Changes to Doge/Parry Protection Spec

[Seani]

Recent Developer notes have concluded that Dodge/Parry will have a 30% chance to 'proc' grand-crusader. The idea is to put more of a focus on these avoidance stats rather than attributes like haste which have begun to to take prescedence in 5.1 raiding paladins. Will you gem and reforge haste after the 5.2 patch? Or will you you stack dodge/parry to improve your holy power production? World of Warcraft players, the choice is yours...

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

my stat priority: hit cap, exp cap, haste, mastery=stamina, the rest. The change merely makes dodge and parry less crap, doesn't make them good.

[celinamuna]

30% on dodge/parry even with current numbers still seems too low to make good enough for gearing prot/dodge, but mb theck will show that it's actually better.

[Seani]

im sorry to be rude butler but 'good' doesent need to be quoted, as it is a common word and is hardly ironical. Were you quoting good to suggest that it is not actually good?

Please refrain from calling out other people's grammar on the forum. English may be the language of the forum, but it isn't necessarily the first language of any given user. - Malthanis

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

If you feel sorry for being rude, don't be rude

Placing a word in quotation marks is a common means of putting emphasis on it.

Theck is likely to show that the value of avoidance and mastery has increased while the value of haste has stayed around the same. The change will be about 10k dps loss on single target fights, DPS will stay around the same on 3 target fights, and increase significantly when tanking more than three mobs.

[Seani]

Placing a word in quotation marks is a common means of putting emphasis on it. sorry for being rude, don't be rude

Not sure that is true Butler, but please let me know if I am wrong posters.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

I think I know my own language >.>

You know what, I'll remove the quotation marks. Just for you. Because, for some inexplicable reason, you appear offended by them and would rather debate my use of punctuation than the topic of YOUR OWN THREAD.

In the meanwhile, why don't you tell us what YOU think about the change, given that you started the thread.

General rule of thumb when talking to people:

If you feel the need for the phrase "I'm sorry to be rude", don't say what you were going to say.
If you feel the need for the phrase "no offense meant", don't say what you were going to say.

[Deleted]

Not sure that is true Butler, but please let me know if I am wrong posters.

You're sounding a little offensive tbh.

[Deleted]

main things i see from this change
-> no longer need hit/ep to generate grand crusader procs
-> more mobs = more procs, minor buff to aoe tanking ( posibbly payback from soi aoe nerf)

-> once again we are the aoe tanks as with multiply mobs for multiple procs we might have much more generation jsut from the crusader procs and have a 100% uptime in the sheild buff while enough mobs are alive.

[Soisoisoi]

main things i see from this change
-> no longer need hit/ep to generate grand crusader procs
-> more mobs = more procs, minor buff to aoe tanking ( posibbly payback from soi aoe nerf)

-> once again we are the aoe tanks as with multiply mobs for multiple procs we might have much more generation jsut from the crusader procs and have a 100% uptime in the sheild buff while enough mobs are alive.

Had to think about this one a bit, but won't you still go for hit and expertise still as you still need to hit the target for the HP; the procc just means you get to use the ability, no?

Going for the hit/exp cap was the only thing that currently attracted me to Protadins, compared to Death Knights, who don't go for Hit/Exp outside of wanting more DPS. :/

[Deleted]

Had to think about this one a bit, but won't you still go for hit and expertise still as you still need to hit the target for the HP; the procc just means you get to use the ability, no?

Going for the hit/exp cap was the only thing that currently attracted me to Protadins, compared to Death Knights, who don't go for Hit/Exp outside of wanting more DPS. :/

This just sligthly reduced the value of expertise hard capping in terms on pure HoPo regen. For those going for max HoPo regen it will now worth stacking haste a bit longer before hard capping.

[Guzug]

The issue isnt about hit and exp... you'll still cap those as normal you do now. The issue as they clearly said is haste. Haste let us generate more holy power so we went there. Now dodge and parry will allow us to generate more holy power.

So the question is, will the holy power gained from dodge+the damage avoidance end up better than the holy power gained from haste keeping in mind this does diminish haste some because of the removal of its interaction with grand crusader.

This will probably end up being a diminishing returns issue. Dodge and parry will be the better option up to some dr point and then haste will again take over.

[Deleted]

The issue isnt about hit and exp... you'll still cap those as normal you do now. The issue as they clearly said is haste. Haste let us generate more holy power so we went there. Now dodge and parry will allow us to generate more holy power.

So the question is, will the holy power gained from dodge+the damage avoidance end up better than the holy power gained from haste keeping in mind this does diminish haste some because of the removal of its interaction with grand crusader.

This will probably end up being a diminishing returns issue. Dodge and parry will be the better option up to some dr point and then haste will again take over.

Completely disregarding diminishing returns. Also completely disregarding T6 talents (which will increase the value of haste).

Adding 1% of dodge/parry at 20%, assuming a standard boss is hitting you at a 1.5s swing timer, you will gain an additional 0.12 HoPo per minute.
If you would take the same rating and put it into haste at say 20% haste, you would get roughly 0.59 HoPo per minute.

But as said, this is disregading DR on dodge and parry, disregarding T6 talent, also disregarding time not spent tanking and time spent tanking multiple mobs.


Btw, never do math in the morning! Apparently 875 haste rating = 0.06% haste. You heard it here first!

[MerinPally]

Btw, never do math in the morning! Apparently 875 haste rating = 0.06% haste. You heard it here first!

You're a terrible human being and I hope you feel as bad as you should.

[Deleted]

You're a terrible human being and I hope you feel as bad as you should.

If I should feel as bad as the visual effect in the trailer of Fast and the furious 6, then yes, I do

[MerinPally]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oM95vXEShx4

Dat owl. Bird. Thing. Who knows.

[Malthanis]

Had to think about this one a bit, but won't you still go for hit and expertise still as you still need to hit the target for the HP; the procc just means you get to use the ability, no?

Going for the hit/exp cap was the only thing that currently attracted me to Protadins, compared to Death Knights, who don't go for Hit/Exp outside of wanting more DPS. :/

Using AS with Grand Crusader up grants Holy Power regardless of landing the ability (last I checked, anyways).

As for dodge/parry proc'ing GC, I'll give that a big "meh". I don't think it'll have enough oomph to really make people want to gear for dodge/parry.

[Fhi]

At least I can convince my current raid leader to let me main tank instead of offtank now. \o/

[MerinPally]

At least I can convince my current raid leader to let me main tank instead of offtank now. \o/

I woulda thought before, being able to outheal the healers and outdps the dps, woulda been reason to do so already.

[Fhi]

I woulda thought before, being able to outheal the healers and outdps the dps, woulda been reason to do so already.

Well, I stopped raiding for a long time, which means I am still rusty (not that I was super to begin with), and my gear is worse than my other tank - only 481. And I have a ret spec. So I get relegated to offtanking.

This change makes it even worse to offtank, now that we completely lose GC procs.