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  1. #41
    They may be available in 5.3, though.
    Quote Originally Posted by apepi View Post
    Trying to undetstand this, the upgrades provide 104% and 107% extra crit, I thought if it is 100% then you will always crit? Or because of our level a 100% would not be good enough for bosses and be really like 93%?
    The trinket will bring you above 100% crit anyway, unless you somehow manage to have 0% or less crit without the proc.. It's probably just an automated script that generates the upgraded versions.

  2. #42
    Can someone of you make some constructive post on the PTR thread about NG and its outdated mechanism and design? Or at least post a post from me about it on the US Forum (Y ME EU??!)? NG annoys the fuck out of me lately The "core" of all (well, most) problems

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberowl View Post
    Can someone of you make some constructive post on the PTR thread about NG and its outdated mechanism and design? Or at least post a post from me about it on the US Forum (Y ME EU??!)? NG annoys the fuck out of me lately The "core" of all (well, most) problems
    An issue currently I think the devs haven't figured out yet:
    If you make NG more consistent (kinda like baking it into Eclispe, for example), which mechanic you have left do you have that somehow "forces" you to move to the next Eclipse (stated as part of their main design for Balance Druids on the Beta)?

    I have some ideas (if NG becomes a permanent part of Eclipse):
    - Consume mana while you are in Eclipse... makes AC [which does not require mana] and Innervate [which regens mana] more useful for the spec, but will require more mana rebalancing, specially for our already expensive mana tecniques and also removes a bit of innervate utility for healers, and probably make the innervate Glyph somewhat obligatory. I'm not much into progressive raiding, but the innervate utility cannot be understimated anyway. Also constrains the possibility of providing heals and assistance because of the mana consumption, which might actually nerf more the Moonkins on PvP.
    - Make every ability produce Eclipse energy... which might colide a bit with the switch from Hurricane to Astral Storm, and I don't think the devs would like to make our AoE Spellstorm. Besides, LS 4.2 was a mess, except maybe for Random PvP and even then, you did more pressure in organized PvP by keeping Solar Eclipse, even without NG on you, except when maybe scoring for a kill.

    Still we would have the Lunar for Single and Solar for AoE design, btw, which is another beast on it's own.

    Don't get me wrong, actually I would like to see Balance Druids with more sustained AoE and less DPS Penalty when moving, but first these problems should be solved first.

    Either way, a fix like this would be a huge change on our class, which is something left for an expansion.

  4. #44
    Moderator Stommped's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fountaiin View Post
    Is it confirmed whether or not crit scales dynamically or snapshot with dots for moonkin? I honestly don't know.

    Apparently it's snapshot for shadow-priests, so the trinket is broken for them. I don't know about warlocks or fire-mages.
    We know our dots do scale dynamically with Crit, this was proven for sure back when we had the T11 4pc. It would not make any sense at all for the dots of other classes to behave differently, but I don't have a shadow priest and if that's what Iapeto says then I guess I believe him.

    I believe in Kun Lai Summit there is those dolls spread around a kobold camp. One of the dolls increases your crit chance by 100% for about 30 seconds. You can use this doll to apply a dot a couple seconds before the buff falls off and you will notice the ticks no longer crit once the buff falls off completely. I would love for someone to try this with a shadow priest alt they have because if that's true it's both broken and stupid.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-11 at 11:18 AM ----------

    Also, it is important to mention that Mastery also updates dynamically (unless this has been changed in MoP), however since our Mastery grants extra % damage while in Eclipse, and things like damage/haste/spower are snapshots it essentially makes Mastery a snapshot stat, even though it really isn't. This will be important when we get the T15 4pc bonus, you can apply a dot at the tail end of NG/Mastery buff and retain the extra damage throughout the duration of the dot (assuming of course you were in Eclipse when you applied it).
    Last edited by Stommped; 2013-02-11 at 05:18 PM.

  5. #45
    My fix for NG would be every time Hurricane/Astral Storm damages 4 or more targets its duration gets extended by X amount of seconds. That way AOE isnt garbage and the core of it on single target remains exactly the same.

    I dont see how anyone can say 9% buff is overkill, the single target damage of moonkins outside of burst was pretty weak, package that along with arguably the worst movement DPS of any ranged and you are left with an overall sup-par dps spec.
    Last edited by Jibjabb; 2013-02-11 at 05:27 PM.

  6. #46
    Given that Blizz isn't really happy with casters being able to do so much movement DPS, i don't really see them trying to increase ours any more, either. More likely they'll try to bring the others down to our level.

  7. #47
    I'd love to see us get a better Mastery, damage increase Mastery's are so boring.

    I also think Balance needs reworking, we should choose which Eclipse we want to be in using Astral Communion. Lunar should focus on single target with Moonfire, Starfire, maybe have a cleave, and Solar should be for multidotting / AoE with Sunfire, Hurricane and... INSECT SWARM! Abilities should generate energy up to 100, at 100 we can cast Starsurge which is a guranteed crit and hits for a lot. Damage is split between targets when in Solar.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Stommped View Post
    We know our dots do scale dynamically with Crit, this was proven for sure back when we had the T11 4pc. It would not make any sense at all for the dots of other classes to behave differently, but I don't have a shadow priest and if that's what Iapeto says then I guess I believe him.

    I believe in Kun Lai Summit there is those dolls spread around a kobold camp. One of the dolls increases your crit chance by 100% for about 30 seconds. You can use this doll to apply a dot a couple seconds before the buff falls off and you will notice the ticks no longer crit once the buff falls off completely. I would love for someone to try this with a shadow priest alt they have because if that's true it's both broken and stupid.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-11 at 11:18 AM ----------

    Also, it is important to mention that Mastery also updates dynamically (unless this has been changed in MoP), however since our Mastery grants extra % damage while in Eclipse, and things like damage/haste/spower are snapshots it essentially makes Mastery a snapshot stat, even though it really isn't. This will be important when we get the T15 4pc bonus, you can apply a dot at the tail end of NG/Mastery buff and retain the extra damage throughout the duration of the dot (assuming of course you were in Eclipse when you applied it).
    Yeah I knew they dynamic with t11 4p, but I wasn't sure if something had changed somehow.

    It almost seems ironic. When I looked at the 100% crit trinket I thought, we're the only caster that strongly favors crit this is going to be great, and then I realize every other caster has snap-shot crit on their dots, so SPriests will be broken with it and apparitions, and warlocks will be able to soul-burn soul swap 100% crit dots on every time it procs too, so we might get this thing last.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by quikbunny View Post
    I'd love to see us get a better Mastery, damage increase Mastery's are so boring.

    I also think Balance needs reworking, we should choose which Eclipse we want to be in using Astral Communion. Lunar should focus on single target with Moonfire, Starfire, maybe have a cleave, and Solar should be for multidotting / AoE with Sunfire, Hurricane and... INSECT SWARM! Abilities should generate energy up to 100, at 100 we can cast Starsurge which is a guranteed crit and hits for a lot. Damage is split between targets when in Solar.
    I dont want our rotation to be "to easy" but i do like the thought of solar being pure AOE dps burst and lunar being pure single target DPS. i do miss our moonfire / sunfire being the same spell and just changing on what eclipse when are in. Moonkin does need a look into but i dont think blizz will :P

  10. #50
    Zookeeper Sunfyre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shyzhi View Post
    I dont want our rotation to be "to easy" but i do like the thought of solar being pure AOE dps burst and lunar being pure single target DPS. i do miss our moonfire / sunfire being the same spell and just changing on what eclipse when are in. Moonkin does need a look into but i dont think blizz will :P
    Moonfire/Sunfire being split is part of what gives us such DoT strength, I'm not sure why you would want to revert that. Unfortunately, a lot of the changes that need to happen to our spec are too big of an overhaul until 6.0. That's the problem with this class, they overhaul, the design ends up being poor and they can't make real fixes and just continue to band-aid it until they attempt again next expansion.

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  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kilma View Post
    I can tell you one thing... Unerring Vision of Lei Shen

    just broke all caster classes with DoTs - Starsurge Procs Galore, Warlocks with full set of DoTs that crit, Fire Mage with 100% crit combust?!?
    That's one of those trinkets that would most likely be used in PvP. And basically makes people roll human again for double trinket ._.

  12. #52
    Is this going love or on the PTR patch notes, or just something GC tweeted about?

    "Balance - Increased Starfire, Wrath and Starsurge by 9%."

  13. #53
    Moderator Stommped's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lezul View Post
    Is this going love or on the PTR patch notes, or just something GC tweeted about?

    "Balance - Increased Starfire, Wrath and Starsurge by 9%."
    Already mentioned in this thread earlier.

    I just tested the Crit updated dynamically thing with my warlock guild mate and I can confirm that ours (as we expected) do update dynamically and do not snapshot, however, the Warlock's dots DID snapshot. Then, for shits and giggles we tried DK dots and Spriest dots, and both of them were the same as the Warlock, snapshotting and not updating dynamically. I have no idea why our dots would behave differently but this obviously makes the trinket insanely good for them. For whatever reason our dots function differently from everyone else it appears.
    Last edited by Stommped; 2013-02-12 at 01:23 AM.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Lezul View Post
    Is this going love or on the PTR patch notes, or just something GC tweeted about?

    "Balance - Increased Starfire, Wrath and Starsurge by 9%."
    It's from the PTR Class and Set Bonus Issues discussion on the official forums.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stommped View Post
    Already mentioned in this thread earlier.

    I just tested the Crit updated dynamically thing with my warlock guild mate and I can confirm that ours (as we expected) do update dynamically and do not snapshot, however, the Warlock's dots DID snapshot. Then, for shits and giggles we tried DK dots and Spriest dots, and both of them were the same as the Warlock, snapshotting and not updating dynamically. I have no idea why our dots would behave differently but this obviously makes the trinket insanely good for them. For whatever reason our dots function differently from everyone else it appears.
    Bonerkill of the day...

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kilma View Post
    I can tell you one thing... Unerring Vision of Lei Shen

    just broke all caster classes with DoTs - Starsurge Procs Galore, Warlocks with full set of DoTs that crit, Fire Mage with 100% crit combust?!?
    To be honest I don't think it's such a great trinket (though still good). 4 seconds? With some bad luck that can give you 1 starfire to crit (and the 2 dots rolling atm). What if it procs while you have to move for a couple of seconds? Wasted on moonfire spam. Idk, since there are two good alternatives, Cha-Ye's Essence of Brilliance and Breath of the Hydra it remains to be seen what is the best in practice.
    Also it drops from the (second to on heroic) last boss, making the heroic version pretty useless for progress.

    However, if I am wrong this trinket can also be great if used correctly. Also the lfr/normal versions give 100% crit as well, making those both accesible and almost as attractive as the heroic version.

  17. #57
    I would love to see procced starsurge to not consume eclipsed energy (i.e. using a SS proc in eclipse does not move the bar).

    srsly, just change NG to be tied with eclipse and make procced starsurge not consume eclipsed energy, and we will have solar camping again <3

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by runey View Post
    and we will have solar camping again <3
    Congratulations. You found the reason this won't happen.

  19. #59
    Moderator Stommped's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fountaiin View Post
    Yeah I knew they dynamic with t11 4p, but I wasn't sure if something had changed somehow.

    It almost seems ironic. When I looked at the 100% crit trinket I thought, we're the only caster that strongly favors crit this is going to be great, and then I realize every other caster has snap-shot crit on their dots, so SPriests will be broken with it and apparitions, and warlocks will be able to soul-burn soul swap 100% crit dots on every time it procs too, so we might get this thing last.
    Well something needs to be (and will be) changed due to this trinket. Currently the T15 2 pc bonus for Shadow allows them extend duration of their SW:P and VT indefinitely with apparitions. So two 100% crit buffed dots can be extended indefinitely with good RNG with the apparitiion procs. During LFR testing on Sunday, our S priest said he had got both his dots up to a 5 min duration on Primodius (a fight with numerous player buffs) but still, a couple 5 min duration dots that crit every single tick is beyond broken.
    Last edited by Stommped; 2013-02-12 at 03:13 PM.

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