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  1. #61
    The Patient deadllbolt's Avatar
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    Well, it's been pretty much proven over and over again that blizzard has always and will always favor the horde. It's out and out blatant. Metzen especially. I do have to say though, so far, this expansion has been fairly well neutral. And it's about time. With 90s on each side of things, i can't determine a clear winner during this expansion as far as the favoritism battle goes. Hopefully the horde boner blizz has is going soft. But too soon to tell.
    "You are not prep--" *ROGUE BURNS PREPARATION* "Aw shit."

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Hardstyler01 View Post
    WotLK obviously favored Alliance, since pretty much all lore centered around the Alliance: Tirion, Arthas, Muradin, Frost Dwarves, Vrykul, Mechgnomes, you name it.
    Tirion - Not Alliance lore. Human =/ Alliance
    Arthas - Also not Alliance lore. He isn't human or even part of the alliance. He also has as much connection to the Horde through the Forsaken as he does to the Alliance.
    Muradin - A horrible ret con, but Alliance lore non the less.
    Frost Dwarves - These tie in with Muradin, don't try to count something twice.
    Vrykul - Progenitor race of humans, Val'kyr = undead/forsaken
    Mechgnomes - Taunka

    So of the 6 things you listed 2 are flat out not alliance lore, 1 is only alliance lore, 1 is a repeated, 1 is arguably part alliance part horde and the last item has a direct counter part on the horde side. That seems like a fairly neutral expansion to me.

  3. #63
    All I know is Alliance is better than horde in every faucet. I mean even in factions colors, everyone knows red is "aggressive" which is why all the kids who get picked on and made fun of join it. The Horde have green baby Jesus because they lack any real character development. Human racial. The only thing the Horde is good for is being a bunch of babies, they cry worse than alliance when they don't get their way, its embarrassing.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    Actually a single lion could on account of a single lion can and has defended against packs of HYENAS which are far bigger, stronger, and nastier than any wolf could ever hope to be. Lions don't need endurance, they could literally smash a wolf in half with one swipe

    Not really. You watch a nature film and see a pack of wolves take down a buffalo you don't realise that 10+ other times, an individual buffalo drove them off and probably killed one goring it or stomping on it. Wolves aren't successful hunters and haven't any power at an individual level, unlike a 500+ lb lion -.-
    You should really do some research on the success rate of a Lion's attacks. A vast majority of their attempted kills fail, and their pret simply runs away.

    About 2%. That is the statistical likelihood of a lone lion getting a kill. A group coordinated effort increases that chance to somewhere just shy of 30%. Wolves are better hunters. Wolves have less competition as predators, but they also have considerably less prey to choose from compared to a lion. A majority of lion hunts end with the lion exhausted and kill-less. If a wolf cannot take down a prey through prowess, they tend to work their prey into exhaustion. While a wolf has a similarly low success rate for some of their prey, on average, the wolf's success rate is MUCH higher, even as individuals.

    The simple truth is that Lions are embarrassingly terrible hunters, relying on opportunity over everything else.

    A wolfpack's method of hunting SPECIFICALLY targets a lion's biggest short coming. The wolves would keep their distance long enough to avoid the bites and the swipes of the lion, generally feigning attacks dodging the lion's counters to quicken the process of exhausting the lion.

    As for hyenas, the biggest wolf, the gray wolf, is bigger than the biggest hyena, the spotted hyena. There are a couple other species of both. The smaller species of both would have the hyenas having the advantage. A fight between a gray and a spotted could literally go either way. That being said, spotted hyenas are even better hunters than wolves. And while the skill and coordination of the hyena clan has a lot to do with it, a single lion taking on a hyena clan successful is rare. Hyenas also have different hunting tactics than wolves.

    Don't get me wrong. Lions are awesome animals. But tossing any variables aside, a wolf pack could take one down. A lion can easily take down a wolf. A pride of lions can easily take down a pack of wolves. A single lion would be lucky to survive an attack form a pack of wolves.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaelsino View Post
    I don't think they've ever "favoured" the Horde more so much as they simply enjoy writing it more. They have more room for development, having convinced themselves that the Alliance is in (in Metzen's own words) "lawful good overdrive" and can only ever be the heroes.

    And it shows.
    What else can they do ? If they make a character morally greyish like Jaina in the 5.1 quests you have hordes of alliance players that argue for hundreds of pages that everything she did was just and righteous. Many alliance players want to be in lawful good overdrive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alixie View Post
    I can see the ending now. We "invade" Orgrimmar but are forbidden to attack ANYONE besides Garrosh and maybe a few nameless NPCs that are Garrosh loyalists. Before we get the killing blow, GO'EL descends upon high with glowing green light and accompanied by a choir to stop us in order to give Garrosh a lecture. Then Garrosh pulls a Vanessa Van Cleef, and Jaina mass ports out the Alliance army, becuase Garrosh is dead and she has no reason to hate the horde anymore, since Garrosh is the scapegoat for the entire fraction's war crimes.
    So how would you do it if you had to design the ending ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    And now we got super duper prince Anduin running around pandaria doing goodie good things.
    After green Jesus now we got the real Jesus. He even came back from the dead (sortof).

  6. #66
    Posting in a Jaylock thread.

    Infracted.
    Last edited by Zaelsino; 2013-02-07 at 12:28 AM.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by stumpy View Post
    Posting in a Jaylock thread.
    Thanks for the heads up, saves me the bother of going to the OP and seeing that name.

    Jaylock... Just... Heh. Yeah.

    And the answer is no. 'Balance' is what Blizzard is trying to do.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Khaza-R View Post
    In all fairness, its impossible to judge at this point. Horde lore will obviously be backloaded this expansion because their will have to be significant lore revolving around a new Warchief.
    This, MOP as it develops is VERY much a Horde storyline, especially focussing on its leaders and the fall of Garrosh. Even Jaina and her story are secondary to the story of Garrosh doing these atrocities in the first place and falling more and more into his bad ways.

    Aliance story is kinda tacked on, so in places feels horribly contrived. Anduin running round Pandaria while I was questing made me genuinely want to beat the little shit, and not even mentioning Tyrande, who's been leading the sentinels for 10'000 years or so, forgetting all of her battle strategy skills and being shown up by Varian so he can have his whole "High King" story.

    10'000 years.. and now she has the strategic battle skills of a stoned hippy.

  9. #69
    New Kid Zaelsino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yriel View Post
    What else can they do ? If they make a character morally greyish like Jaina in the 5.1 quests you have hordes of alliance players that argue for hundreds of pages that everything she did was just and righteous.
    White knights aside though, the sort of discussion that sparked isn't a bad thing. This sort of talk (who was in the right regarding the Ashenvale/Alterac Valley/Northrend/whatever conflict) is what fueled lore debate for years. MoP kind of killed it by giving us a clear villain (no one's going to be arguing about the ethics of the Org invasion, let's be honest), but that whole Dalaran fiasco certainly gave us a grey and two-sided story. It's positive for the lore overall imo.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Fayolynn View Post
    Tirion - Not Alliance lore. Human =/ Alliance
    Arthas - Also not Alliance lore. He isn't human or even part of the alliance. He also has as much connection to the Horde through the Forsaken as he does to the Alliance.
    Muradin - A horrible ret con, but Alliance lore non the less.
    Frost Dwarves - These tie in with Muradin, don't try to count something twice.
    Vrykul - Progenitor race of humans, Val'kyr = undead/forsaken
    Mechgnomes - Taunka

    So of the 6 things you listed 2 are flat out not alliance lore, 1 is only alliance lore, 1 is a repeated, 1 is arguably part alliance part horde and the last item has a direct counter part on the horde side. That seems like a fairly neutral expansion to me.
    please dont be one of those people who try to say arthas and tirion dont count as alliance lore >_<

    arthas, former crown prince of lordaeron and best friend to varian wrynn almost a brother to him and were raised together, former lover of jaina proudmoore, and former member of the knights of the silver hand.

    tirion really shouldnt even have to be explained either, hes an old alliance hero.

    saying they dont count as alliance lore is like saying kael'thas didnt count as a blood elf because he became evil or that varian isnt alliance because he hung out with some horde races when he was a slave.

    and as was stated earlier everyone knows the forsaken plotline just ended at wrathgate, they got no final payback or revenge and the blood elves didnt do anything except argue with some high elves in order to let the horde enter dalaran.

    also the forsaken didnt have ANY relationship with the val'kyr until cata so i dont even know what type of point you're trying to make there
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  11. #71
    Oh stop it. If that were the case alliance rogues etc wouldn't be getting nerfed. This entire blizzard favors (enter alliance or horde here) garbage needs to stop. How about this? Blizzard favors World of Warcraft because its their cash cow right now and they will do anything in game to push it further along and appeal to a greater audience?
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy." -Alexander Tytler

  12. #72
    Not really. I don't think they are favoring any faction at the moment, but actually giving some camera-time to the Alliance, which they were severely lacking in Cataclysm... I am Horde, and I played through the 1-60 in Alliance, and honestly the feelling is that Alliance were getting their butts kicked big time.

    What annoys me, is that Horde has to look evil for Alliance to shine...

    I think Blizzard has to work Alliance lore a big better so they don't really require Horde as the bad guys.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    please dont be one of those people who try to say arthas and tirion dont count as alliance lore >_<

    arthas, former crown prince of lordaeron and best friend to varian wrynn almost a brother to him and were raised together, former lover of jaina proudmoore, and former member of the knights of the silver hand.

    tirion really shouldnt even have to be explained either, hes an old alliance hero.

    saying they dont count as alliance lore is like saying kael'thas didnt count as a blood elf because he became evil or that varian isnt alliance because he hung out with some horde races when he was a slave.

    and as was stated earlier everyone knows the forsaken plotline just ended at wrathgate, they got no final payback or revenge and the blood elves didnt do anything except argue with some high elves in order to let the horde enter dalaran.

    also the forsaken didnt have ANY relationship with the val'kyr until cata so i dont even know what type of point you're trying to make there
    Ignoring/down playing Arthas' connection to the Forsaken doesn't make the connection any less relevant. I will revise Arthas from not being Alliance lore to not only being Alliance lore.

    True, I forgot the Forsaken didn't nab the Val'kyr till Cata. :-P I will admit I was completely wrong on that account.

    Tirion however 100% is not Alliance lore. That isn't to say its Horde lore either. Being part of the Alliance in the past does not make his story Alliance lore now. With that Argument, every thing Thrall does becomes Alliance lore even when it doesn't involve the Alliance at all due to him being an there slave in the past. Or even that the Blood Elves, who I think we can agree is entirely a Horde faction now, are Alliance lore due to them coming from the High Elves prior to WoW. If you want to take this a step further than everything Night Elves could possibly be Horde lore due to the fact that they may have come from Trolls. Using the past to classify lore can get ridiculous pretty quickly.

    So with his connection to the Alliance in the past not making him Alliance now what makes Tirion Alliance Lore? How exactly do Tirion's actions advance the Alliance story?

  14. #74
    Nah, remember once they get rid of Garrosh, King Dildo Wrynn will reclaim his throne as most insufferable faction leader.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-07 at 02:44 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Fayolynn View Post
    Tirion - Not Alliance lore. Human =/ Alliance
    Arthas - Also not Alliance lore. He isn't human or even part of the alliance. He also has as much connection to the Horde through the Forsaken as he does to the Alliance.
    Muradin - A horrible ret con, but Alliance lore non the less.
    Frost Dwarves - These tie in with Muradin, don't try to count something twice.
    Vrykul - Progenitor race of humans, Val'kyr = undead/forsaken
    Mechgnomes - Taunka

    So of the 6 things you listed 2 are flat out not alliance lore, 1 is only alliance lore, 1 is a repeated, 1 is arguably part alliance part horde and the last item has a direct counter part on the horde side. That seems like a fairly neutral expansion to me.
    It's pretty easy to see that Blizzard is Horde favored when you cherry pick all the arguments.
    Your comments are duly noted and ignored.
    I punch a hobo every time someone says 'it's not a rotation it's a priority list lol'.

  15. #75
    Scarab Lord Loaf Lord's Avatar
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    Why are we comparing real life lions vs wolves? The orc wolf/worg is fucking huge.

  16. #76
    was wondering when this stupid topic would pop up, and it still a dead horse of foolishness
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  17. #77
    Stood in the Fire Shibuya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    All of that is subjective...I don't see how you have any empirical evidence.
    Yes, we know it's subjective. The OP was asking for people's opinions.

    Get off your high horse.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhozul View Post
    Having played through both sides, different factions shine in different places.

    The Horde, for example, have a much better interaction with Lorewalker Cho in the Jade Forest. Aside from that questline, however, I found that the Alliance Jade Forest was much better than the Horde Jade Forest. The Alliance has a reason to be there; they're looking for Anduin. The Horde is basically only fighting the Alliance to have something to bring back to Garrosh when he finds out that his new airship has been completely totaled.

    In Krarasang, the competition is close. The Horde's storyline with Sunwalker Dezco is very heartfelt, but it sort of tapers off after you do the final showdown with the Mogu, leading to the orc officer's death. The Alliance storyline has a very unimpressive beginning, but the sacrifice at the end of the Incursion storyline is so touching that overall it leaves a much bigger impact than Dezco's storyline. Both father and daughter are so obsessed with their goals that they both lose sight of what's important, and as a result they lose each other for it. Dezco's twins is an interesting storyline, but we never see how the death of his wife affects him; he only see him stoically pressing forward without ever showing remorse or sorrow or even talking much about his boys ever again.

    Kun-Lai is lackluster all around. It suffers heavily from having too many stories to tell and not enough time to tell them. The Horde and Alliance camps go absolutely nowhere; they just sit there and train. Its a waste of time for both parties involved.

    In 5.1, its difficult to pick Alliance over Horde and vice versa. The Horde storyline is very much about watching the Horde crumble from underneath Garrosh. All of their quests have the Horde almost entirely on the defensive except for one daily hub where you attack Lion's Landing. The Alliance, on the other hand, is almost entirely on the offensive despite being called Operation: Shield Wall. They're ahead of the Horde at every turn and they deal significant damage. Where the Horde is killing people and stealing supplies, the Alliance is destroying everything from oil rigs to supplies to major officers. They're using crazy new techniques and strategies and freakish gnome UFOs to abduct vital Horde resources. In terms of who's winning the war, you never feel like you're winning Horde side and Alliance side you feel like you're crushing the Horde easily.

    Despite this, the Horde story quests are much more powerful than the Alliance ones, especially where Lor'themar is involved. You can really feel Lor'themar's frustration, like he's caught between a rock and a hard place. Vol'jin' story is short and sweet, clearly he's being set up for bigger and better things and the Chen cameo was very much appreciated. Alliance side is a lot of debate and turmoil. The storyline is about figuring out the Horde's goals and blocking them, which you very clearly do. Garrosh's big "victory" wasn't even a victory; he hurt Anduin, but he's not dead. Garrosh underestimates everyone, from the Alliance to his own allies which is a common theme of both sides of the story. Varian's transformation is somewhat sudden mostly because none of his character development in the books is ever shown in-game. He's just super nice and patient out of left field, which understandably frazzles players. I'm always confused by why Alliance players call foul when Varian dismisses you to take care of his son. Why? Because he's a warrior, he's not allowed to love his kid? I honestly think that as much as people dislike Anduin for his naivety, Anduin's presence is what has always kept Varian from becoming Garrosh. The love of a family is the one thing Garrosh has absolutely never known and I would not be surprised if its referenced at his death scene.

    Now the real question is: Who gets the killing blow on Garrosh canon-wise? Is it Vol'jin, who sore to be the one who kills him in Cataclysm, or Varian, who swears over Anduin's broken body, or Jaina, who swears while tripping on arcane magic? Only time will tell!
    Just finished leveling to 90 on both factions and doing the daily hubs and would agree with this 100%. Overall I felt the Alliance had a more fulfilling story as far as complexity so far, however I feel the horde story hasn't reached it's peak yet.

  19. #79
    Moderator aiko-chan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    No, it really isn't. And this isn't bias. The fact the alliance is pitted against a faction who has black metallic spikes from there buildings, has the color red as its main color, uses wolves and kodos for mounts instead of ponies and cats, it really is just a case the horde has more 'cooler' elements to it.

    The horde is savage, wild and holds honor and aggression to its name. The alliance is prideful, arrogant and firm. And all I'm saying is it is so much easier to make one of these appear cooler and more badass then the other, the other requiring more effort to do so.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-06 at 09:19 PM ----------


    And now we got super duper prince Anduin running around pandaria doing goodie good things.
    lol
    No offense but this is pretty much the definition of bias. You don't get to decide what's "cool" for everybody else. You say those things make the Horde "cool", someone else might say it makes them savage monsters.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Screwtape View Post
    It's pretty easy to see that Blizzard is Horde favored when you cherry pick all the arguments.
    Who cherry picked arguments to make blizzard seem pro Horde? I'm just confused because you quoted my rebuttal to someone who was making the claim that Wrath was completely about the Alliance. Nowhere did I say they were pro Horde. :-P
    Last edited by Fayolynn; 2013-02-07 at 03:56 AM.

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