1. #1

    Protectors - Heroic or Heroic Elite for a First Kill

    Hi all,
    Wanted to opinions regarding going for protectors heroic or heroic elite for a first kill. Our raid is split between reading that protectors on heroic elite is easier than on heroic and so we should jump straight to that rather than kill it on "normal heroic".

    My concern is that one of our two healers (monk) is not that well geared, and that our strongest DPSers (ie top 25 ranking) are playing lower sustained single target damage classes (ie boomkin, elesham and SP). This, combined with dropping one DPS for a tank on heroic elite (and also lessening vengeance DPS) makes me concerned that we will run into overwhelming healing requirements on the last boss considering the monk's gear.

    Can you please share your opinons regarding why heroic elite is easier than normal heroic (and why). And whether what Im saying is actually a problem for heroic elite or not?

    Our comp will be something like:
    DPS:
    Shadowpriest
    Elesham
    Boomkin
    Arcane Mage
    Rogue
    Hunter
    Lock

    Healers
    Disc
    Monk (slightly undergeared)

    Tank
    Warrior or Blood DK

    We have the option of the DK going DPS if there is a specific reason for it, but DPS will be lower in this case.

    Thanks for any help

  2. #2
    Protectors elite hm definitely not easier, but because almost all guilds in world kill it after normal hm and know how to deal with adds, how to dispell before 1st tick, how to stack and manage the stacks and how important interrupting is - because all of these elite hm kill much easier to them then 1st kill of normal hm.

    If you jump right after normal elite to heroic elite you are gonna get raped I think.

  3. #3
    Bloodsail Admiral Chrispotter's Avatar
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    Im sure your warlock is awesome enough that you can go straight for elite heroic

  4. #4
    Heroic elite is way harder than heroic normal.

  5. #5
    Maybe I'm missing something, but doesn't Heroic Elite have a higher DPS requirement, higher healing requirement, and a higher amount of required coordination and movement?

    I would give the base Heroic version a few attempts before going all-in. I think you're over-thinking/over-analyzing this.

  6. #6
    You need to do "normal" Heroic mode first. Heroic elite is like going from 0 to 60.

  7. #7
    Thanks for the replies so far. I am still curious to understand why you say you have to do one before the other. By contrast, Elite protectors was certainly do-able without doing it normal first, so following the nerf to heroic elite, Im trying to understand why you can't just go straight to heroic elite mode

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Dubalicious View Post
    Maybe I'm missing something, but doesn't Heroic Elite have a higher DPS requirement, higher healing requirement, and a higher amount of required coordination and movement?

    I would give the base Heroic version a few attempts before going all-in. I think you're over-thinking/over-analyzing this.
    Not really. DPS requirement is the same (no more adds spawns, bosses do not have more HP), healing requirement is more intense in Phase 2, but less intense in Phase 3 (kaolan's touch is never going to tick for the 250K+ you can experience Asani's aoe raiddamage), and only slightly higher on the coordination side. Melee has to move more, too, true. But the basics are still the same - make sure soaking group is closest to add, everyone else GTFO.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by SantaMaria View Post
    Thanks for the replies so far. I am still curious to understand why you say you have to do one before the other. By contrast, Elite protectors was certainly do-able without doing it normal first, so following the nerf to heroic elite, Im trying to understand why you can't just go straight to heroic elite mode
    because original heroic elite was just flat out not possible.
    normal elite was probably undertuned if anything.

    if you look at wol heroic elite has much fewer kills than heroic sha http://worldoflogs.com/zones/Terrace_of_Endless_Spring/

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    Not really. DPS requirement is the same (no more adds spawns, bosses do not have more HP), healing requirement is more intense in Phase 2, but less intense in Phase 3 (kaolan's touch is never going to tick for the 250K+ you can experience Asani's aoe raiddamage), and only slightly higher on the coordination side. Melee has to move more, too, true. But the basics are still the same - make sure soaking group is closest to add, everyone else GTFO.
    Awesome, great points. I guess the next question is - how much does having experience with 'normal' Heroic help with the Heroic Elite version? Because I know our normal Heroic kills can get pretty hectic in the final phase. Really hoping we give this a shot tonight, but I have a feeling it might not happen until next week (since the prospect of our first 2-night raid week is pretty attractive lol)

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-06 at 10:39 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by SantaMaria View Post
    I am still curious to understand why you say you have to do one before the other.
    I think they're referring to the fact that it would be "greatly beneficial" to do 'normal' Heroic first, not that you are necessarily "gated" from attempting it.

    I tend to agree with that sentiment, but the choice is yours =)
    Last edited by Dubalicious; 2013-02-06 at 05:39 PM.

  11. #11
    We have had Heroic Protectors on farm for the last 3 weeks and in the meantime have also killed Heroic Sha. We are just now starting Heroic Elite Protectors and although the fight seems quite doable and relatively easy it wouldn't have been from the get go if we had started with it. Seems like we are on the edge of enough raid dps to do it with 3 healers so we might have to drop down to 2 healing it along with some subtle changes to how we approach the boss.

    It is no easy fight by far and the dps/hps requirement of the fight is pretty insane. Interrupts have to be spot on and the level of skill is so much higher that it seems almost like a new fight entirely.

    With all of that being said it still might only take a good 30 attempts to go from normal Heroic Protectors to Heroic Elite Protectors.

  12. #12
    I'd rather do heroic elite for the sole reason that i wont have to interupt as long -.-; but the last phase looks much scarrier there than normal heroic.

  13. #13
    Dreadlord Choice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    Not really. DPS requirement is the same (no more adds spawns, bosses do not have more HP), healing requirement is more intense in Phase 2, but less intense in Phase 3 (kaolan's touch is never going to tick for the 250K+ you can experience Asani's aoe raiddamage), and only slightly higher on the coordination side. Melee has to move more, too, true. But the basics are still the same - make sure soaking group is closest to add, everyone else GTFO.
    That's not entirely true, with NM you have the advantage of two phases of Purified Waters and are stationary for the entire encounter. Not to mention the inherent need for two tanks. We've had the fight down for 4 weeks now and I see no way that the fight in it's current version could be done prior to any ToES progression, and if it could it simply wouldn't be worth it.

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