Thread: 5.2 soj pvp

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  1. #81
    so finally we have some proper sustain Dmg or does it still need some calculation?

  2. #82
    Scarab Lord Valarius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    there are questions over how the Seal will work with DP and HA, both of which appear to make SoJ useless whenever they proc.

    Going to have to think on it.

    EJL
    The stack is consumed each time you use TV. Your first TV (assuming you've waited for 5) will hit fairly hard. After that, if you're using HA you're only going to gain 1 stack between TVs (maybe 2 if you land an auto-hit in the same instant) which will be around 15k orso damage per TV. Now considering you have 2 GCDs to activate that added damage, compared to Truth you're losing a 10kish tick and at least 2 SoT procs in the same time-frame

    I think the best way to use Justice if you're HA is actually to stack Truth, swap and stack Justice (or the other way around, as long as they both end up at 5), pop your cools for a huge first TV then swap back to Truth until HA ends and you can gain more than 1 stack of Justice again.

    DP, meh. You're going to have TVs with a possible 0 stacks if you TV twice in a row.
    Last edited by Valarius; 2013-02-09 at 04:13 PM.

  3. #83
    What stacks the SoJ debuff? Auto attack? Any attack?

  4. #84
    Scarab Lord Valarius's Avatar
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    Same rules as Truth according to GC.

    All *melee* attacks.
    Last edited by Valarius; 2013-02-09 at 05:34 PM.

  5. #85
    Blademaster Icecold3000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Maybe....but the class loses a built in Snare (a poor one, but still), you end up forced to take BoG, and there are questions over how the Seal will work with DP and HA, both of which appear to make SoJ useless whenever they proc.

    Going to have to think on it.

    EJL
    Just as a way to mitigate the loss of our baseline snare from SoJ,
    GC need to add the following :*When a Paladin perform a Judgement using the PTR Seal of Justice can it Proc the Old Judgement of Justice effect (Woltk - Red Judgement)
    Remember, that one their effect was judge an enemy for 20 sec , preventing them from fleeing and limiting their movement speed.(doesn't count like a snare effect)

    With this will no longer be mandatory for Rets pick Burden of Guilt if we want a snare effect , and we can catch up mounted players in Bg`s.

    Consider Ret's history of not being able to snare/catch things, BUT in Wotlk we use to have Judgement of Justice (Red Judgement) and that was enough ... in that exp.
    Somebody supports my idea?

  6. #86
    Pandaren Monk
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    Burden of Guilt should be a glyph that lowers the damage of Judgement by like 20% but gives it a 50% snare(Ret only, or this is insane for Holy). BoG really doesn't and will never compete with Fist. Ret pretty much needs to pick Fist or our CC is terrible. BoG should be replaced in the tree with either a Root effect or a buff to blinding light or a new talent altogether.

    The new justice will be strong, I believe, but losing a snare sucks. Especially being the ONLY melee without one again. Even if we have to lose damage for it, I wouldn't mind.
    Or just make Crusader Strike snare, and make Justice also root the target for 2 seconds when we TV or something.

  7. #87
    Scarab Lord Valarius's Avatar
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    A Frozen Power type effect would be cool. If you use X ability from so far away it applies a root.

    Hell, even a glyph for Blinding Light that allows us to place it somewhere ala consecrate would be nice, and definitely help us on the CC front.

  8. #88
    `So a 125% weapon damage as a holy attack every few seconds... sounds kind of like old Seal of Command only more predictable.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Dukenukemx View Post
    What stacks the SoJ debuff? Auto attack? Any attack?
    right now in ptr it's pretty broken. don't bother trying it. currently only autoattack and cs proc it and refresh it, and it has a 15 second duration if not refreshed. tv does not proc the "justice" weap/holy dmg, and doesn't use the 5-stack. instead, it merely refreshes it. the ptr is due to reset in about 5 minutes, and i'll go back and see if it's working better.

    oh, and pvp power benefits pvp healing by 13% and some change right now. ret FoL heals for between 50k and 60k.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kraniel View Post
    right now in ptr it's pretty broken. don't bother trying it. currently only autoattack and cs proc it and refresh it, and it has a 15 second duration if not refreshed. tv does not proc the "justice" weap/holy dmg, and doesn't use the 5-stack. instead, it merely refreshes it. the ptr is due to reset in about 5 minutes, and i'll go back and see if it's working better.

    oh, and pvp power benefits pvp healing by 13% and some change right now. ret FoL heals for between 50k and 60k.
    Is that 50-60k including 30% Battle Fatigue?

    But I am hoping they fix it this time around so testing can be done on it. I'm really wondering how effective it will be.

  11. #91
    i apologize for not clarifying: i did not take this into a pvp scenario. from what i understand, bf is disabled in ptr currently, so no way to really be accurate. the 50k to 60k was merely me casting it on myself in a non-pvp scenario. 3-stack of selfless healer fol cast on somebody else yielded avg 100k (again, non-pvp scenario).

  12. #92
    Seal of Justice is still not doing any damage right now, but if it functions as it currently does where Judgment only refreshes the stack, Crusader Strike and auto attacks proc it but TV doesn't actually consume it, me likey. Highly doubt it will function like this when it's fixed though.

  13. #93
    I wonder if TV will stack it the way it currently procs SoJ on live. So basically right after you consume 5 stacks, the TV that consumed them already puts you back at 1 stack... hopefully it will, but this might a bit too generous. Anyway the current version is totally messed up as previously mentioned, it's not supposed to be magic and it's supposed to last 15 sec not 8.

    By the way the new snare on Light's Hammer is a bit better than I though it would be. It looks like it will not be magical, and it is re-applied every 2 seconds, making it difficult to get rid of with emancipate, roll/fsk, and other snare breaks. It really is pretty top notch as far as snares go, but once again it's probably not enough to get us into RBGs.
    Last edited by Tangra; 2013-02-09 at 11:17 PM.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valarius View Post
    The stack is consumed each time you use TV. Your first TV (assuming you've waited for 5) will hit fairly hard. After that, if you're using HA you're only going to gain 1 stack between TVs (maybe 2 if you land an auto-hit in the same instant) which will be around 15k orso damage per TV. Now considering you have 2 GCDs to activate that added damage, compared to Truth you're losing a 10kish tick and at least 2 SoT procs in the same time-frame

    DP, meh. You're going to have TVs with a possible 0 stacks if you TV twice in a row.
    Yeah....the Seal looks like it devalues two talents, and ensures little true choice with Tier 2.

    EJL

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Yeah....the Seal looks like it devalues two talents, and ensures little true choice with Tier 2.

    EJL
    Pretty much all of the 5.2 buffs are outrageously terrible in terms of providing real choices between talents.

    1) Flash of Light buff makes Selfless Healer mandatory.
    2) Hand of Sacrifice buff makes Clemency even more mandatory.
    3) Justice change makes Burden of Guilt very difficult to pass up (I can't believe Ghostcrawler gave us the same crap excuse we have been getting since tBC he said, more or less,"everyone else has a snare so your partner's will bring it anyway", well if pretty much everyone has one, then just give us a freaking baseline snare)... without Fist of Justice Ret quite literally might have the worst CC of any spec in the game.

    Even if we are good in 5.2 somehow, we can still be assured that this spec will never receive proper attention and will constantly be subject to badly designed band-aids. We barely have any optional talents any more, which completely clashes with their philosophy on talents. They might fix some problems, but in the grand scheme things the changes make Ret an even worse spec, albeit perhaps more playable.
    Last edited by Tangra; 2013-02-10 at 12:20 AM.

  16. #96
    Scarab Lord Valarius's Avatar
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    And that, Tangra, is why I will never play Ret main spec ever again.

  17. #97
    High Overlord Strear's Avatar
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    Honestly, I always get the feeling that nobody's ever happy, even before they tried the new tools we've got. Let's try in situation, and then we'll talk. I too have the feeling that most players speak from an Arena point of view, so it's hard for me to get it as I don't care much about arenas. They're setting up some changes, that may not be right for now, but let's help them adjust these instead of always reacting like an angry old man (or woman ). Let's encourage the devs, for one time they're giving us some attention, let's try what they give us and give them some real feedback.
    Last edited by Strear; 2013-02-10 at 07:46 AM.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strear View Post
    Honestly, I always get the feeling that nobody's ever happy, even before they tried the new tools we've got.
    The class has been here before. Players weren't happy with the Seals in beta, but Blizzard launched with them. Now, the issues players spotted then are again rearing their heads.

    As it is, the new Seal design appears slightly interesting and has some potential.

    Against this must be balanced the loss of an integral snare, the near mandatory requirement to use BoG in Tier 2 thus wrecking Blizzard ideas of "choice" and the devaluation of two important talents.

    As for SoR - I'm still trying to recall the last time I felt switching to an AoE Seal was actually worth it.....if the old Seal didn't really cut it at 6 (they died too quickly to make it worthwhile) will having to switch at 4 targets make much of a difference now?

    Let's encourage the devs, for one time they're giving us some attention, let's try what they give us and give them some real feedback.
    Trying what they give us isn't really necessary to point out the incredibly obvious and glaring flaws in the design. Giving feedback is OK, but Blizzard tends to listen to it months after its of any value. The new Seals may work out in practise, but right now they don't seem that attractive given their flaws.

    EJL

  19. #99
    High Overlord Strear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    As for SoR - I'm still trying to recall the last time I felt switching to an AoE Seal was actually worth it.....if the old Seal didn't really cut it at 6 (they died too quickly to make it worthwhile) will having to switch at 4 targets make much of a difference now?
    Same here I think it'll be more interesting for flag aoe in rbgs now, but I'm not sure.

    My general thinking was to be more positive, I'm fed up with constants complaints, even if i understand what some are complaining about and might be justified. Theses days, I enjoy playing Retribution more than anything else, just because I feel useful for my team. I played several melee classes, but I always come back to my Ret. Yesterday I read a post of someone asking something like " Before I invest myself in my Ret, will Rets be taken in 2200 + rbgs ? ". I think that way of reasoning is more common than we can think of. But shouldn't that player first enjoy the class, what he can bring to 1500 - rbgs before ? Many players, whatever they play, from mage to priest, or warrior, most players in fact, will never reach 2200 + ratings, even with " the right class " or " fotm ". I sometimes tend to think people don't take things in consideration in the right order.

    Let's have fun, hope, try and do our best, we can do it, we already did before, and the most insisting of us surely will in the future.

  20. #100
    what about Mass exco glyph ( melee range , melee attack ) it should stack with SoJ

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