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  1. #1

    Stampede before or after Bloodlust?

    Hello community!

    I was wondering, if the pets I can summon with Stampede benefit from the buffs I have at the moment I summon them - like trinket proccs, agi pot and Bloodlust, or doesn't it matter when I use Stampede?
    Atm I use the skill right after BL is used (since I can only use Stampede one time at a boss encounter, so I wait till BL is up). A Shadow in my guild once said that he had to use his shadow fiend before BL and told me that I had to do it too (although I'm not convienced by it).

    So I hope that you could help me with my question and correct me, if I was wrong =)

  2. #2
    pets for hunters scale dynamicaly

  3. #3
    Only once in a fight? Most fights this tier last more than 5 minutes, or at least a bunch do. Best to hit it right at the start regardless. It's usually one of the first things I hit, usually right behind getting that first BW+KC+GT to get trinkets up. It'll scale just fine with lust and all of your procs, and most importantly your pre-pot.

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  4. #4
    Fight lasts less than 5 mins? Use it during bloodlust.

    Fight lasts more than 5 mins? Use it twice regardless of bloodlust.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by spiattalo View Post
    Fight lasts less than 5 mins? Use it during bloodlust.
    I'm not too sure about this. At the start of the fight I get about 14k agility from procs, prepot and my Engineering tinker which is pretty much guaranteed. During Heroism/Bloodlust you are getting some procs and a potion but you might not be able to line everything up.

    I'd calculate whether it's better to use at the start or during Heroism/Bloodlust but I'm not really sure where to begin.
    Bovan.9481
    Completed legendaries: Twilight, Sunrise (Eternity), Bolt, The Juggernaut, Howler.
    Current projects: Incinerator, full ascended medium armor, versatile mighty infusions.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by spiattalo View Post
    Fight lasts less than 5 mins? Use it during bloodlust.

    Fight lasts more than 5 mins? Use it twice regardless of bloodlust.
    You're better off using it at the start with Potion, Rapid Fire and agility procs. Although in saying that almost every fight under 5 minutes you will likely lust at the start.
    Last edited by Glurp; 2013-02-05 at 06:23 PM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovan View Post
    I'd calculate whether it's better to use at the start or during Heroism/Bloodlust but I'm not really sure where to begin.
    I have no maths either but I suspect that there wouldn't be that big of a difference tbh. And you should still be using your second potion during hero/lust anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    You're better off using it at the start with Potion, Rapid Fire and agility procs. Although in saying that almost every fight under 5 minutes you will likely lust at the start.
    Myeh, but as a BM you usually don't use RF at the beginning of the fight. I don't know, I'm used to blow Stampede at the beginning of the fight anyway (only fights which last less than 5 mins are those we don't care about for guild progress), but I always thought that hero/lust+potion+occasional procs would beat prepot+all procs-hero. Could be wrong.
    Either way, again, you won't gimp your dps.

  8. #8
    Bloodlust does nothing for Stampede, which is your largest DPS cooldown. Always use Stampede immediately when your prepot and trinkets are going.

    Always use your second pot with your 2nd stampede. If you won't get a second one use it if your BW and trinkets line up.

  9. #9
    Thank you guys for the helpfull answers =)
    I didn't want to argue with him, cause he is one of those ppl who are always right (and that makes it a bit...exhausting), but now I can be 200% sure that I was right!
    And I'll use Stampede at the beginning of the boss fight now~

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by spiattalo View Post
    I have no maths either but I suspect that there wouldn't be that big of a difference tbh. And you should still be using your second potion during hero/lust anyway.



    Myeh, but as a BM you usually don't use RF at the beginning of the fight. I don't know, I'm used to blow Stampede at the beginning of the fight anyway (only fights which last less than 5 mins are those we don't care about for guild progress), but I always thought that hero/lust+potion+occasional procs would beat prepot+all procs-hero. Could be wrong.
    Either way, again, you won't gimp your dps.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cidis View Post
    Bloodlust does nothing for Stampede, which is your largest DPS cooldown. Always use Stampede immediately when your prepot and trinkets are going.

    Always use your second pot with your 2nd stampede. If you won't get a second one use it if your BW and trinkets line up.
    So much wrong info here. Bloodlust/Hero increase the attacks your stampede pets do. As BM you use RF at the start since your readiness gives you a second and if you only get one stampede, stampede at the beginning is better than saving it for hero during the fight. Save your second pot with your second stampede and since readiness will be up try to set up your rotation accordingly. So it's just best to use it at the start of the fight when you get 100% pot uptime and nearly 100% trinket/proc uptime during your stampede... Chances are that they'll never line up again in the fight at a point where you could use your stampede again.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-06 at 04:02 AM ----------

    For example my stampede pets averaged 4.5k hits and 9k crits on fights. AP scaling with procs (and pot) averaged out would probably bring that to about 8k and 16k. Without hero I'd get about 12 melee attacks and with hero i'd get about 15. Now if you are waiting for hero to pop your stampede, chances are you won't have procs up so 67500 - 135000 damage without procs or 96000 - 192000 with procs. So what this means is that if you save your stampede for hero for some reason you better make sure you have some procs up, because if you don't you lose damage. Those 3 extra attacks are just giving me the equivalent of ~900 agi scaling as opposed to all my procs (scope, cloak, trinket, pot, synapse springs). That doesn't even come close.
    Last edited by Tehstool; 2013-02-06 at 06:15 AM.

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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehstool View Post
    So much wrong info here. Bloodlust/Hero increase the attacks your stampede pets do. As BM you use RF at the start since your readiness gives you a second and if you only get one stampede, stampede at the beginning is better than saving it for hero during the fight. Save your second pot with your second stampede and since readiness will be up try to set up your rotation accordingly. So it's just best to use it at the start of the fight when you get 100% pot uptime and nearly 100% trinket/proc uptime during your stampede... Chances are that they'll never line up again in the fight at a point where you could use your stampede again.[COLOR="red"]
    I think I haven't been clear.
    In a 2 stampede per fight scenario, ofc you want to use stampede with pre-pot and all procs up.
    In a 1 stampede per fight scenario, I use it with hero because that's when you use your second pot. Sure, you might miss some trinket proc, if your trinkets aren't on-use, but you still gain 30% melee haste.
    I didn't make the math, granted, might be I'm overvaluing haste there.
    Also, I always pop BW before RF, and now that you make me think of it, I'm dumb. Man, I so want to raid as MM... :<

    Quote Originally Posted by Cidis View Post
    Bloodlust does nothing for Stampede, which is your largest DPS cooldown.
    You'd call 30% melee haste and focus regen nothing?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by spiattalo View Post
    I think I haven't been clear.
    In a 2 stampede per fight scenario, ofc you want to use stampede with pre-pot and all procs up.
    In a 1 stampede per fight scenario, I use it with hero because that's when you use your second pot. Sure, you might miss some trinket proc, if your trinkets aren't on-use, but you still gain 30% melee haste.
    I didn't make the math, granted, might be I'm overvaluing haste there.
    Also, I always pop BW before RF, and now that you make me think of it, I'm dumb. Man, I so want to raid as MM... :<



    You'd call 30% melee haste and focus regen nothing?
    You are still wrong. You should pre-pot, stampede + RF, BW. As soon as BW is up Readiness and BW again.
    See? you still have stampede with haste, but at the same time with a pre-pot and all procs aligned.
    Which means, Stampede Should be used at the start of any fight (barring some exceptions like Will).

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by WarBringerPT View Post
    See? you still have stampede with haste, but at the same time with a pre-pot and all procs aligned.
    Not saying I'm right, I'm quite confident I'm not seeing all the replies; but if you're implying Rapid Fire gives pets haste ("you still have stampede with haste") you're wrong. Rapid Fire only gives haste to pets' focus regen, not melee attacks - which only hero/lust gives.
    Or am I misunderstanding your words?

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by spiattalo View Post
    Not saying I'm right, I'm quite confident I'm not seeing all the replies; but if you're implying Rapid Fire gives pets haste ("you still have stampede with haste") you're wrong. Rapid Fire only gives haste to pets' focus regen, not melee attacks - which only hero/lust gives.
    Or am I misunderstanding your words?
    Rapid fire gives ranged haste which doesn't benefit your pet's melee speed.

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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehstool View Post
    Rapid fire gives ranged haste which doesn't benefit your pet's melee speed.
    Isn't that what I wrote?

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by spiattalo View Post
    Isn't that what I wrote?
    Yep, was just reiterating it for the people who didn't know.

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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehstool View Post
    Yep, was just reiterating it for the people who didn't know.
    I'll try to be clearer then. Since he said
    Quote Originally Posted by WarBringerPT View Post
    You are still wrong. You should pre-pot, stampede + RF, BW. As soon as BW is up Readiness and BW again.
    See? you still have stampede with haste, but at the same time with a pre-pot and all procs aligned.
    it seemed to me that he was implying that RF gave pets melee haste (since we're talking about not having bloodlust on), so I wrote
    Quote Originally Posted by spiattalo View Post
    if you're implying Rapid Fire gives pets haste ("you still have stampede with haste") you're wrong. Rapid Fire only gives haste to pets' focus regen, not melee attacks - which only hero/lust gives.
    and I meant that RF doesn't give melee haste to pets but does give them hastened focus regen.
    Where did I write RF increases pets' melee speed?

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by spiattalo View Post
    I'll try to be clearer then. Since he said

    it seemed to me that he was implying that RF gave pets melee haste (since we're talking about not having bloodlust on), so I wrote

    and I meant that RF doesn't give melee haste to pets but does give them hastened focus regen.
    Where did I write RF increases pets' melee speed?
    I was reiterating your point on pet's melee attacks not benefiting from RF. I was just paraphrasing what you said.

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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehstool View Post
    I was reiterating your point on pet's melee attacks not benefiting from RF. I was just paraphrasing what you said.
    Ow sorry, I guess my brain lagged there.

  20. #20
    I still don't get the design decision behind making the pet inherit our melee haste.
    It gets everything else, even !ranged! AP, it doesn't make any sense that the only thing the pet doesn't inherit is ranged specific haste buffs.

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