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  1. #1

    5.2 lights hammer pvp

    Honestly, how is this a realistic solution to rets problems. Great we get an snare at the expense of having even worse burst...great.

  2. #2
    I don't see it being anything at all to make us want to take it. Why give up the burst and healing for a snare that we can get without it?

    They would have to up the damage and healing by 20% and make it silence / root people standing in it for it to be useful.

  3. #3
    That would have been nice to have when we were working on Feng

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Simplistic View Post
    Honestly, how is this a realistic solution to rets problems. Great we get an snare at the expense of having even worse burst...great.
    There's your problem.

    You're looking for real answers to a real issue, when the Dev's state repeatedly that Ret (and other bottom tier specs) are in a "good place". Once they recognize, finally, that we are not in a good place, they give us this.

    What's ironic is that it frankly FURTHER BUFFS HOLY IN RBGs/GROUP PLAY by offering a non-killable Earthbind totem to a spec that, frankly, needs no help. No decent Ret will take this over H Prism, we can't afford to lose that burst. Holy, on the other hand, can toss this into the fray at a flag or group-fight, throw out decent heals from the back lines, and provide a decent snare.

    Sigh.
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    20k and counting...

  5. #5
    Not enough for me, as ret, to want to take it in pvp. It's a pretty pathetic attempt at making it look more attractive for Ret but failing twice over by making it look even better for Holy.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    Not enough for me, as ret, to want to take it in pvp. It's a pretty pathetic attempt at making it look more attractive for Ret but failing twice over by making it look even better for Holy.
    Yeah this is really sad, AoE snares are a dime a dozen. They need to change it to something that actually matters, such as a root, or maybe something like smokebomb where enemy players have a serious incentive to get out of the area of effect as quickly as possible. I'm so sick of their overly conservative attitude toward Ret, they make us feel like orphan boys begging Ebeneezer Scrooge for scraps of food.

  7. #7
    Might actually be good for RBGs though. As people have stated, AOE abilities is what people are looking for in RBGs. Get a DK to use Gorefiend's Grasp, and then smoke bomb from Rogues, and Light's Hammer to slow them to keep them from escaping too quickly.

    Problem is Holy Paladins can get this too, so it doesn't entice RBGs to still bring one. And yes, very bad for Arena.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Dukenukemx View Post
    Might actually be good for RBGs though. As people have stated, AOE abilities is what people are looking for in RBGs. Get a DK to use Gorefiend's Grasp, and then smoke bomb from Rogues, and Light's Hammer to slow them to keep them from escaping too quickly.

    Problem is Holy Paladins can get this too, so it doesn't entice RBGs to still bring one. And yes, very bad for Arena.
    AoE abilities are certainly what is sought in RBGS... but AoE snares are just too common. In the same scenario you can bring a Boomkin to smack a solar beam on top of the smokebomb and bring AoE roots rather than just snares... lol the Boomkin could even typhoon people back into the smokebomb if they get out... Ret feels like it's 2 expansions behind everyone else, the double-standards are just absurd.

  9. #9
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dukenukemx View Post
    Might actually be good for RBGs though. As people have stated, AOE abilities is what people are looking for in RBGs. Get a DK to use Gorefiend's Grasp, and then smoke bomb from Rogues, and Light's Hammer to slow them to keep them from escaping too quickly.

    Problem is Holy Paladins can get this too, so it doesn't entice RBGs to still bring one. And yes, very bad for Arena.
    Vortex and Mass Entanglement are 50x better than Light's Hammer for that, and as you said, if they really want it the Holy can bring it. Yet another thing they let Holy grab in the tree. Ret needs the self-healing from prism right now.

  10. #10
    Stood in the Fire Cronosmash's Avatar
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    It's a pretty pathetic attempt at making it look more attractive for Ret but failing twice over by making it look even better for Holy.
    Ret community can sign on that.
    Last edited by Cronosmash; 2013-02-06 at 01:38 AM.
    "I notice my rating actually boosts when I remember to have fun. Playing competitively while also enjoying yourself and focussing on having good games instead of getting rating is way more important.
    After 2.2k the fun devolves into a twisted realm suffering and despair and you will quit pvp from extreme traumatic stress and you will probably xfer to Moon Guard and join some Belf rp guild and become a prostitute in Silvermoon."by Clukclukbewm

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    Not enough for me, as ret, to want to take it in pvp. It's a pretty pathetic attempt at making it look more attractive for Ret but failing twice over by making it look even better for Holy.
    Yeah, holy cannot really ever afford to spec into Burden of Guilt, and they don't have Seal of Justice... so really this opens up great new options for Holy... while being absurdly underwhelming for Ret... any changes to the ability should be Ret only.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Cronosmash View Post
    Ret community can sign on that.
    @Crono Hey man big supporter of your thoughtful posts on the DPS/Pally forums. Keep it up. Contrary to what most pple think, I do believe they *are* taking our Ret problems into consideration. This "buff" is indication of that. It may be the wrong thing (for now) but there have been a few nice buffs to Ret survivability in the latest PTR. We're getting through, slowly.

    I know they'll never let throw awesome utility at melee for the sake of it, but I wish there was SOMETHING they could give Ret Pallies that makes a RBG leader say, "Hmm I need to get a Ret in here, our strat would work far better with them".

    Sick of being passed over for Death Grip, Solar Beam, Gateway, or the pure Damage of a warrior.

    Hell, I'm sick of applying for an RBG and getting "Are you Holy? No? Oops sorry, no space for you. I'd rather take this DK in blues instead"

    (Granted this is a problem of RBG leaders wanting "OP" abilities anyway, but I mostly blame the game, not the players)

  13. #13
    Stood in the Fire Cronosmash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Booniehat View Post
    @Crono Hey man big supporter of your thoughtful posts on the DPS/Pally forums. Keep it up. Contrary to what most pple think, I do believe they *are* taking our Ret problems into consideration. This "buff" is indication of that. It may be the wrong thing (for now) but there have been a few nice buffs to Ret survivability in the latest PTR. We're getting through, slowly.

    I know they'll never let throw awesome utility at melee for the sake of it, but I wish there was SOMETHING they could give Ret Pallies that makes a RBG leader say, "Hmm I need to get a Ret in here, our strat would work far better with them".

    Sick of being passed over for Death Grip, Solar Beam, Gateway, or the pure Damage of a warrior.

    Hell, I'm sick of applying for an RBG and getting "Are you Holy? No? Oops sorry, no space for you. I'd rather take this DK in blues instead"

    (Granted this is a problem of RBG leaders wanting "OP" abilities anyway, but I mostly blame the game, not the players)
    Hey man, thanks a LOT. Means a lot to me, really. I'm working really hard on this on Blizz forums. If you (and everyone) can, plz like/reply/quote the posts there that may get some more attention.

    The Selfless Healers self heal buff is one of the things I wrote on a topic on early PTR so things must be on they're eyes - so plz help there.


    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/search?f...esis&sort=time

    ---

    They do give strong habilities for melee: DK Grip and Rogue CC and Smoke. And there is a lot of them: Mass Dispel, Solar Beam, Ring of Peace, Ursol Vortex... there is some good Rets making some points about that. Just make the math, explain the logic and hope they'll fix so Ret becomes fun/competitive for the next season at least.
    "I notice my rating actually boosts when I remember to have fun. Playing competitively while also enjoying yourself and focussing on having good games instead of getting rating is way more important.
    After 2.2k the fun devolves into a twisted realm suffering and despair and you will quit pvp from extreme traumatic stress and you will probably xfer to Moon Guard and join some Belf rp guild and become a prostitute in Silvermoon."by Clukclukbewm

  14. #14
    TV glyph and SH buff are nice for us - no one will take blessed life though.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Booniehat View Post
    @Crono Hey man big supporter of your thoughtful posts on the DPS/Pally forums. Keep it up. Contrary to what most pple think, I do believe they *are* taking our Ret problems into consideration. This "buff" is indication of that. It may be the wrong thing (for now) but there have been a few nice buffs to Ret survivability in the latest PTR. We're getting through, slowly.

    I know they'll never let throw awesome utility at melee for the sake of it, but I wish there was SOMETHING they could give Ret Pallies that makes a RBG leader say, "Hmm I need to get a Ret in here, our strat would work far better with them".

    Sick of being passed over for Death Grip, Solar Beam, Gateway, or the pure Damage of a warrior.

    Hell, I'm sick of applying for an RBG and getting "Are you Holy? No? Oops sorry, no space for you. I'd rather take this DK in blues instead"

    (Granted this is a problem of RBG leaders wanting "OP" abilities anyway, but I mostly blame the game, not the players)
    Well I did propose a change for Devotion Aura instead of Hand of Sacrifice here: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...46?page=19#380

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Simplistic View Post
    TV glyph and SH buff are nice for us - no one will take blessed life though.
    Blessed Life might be good for PvE, where there are fights that stun, fear, or immobilize you. But for PvP it's a bad glyph. You have a 50% chance to get 1 Holy Power every 20 seconds? That doesn't sound useful at all in situations where you would be dead in less then 20 seconds, and even then you have a 50% chance? Glyph was certainly underwhelming to begin with, but there needs to be a 100% chance, or a much shorter cool down then 20 seconds.

    As for Lights Hammer, I do remember hearing that GhostCrawler talked about it being a snare instead of a 50% slow. They obviously went with the slow because a snare for Holy would be too much for them. Best idea would be to only allow Light's Hammer to snare for Ret and Prot, but not for Holy.

    Another idea would be to look back at Divine Storm's utility. The glyph for it is horrible even in raids where you can spam it for max effect. The notion that Divine Storm heals is long dead since WOTLK. Either change the glyph to allow Seals to proc multiple targets with DS, or have it slow or snare targets hit with it. It's not like Ret Paladins don't lose dps if they choose to use it on single targets in PvP anyway. So there will be downsides.

  17. #17
    High Overlord Trisrx's Avatar
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    I almost feel insulted that they even consider this a buff to ret.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Trisrx View Post
    I almost feel insulted that they even consider this a buff to ret.
    I second this feeling.

    Combined with the change to Hand of Sacrifice, it would appear to me that Blizz dev doesn't yet fully understand Ret challenges in PVP. It's not so much that the changes in and of themselves are bad per se, but either singularly or taken as a whole they don't improve our sustained damage (or ability to put pressure outside of long cooldowns), give us a unique tool/tool kit to create a "we need a ret" demand, or give us reliable defense (again, outside of our long CD, dispellable DS) so we have a better chance of surviving the DPS train that (at least in my experience) goes right for the Ret.
    http://www.zetbit.com/sig-1088014.jpg

  19. #19
    Funny part is a Frost dk can just spam Howling blast and apply the 50% snare via the frost fever disease combined with chillblains

  20. #20
    - We are going to buff Seal of Justice and Seal of Righteousness damage. Neither of these Seals is seeing enough use. Justice was always intended to be a strong PvP Seal, and it just isn't right now. We haven't solidified numbers yet - I'm just sharing our intent.


    Source - Still doesn't fix our problems though..

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