1. #1
    Moderator Sonnillon's Avatar
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    [Resto] Difference between our 2 healers

    We have 2 rdruids to choose from. Lets call them druid1 and druid2. When we have druid1 along, it is a smooth sailing, no healing issues, no mana issues for druid1. If we have druid2 along healing is bit of an issue, due to raid/tanks being too low and druid2 is constantly OOM, when druid2 shouldn't be.

    Their gear is roughly the same. Our GM said that druid2 is more of a static healer, but that shouldn't make that big of an impact. But healer w/o mana is bad. When the only extra innervate can come from a tank, it doesn't look good at all.

    Druid1
    Armory
    WoL

    Druid2
    Armory
    WoL

    Both WoL listed are from the same boss,but different days.

    Here is the log when both druid were along -WoL

    Can someone help out what is the difference. Druid2 is a decent player, but I just feel that should be performing lot better as we cannot depend on just one healer being along for kills :/
    Last edited by Sonnillon; 2013-02-06 at 11:28 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    The curse of the Bear, the only tank whose active mitigation not only has RNG included, but only consists of RNG.


  2. #2
    Good going calling the druid1 and druid2 and then showing the armory links.
    druid1 = Calanda and druid2 = Redpaws? correct?

    They seem to perform on an almost equal level from what I can see.
    Also, they have abit different play styles. Calanda seems to use regrowth alot more, this should be more mana consuming, but very effiecient. While Redpaws is using alot of nourish.
    Nourish is cheap but quite ineffective.
    Calanda has more intellect and spirit, which would give stronger hots and better regen.
    Redpaws has more mastery, which is not that favoured as a resto druid.

    I'm just stating thing. You should get them to talk to each other and try and learn from the other.

    Hope I helped even a little.

  3. #3
    Honestly I think your healer make up is throwing off druid2. TBH his healing looks more on par with what a resto druid normally does. I'm basing my opinions off of your windlord parses. Druid2 seems to be using this wildgrowth more. On that fight the shaman and the monk are probably stealing most of his ticks with quicker healing except on the rain of blades. Druid1 looks to be healing with rejuvs and holding back his wildgrowth for when its needed. Tell druid 2 to try to keep his heals more toward single target on that fight as the shaman and monk are gonna heal quicker than him. Competition of meters and you guys bringing the problem up is probably making him over play a little bit. Rdruid can be a very frustrating class to play at times when our hots get sniped.

    If he plays more toward tank healing keeping 3blooms and a rejuv a good placement on his swifmends and uses omen of clarity procs and the ocasional rejuv on the low targets he should even out. Tell him to save his wildgrowth for when the raid needs more topping for raid of blades and that sort of thing. I'm only saying that based on what I've experienced with a similar heal comp and I haven't played much like that. You have 3 strong raid healers and Nothing like a pally or a disc priest for the more frontloaded healing but super strong AOE heals.

    Also I don't remember much of normal windlord but I'm pretty sure your tanks healing on should be a good bit higher than it is.

    After looking at a break down of all their healing spells I'm seeing a lot of Nourish in there. I personally don't even have nourish bound anymore. Longer cast time and chance it won't crit make it an inferior heal in my opinion. Regrowth should be used on every omen of clarity proc. Garunteed crit that also buts a living seed out and its faster and free with OOC. The more cast healing spells the worst their mana. Tell them to stick with hots unless they can't avoid it. A good healer should be able to tell when to regowth and when to rejuv. Druid1 is also better with mushrooms. They are not a big deal now but in 5.2 they will make a big difference. If you can use its good AOE on demand and will stop you from wasting mana chasing the meters.
    Last edited by Beastest; 2013-02-06 at 12:00 PM.

  4. #4
    Beastest has already gone over the logs but i would add - Unlike Druid 1, Druid2 has far to much haste, he is over 1100 over the usual haste 'cap' of 3043 - swapping that out for spirit would improve his mana (or mastery once he is more comfortable with his mana management)

  5. #5
    Moderator Sonnillon's Avatar
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    No. I have not brought it up with them and I am not watching the meters on healing. I pointed it out just to show/tell that the healing is roughly the same with both of them.

    I just would want some general idea, before I have a chat with druid2. I might be druid, but I don't know anything about healing.

    BUT the issue is the general "feeling" of the healing. If with druid1 along the raid being at decent health is not an issue. The tanks not having to have to pop CD where they shouldn't have and can save their CD. If druid2 is along, raid is lowish, tank healing is so and so, where a major CD has to be used just to survive. Even the monk/shaman healers are the same on those tries, but the druids differ.

    It is not just the Wind Lord, it was just a good example.

    So you're saying that druid2 is using too much nourish and that is draining the mana? While druid1 uses less or no nourish at all?

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-06 at 02:12 PM ----------

    I will toss in another log from Empress (longest 11m attempt - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/o...?s=6832&e=7526). Druid was at first tasked to heal the raid, but then the shaman switched and druid was assigned to heal the paladin. Druid's mana was gone when other healers had plenty to go around.
    Last edited by Sonnillon; 2013-02-06 at 12:13 PM.
    Mari officer/RL/OT of Punished <- RECRUITING
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    The curse of the Bear, the only tank whose active mitigation not only has RNG included, but only consists of RNG.


  6. #6
    smooth sailing and no mana issues = good healing.
    healing issues and mana problems = bad healing.

    that being said.
    druids should have haste at or very very slightly over the cap they aim for. 3043 is the norm atm.
    Nourish shouldn't be cast at all. it won't drain mana as it is almost free but it takes an age to cast and does no healing.
    Wild growth is very powerful with SoTF talented but less so w/out. If the raid needs aoe heals it should be used close to cd either way if raid doesn't need it is a waste of mana.
    Swiftmend should be used close to cd at all times and as it procs the green circle of healing should be aimed at a player clumped near others (tanks and melee generally)
    regrowth should mainly be used during clearcasting procs (when it is free) and rarely w/out as it costs a lot of mana.
    lifebloom should have 100% uptime and be on the tank with aggro.
    rejuev should be the spell that does most healing but if overused will result in OOM.
    The rest is about reactions and awareness of what is going on. casting rejuev on someone who will be topped and stay topped within 2 seconds is pointless. casting it on someone who will keep taking damage is fantastic.
    When you have a good resto druid sit out everyone will notice stuff is harder and deaths more common.
    I know i am only allowed to be balance on farm content .

  7. #7
    Moderator Sonnillon's Avatar
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    You advice is very well put felis. Makes it easier for me to suggest things to druid2. We are going "farm" content tonight so it is a good place to try different healing strategy out.
    Mari officer/RL/OT of Punished <- RECRUITING
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    The curse of the Bear, the only tank whose active mitigation not only has RNG included, but only consists of RNG.


  8. #8
    The healing spell distribution for Mel'jarak looks about right for both druids. Comparing to my last visit to him, everyone is around 30% Rejuv which is about right. Redpaw needs to use Swiftmend more often and to better AoE healing effect, and I would suggest not to use Nourish so much (32% overheal means most of the time it wasn't necessary to cast at all). Glyph of Rejunevation is BAD, there are much better Glyphs and he only has 18% uptime anyway. Tranquility can be used twice in this fight (reducing mana spent on pulling the group back up after the AoE), and he only used Incarnation once. Lifebloom uptime 82% is way too low, Calanda has 98%.

    Looks like he already switched the Glyph, so he only needs to get down to 3043 haste. With a slight shift in spells he uses, and learning to properly use his CDs, this doesn't look too bad.

  9. #9
    Analysing the logs for Wind Lord:
    - Lifebloom Uptime: Druid1 (Calanda) has 95% uptime of lifebloom on the tank which is optimal compared to druid2 (Redpaws) who had ~80% uptime. This answers your concern about the tank being on low health to an extent - lifebloom should be on the tank always.
    - Harmony: (this is our mastery - when we cast a diect heal, we gain a buff which increases all of our periodic healing) druid1 had 90%+ uptime compared to druid2 on 80% when harmony should be up a lot more.
    - Swiftmend: this spell should be used on CD (more or less) with preference to the target being amongst over raid members so they benefit from the efflorescence proc (green circle). druid1 seems to handle his well, druid2 does not use swiftmend enough i feel.

    Armory:
    -the haste breakpoint to aim for is 3043 (or thereabouts) for additional HoT ticks - druid1 has met this and then refoged into spirit . mastery as necessary whereas druid2 has far too much haste (by over 1k or so) which can be improved
    - druid1 has considerably more spirit and mastery than druid2 which will also factor in

  10. #10
    I must be some really bad healer cause i got so much mana left at the end of the fight yet somehow manage to kill many many heroic bosses...

    Tbh, nothing should be use off CD straight away. Healing is a situational thing. U can't just spam things just because the raid is taking 5% hp dmg. May be when i raid with my guild, i always tell people off if they don't take advatage of our "green circle". Nothing should be spam, and WG shouldn't be use off CD. RG cast if proc (clear casting) on tanks, even if they are full, or someone needs that healing. It is not necessary to pre blanket raid with Reju before any inc raid dmg.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Irzerg View Post
    I must be some really bad healer cause i got so much mana left at the end of the fight yet somehow manage to kill many many heroic bosses...

    Tbh, nothing should be use off CD straight away. Healing is a situational thing. U can't just spam things just because the raid is taking 5% hp dmg. May be when i raid with my guild, i always tell people off if they don't take advatage of our "green circle". Nothing should be spam, and WG shouldn't be use off CD. RG cast if proc (clear casting) on tanks, even if they are full, or someone needs that healing. It is not necessary to pre blanket raid with Reju before any inc raid dmg.
    I agree with a lot of this. using WG when it isn't needed is pointless. when it is needed use it close to cd (varies with healing setup and talents esp SoTF)
    SM is great and i use it close to cd always but not just because it is off cd i must use it now. It needs to be used smartly and if you know someone will take spike damage in the next few seconds then wait for that and use it then.
    rejuev blanketing days are long gone esp preemtively
    nonetheless if you have a ton of mana left at the end of every hc progression kill then you are doing something wrong. You should have reforged some spirit into a throughput stat for a start .

  12. #12
    Logs don't make a healer, nuff said.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by felis View Post
    I agree with a lot of this. using WG when it isn't needed is pointless. when it is needed use it close to cd (varies with healing setup and talents esp SoTF)
    SM is great and i use it close to cd always but not just because it is off cd i must use it now. It needs to be used smartly and if you know someone will take spike damage in the next few seconds then wait for that and use it then.
    rejuev blanketing days are long gone esp preemtively
    nonetheless if you have a ton of mana left at the end of every hc progression kill then you are doing something wrong. You should have reforged some spirit into a throughput stat for a start .



    Not that i haven't done that...but if people are not taking unnecessary dmg, it means most likely i can save alot of time /afk (not that's the case).

    For example, H Will, people are not freak out when i always leave them ard 60% hp while progression, but they got use to it now (i focus only on raid while Holy Pally solo heal tank), at the end of the fight, i was left 60% mana, same goes with the Pally.
    And btw, i don't think i'm doing something wrong. There are only few reasons where people are complaining about mana. Number one reason is getting panic and you spam stuff, 2) people stuffing up. etc etc. There is no point of going lower in mana regen. In case of "oh shit" situation, that extra mana will mean either you kill the boss, or you wipe. Talking like you should reforge everything in to a "stats that is more important" only look good on paper, but in a real time raid, it's rather safe to have something to lay back on to spam (i have ~11k mana regen, 17% mastery, >5730 haste SOTF spec) . All resto guide is just to address what and why is the best stats, thats why it's called a guide.

  14. #14
    http://raidbots.com/comparebot/5113c...0007e1#summary

    This link will allow you to analyse things clearly.

    Both making some mistakes imo, mainly stuff that has already been mentioned.

    - Uptime on Harmony (Mastery) is low on both.
    - Shouldn't be using Nourish
    - Doesn't look like either has a NS+Healing Touch Macro
    - Lifebloom up time is low.
    - Increased LB uptime = more clearcasting procs.
    - More clearcasting procs = more free regrowths.
    - Free Regrowths = Improved throughput and less mana spent.
    - Innervate not being used optimally.

    There is a lot more that could be said but I'll leave you guys to figure it out. Comparebot is a really good tool though, take advantage.

  15. #15
    Moderator Sonnillon's Avatar
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    Well. We killed Empress last night. Here are the fresh logs. I do feel that Druid2 has improved. My co-tank said that it felt like having Druid1 along ^^
    Mari officer/RL/OT of Punished <- RECRUITING
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    The curse of the Bear, the only tank whose active mitigation not only has RNG included, but only consists of RNG.


  16. #16
    Just a quick question... did you change a resto druid onto tank healing duty? if so, thats why his mana is destroyed, druids have little to no efficient single target heals, apart from lifebloom, and if hes unlucky with OOC procs, spamming regrowth / rejuve / HT on a tank destroys their mana. Other than that, druid 2 is still 300 over haste cap. You can't really compare druids to any other healers atm mana wise either, from the first logs (windlord) posted it appears that druid1 sits back and relies more on the two other healers, whereas druid2 is more aggressive healing them up. Druid2 should therefore have a higher potential than druid1 once he sorts out mana conservation. good luck in the future

    another thing to note is, all your healers outgear the content so healing should never be an issue.

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