/397/410/416(DW)
    51 item levels to Heroic DW

    Tier 14 is /476/483/496//503(elite)/509/516(heroic elite) (60 item levels above the last expansion)
    Tier 15 is 502/522/528(thunderforged)/535/541(thunderforged elite)
    58 item levels between tiers
    With at least 1 more tier to go.

    With the exception of one or two gaps, the gap between the last tier of the previous expansion and the first tier of the next expansion is increasing, as is the amount between tiers. We are looking at some seriously inflated stats. If they had controlled it better earlier on maybe before wrath hit, we might not be seeing such a discrepancy.

    If the jumps had been smaller each step tier 14 might have had an item level closer to than of tier 13 or even 12 397 or so instead of starting at 476 for MSV LFR.
    My name is Cernunnos, I will love you like no other, I have died a thousand deaths, each time I died I thought of you.

  15. #15
    Big numbers look much cooler than small numbers, sure. But then again, it's all relative. If we were hitting 400-500 regularly, 1000 would look just as awesome as the big numbers we see now.

    The main thing is that everything is easier with smaller numbers. It allows for greater accuracy on Blizzard's part with balancing, and it's a lot easier for us to deal with smaller numbers when theorycrafting.

    And then, of course, reverting to smaller numbers fixes the fact that the current numbers are getting out of hand.

    So I'm all for an item squish, and soon. People will be upset at first, but they'll get used to it, why wouldn't they? It's not like anything will actually change, all the numbers will just be scaled down by the same amount. It's just going to be a lot of work on Blizzard's part to sort everything out, but soon enough they're not going to have a choice.

  16. #16
    Am much as I like big numbers... I really wish the item squish was already in.

  17. #17
    Changing it now will freak out a lot of people. Some people dont like change or anything that seems like a nerf.

    Going from 350k crits back down to something in the regions of 100k/110k or even back to 56k will be a huge shock. Heck remember when 2.2k dps in tier 7 was a BIG deal? Can anyone imagine going back to that after the 70k/80k we are looking at now?
    My name is Cernunnos, I will love you like no other, I have died a thousand deaths, each time I died I thought of you.

  18. #18
    Stood in the Fire zerocoolhack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shimerra View Post
    The counter argument is why should they appease your boner for large numbers if all that really matters is your relative power to the mob itself?
    There is a difference. This is how its been since the game came out. New expac higher levels bigger numbers. The item squish seems more work then its worth when they have to go back and reconfigure all of the older raids to make them inline with the new ilvls.

    And please tell me its fun going from 400k health down to 40k so a vocal minority can feel good.

  19. #19
    Stood in the Fire Augh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zerocoolhack View Post
    There is a difference. This is how its been since the game came out. New expac higher levels bigger numbers. The item squish seems more work then its worth when they have to go back and reconfigure all of the older raids to make them inline with the new ilvls.

    And please tell me its fun going from 400k health down to 40k so a vocal minority can feel good.
    Would it make me happy going from 400 to 40k? Nope. Would it upset me? Additional nope.

    Let's be real, the people who would have their "fun destroyed" by a numbers shakeup will be back to frenziedly beating off when they crit for 850(with no k!) within a month.

  20. #20
    I am pretty sure in a few expansions all items will have only two stats (attack and defense) with single digit numbers.

    Tards Glove: +1 ATTACK +2 DEFENSE
    Dumbed Down Sword: +3 ATTACK +1 DEFENSE
    Crown of the LFR Champion: +2 ATTACK +2 DEFENSE

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