1. #1

    5.4 ilvl seems really low?

    By the time 5.4 hits, many heroic raiders will be 548-549 with most/all heroic thunderforged and a 608 cloak (speaking from a 25man guild perspective). I'm sitting at 540 myself, and basically just waiting for thunderforged heroic gear to drop. I was expecting similar ilvl jumps this tier, something along the lines of ~560 normal, ~575 heroic, with 5.5 bringing upgrades back again. This seemed roughly in-line with what we've seen this expansion.

    However, 521/541/554 is just not a big enough gap. Anyone who has been clearing heroics, and upgraded their gear, will get absolutely nothing from normals. Anyone who's been clearing normals will get absolutely nothing from LFR. This is totally different from all previous patches. If everyone stays at roughly the same progression, people are looking at a mere 5-7 ilvl upgrade compared to around 26 ilevels... 509 > 535.

    Is such a small gear increase going to keep people playing? What's everyone's thoughts? Hopefully these numbers are not final.

    For reference:
    5.0 Normal: 489-496
    5.0 Heroic: 502-509
    5.2 Normal: 522-528
    5.2 Heroic: 535-541
    5.4 Normal: 541
    5.4 Heroic: 554
    Last edited by tyrindor; 2013-06-12 at 09:40 AM.

  2. #2
    I d keep raiding for an itemlevel increase of 1. But thats just me, maybe make a poll.
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  3. #3
    Epic! Sinndra's Avatar
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    i dont think the numbers are even close to final.. its data mined day 1 stuff we are talkin about here.. however.. lets pretend it is final.. yah its plenty to keep me going. its still an increase.. and its a new look. which helps also.
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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Guldur View Post
    I d keep raiding for an itemlevel increase of 1. But thats just me, maybe make a poll.
    Would if I could, can only make one on thread creation I think.

  5. #5
    Definitely seems slightly lower than I expected. On its own it doesn't bother me much - having different jumps between tiers though kinda does.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by whoranzone View Post
    Definitely seems slightly lower than I expected.
    Only reason is this "flex raiding" thing is getting what should be the LFR ilvls, LFR should've been at least 528 to keep in line with previous increases.
    Last edited by IRunSoFarAway; 2013-06-12 at 09:25 AM.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by tyrindor View Post
    Anyone who has been clearing heroics, and upgraded their gear, will get absolutely nothing from normals. Anyone who's been clearing normals will get absolutely nothing from LFR. T
    Hey, this wasn't pretty much what the LFR QQ'ers were asking for?

  8. #8
    If 521 is the LFR iLvl than I, and probably many other people who only run LFR, will run out of gear to get from LFR pretty quickly. SPA gear gives us a bunch of 522s and Nalak drops 2 522 tier pieces. I'd be looking to get tier pieces and maybe a little bit of other gear.
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  9. #9
    It isn't low, or well not to me, seems pretty OK. Plus you can't forget Wrathion's quest.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by IRunSoFarAway View Post
    Only reason is this "flex raiding" thing is getting what should be the LFR ilvls, LFR should've been at least 528 to keep in line with previous increases.
    I still find it odd they expect heroic raiders to clear all of normal, while the entire raid will get 0 upgrades from it.

    Basically heroic guilds will have absolutely no reason to do anything but progression the entire week, when the week is nearly over there will be no reason to clear the remaining normal bosses. When they do kill a heroic, it's only going to be about 5-7 ilvls better, so guilds will spend months wiping and progressing just to get upgrades that won't even be noticeable (5 ilvls increase on top of 550 is less than 1% difference!) This is going to lead to burn out and make raiding feel very unrewarding in my opinion.

    I really hope these numbers are no where near final. They need a +10 ilvl across the board, preferably +15 ilvl to bring it in-line with past tiers gaps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frozenzooom View Post
    It isn't low, or well not to me, seems pretty OK. Plus you can't forget Wrathion's quest.
    5.0 Normal: 489-496
    5.0 Heroic: 502-509

    5.2 Normal: 522-528
    5.2 Heroic: 535-541

    5.4 Normal: 541
    5.4 Heroic: 554

    It's an incredibly smaller gap.
    Last edited by tyrindor; 2013-06-12 at 09:42 AM.

  11. #11
    Dont forget the new raid lvl.

  12. #12
    the jump between t14 and t15 was 26ilvl (496->522 normal, 509-> 535 heroic)

    the jump in 5.4 (incase it would be final) is 19ilvls (522->541, 535 ->554 heroic)

    personally i found them ilvl jump from one tiers normal mode too the next tiers normal gear quite high so i like that they mighttone down it a bit.

  13. #13
    this was done because ppls complained it's hard to get back to the game if you take a break, and most ppls take breaks in mid expansion, which is after they got bored of 5.3 they won't pay 3-5 more months just to do nothing and will take a break untill 5.4 soo when that patch is up they will just jump to lfr and then go to flexy raids or normals

  14. #14
    The Patient
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    Its not a small gap, the thing is that the gap between 5.0 and 5.2 wass too high due to LFR and the way the first tier was implemented. Since the shared lockout and the adding of Heroics as a raid mode it has always been 19 ilvls. BoT BWD Tot4W were 359, Firelands 378, DS 397. Now the gap was only 3 ilvl higher, but inflated due to Thunderforged items and upgrades. Blues said that their plan was to allow upgrades in 5.4 too, and that thunderforged items (maybe bloodsoaked?) could be an option too. If both exist normal tier will go up to 555, and heroic to 568.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by felhunter View Post
    the jump between t14 and t15 was 26ilvl (496->522 normal, 509-> 535 heroic)

    the jump in 5.4 (incase it would be final) is 19ilvls (522->541, 535 ->554 heroic)

    personally i found them ilvl jump from one tiers normal mode too the next tiers normal gear quite high so i like that they mighttone down it a bit.
    The main difference is that we can now easily upgrade every slot (when we couldn't before), and we also get TF items now. These factors require the gap to be larger, not smaller, in order to make the new gear seem more meaningful. Not every BiS normal item was 496 last tier either, many were 489, so that 26 ilvl gap is a bit more.

    I still feel normals should provide upgrades even when compared to TF Heroic 2/2 gear from the last tier, even if it's only like 2-3 ilvls. Just like it has in the past. It gives heroic guilds a reason to clear out the instance and take breaks from progression content.

    The absolute lowest I feel the new ilvls should be would be 551/564, which gives heroic raiders a 2 ilvl upgrade from normals and makes that heroic gear actually seem worthwhile.

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