Thread: 5.2 soj pvp

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  1. #21
    does anyone else think our 4-piece bonus could be re-worked to be really useful?

    if you compare it to other classes it is the most braindead thing ever. warrior 4pce is amazing, giving them a weapon chain passive, DK double-grip is just awesome, enhance/rogue/monk/hunter (actually 2pce and 4pce bonus should be switched imo ^^) all add some really good things which helps the class big time.

    enhance 4pce allows you to use the snare enchant and still do the same dmg as you would do if you had flametongue on your offhand. why not remove burden of guild and make it the new 4pce bonus for ret? or let SoJ do a (comparable!) dot so we can use that seal for pvp

    giving up a 30sec stun for a snare isnt a good trade imo (especially with double freedom + dispel snare)

  2. #22
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    I'm fine with the 4 PC and 2 PC Ret has. I don't think the glove bonus is fine the way it is though, I feel like Judgement should just be 4 yards for Ret and get some other bonus from gloves. Perhaps something like Hammer of the Righteous snaring. GC just said he wants us to give up damage for a snare, so there we go. But then again, I think that is stupid because plenty of other melee get snares rotationally, or are insanely easy to put up. Monk/Warrior/Rogues/ferals, lookin at you.

  3. #23
    glove bonus looks fine for me, especially with BoG. 800 pvp power for 6sec and 1 HP every 8sec is pretty damn garbage. i dont mind giving up some dmg for a snare since most 2h melees need to do that (harmstring/chains of ice)

    they said that they wanted to bring back that retribution feel a bit more. the set bonus would be the right place to do something like this, maybe something like you get one stack of that new buff every 4sec if you get hit. or maybe if you get hit with SoJ active you get a buff that buffs your WoG by 10% if used on yourself (cannot occur more than once every 4sec).
    this would make the decision about using HP for offense or defense a bit more meaningful especially since almost every ret uses the TV glyph.

    seems like 1 bonus enhances one of the abilites and the other one adds a passive benefit. keep the 1 HP every 8sec and change the other one imo

  4. #24
    I hope they are at least honest with themselves and call the debuff "Taste for Justice"... that way we can at least be open about Ret being Arm's little brother that gets all the hand-me-downs. Anyway, it could be an interesting change, this is what I have wanted for a while (short cooldown burst), God forbid my full conquest Ret's TV hits as hard as my blue-geared (probably 20 item levels lower and no PvP weapons) WW's Rising Sun Kick. I really don't see why we have to lose the baseline snare, our CC is pathetic if we take BoG (possibly the worst in the game tbh).

    Overall, I like it, but I wish they would simply admit that what Ret really needs is a powerful, interesting, and VERY VISIBLE, new ability that makes the spec stand out. Our main problem currently is RBGs... and with all the buffs windwalkers will simply take any spots that could have been ours. In addition, Ring of Peace will absolutely devastate us, a disarmed Ret that gets silenced every 3 sec will be a nightmare, the only thing we can use in a Ring of Peace will be Judgement. In general, nothing shakes my confidence in them more than the fact that they openly admitted that melee are too unattractive in RBGs, and then they introduce Ring of Peace which completely annihilates most melee.
    Last edited by Tangra; 2013-02-08 at 12:42 AM.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Tangra View Post
    In general, nothing shakes my confidence in them more than the fact that they openly admitted that melee are too unattractive in RBGs, and then they introduce Ring of Peace which completely annihilates most melee.
    I know. It makes NO sense whatsoever. They just made melee even worse to bring to RBGs. The hilarious part is they thought the "constant silencing" effect was the one that was in "dire need of fixing." HAHA.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    I know. It makes NO sense whatsoever. They just made melee even worse to bring to RBGs. The hilarious part is they thought the "constant silencing" effect was the one that was in "dire need of fixing." HAHA.
    Yeah, and the same patch that they removed the full silence, they added no auto-attacking... lol. Sure, maybe it was too oppressive to healers, but dps casters needed the RBG nerf. Not only are they super popular, but on top of that they don't even have to stand in the ring. They should at least make it so that casters get silenced for attacking someone in the ring, regardless of whether they themselves are in it.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Tangra View Post
    I hope they are at least honest with themselves and call the debuff "Taste for Justice"... that way we can at least be open about Ret being Arm's little brother that gets all the hand-me-downs. Anyway, it could be an interesting change, this is what I have wanted for a while (short cooldown burst), God forbid my full conquest Ret's TV hits as hard as my blue-geared (probably 20 item levels lower and no PvP weapons) WW's Rising Sun Kick. I really don't see why we have to lose the baseline snare, our CC is pathetic if we take BoG (possibly the worst in the game tbh).

    Overall, I like it, but I wish they would simply admit that what Ret really needs is a powerful, interesting, and VERY VISIBLE, new ability that makes the spec stand out. Our main problem currently is RBGs... and with all the buffs windwalkers will simply take any spots that could have been ours. In addition, Ring of Peace will absolutely devastate us, a disarmed Ret that gets silenced every 3 sec will be a nightmare, the only thing we can use in a Ring of Peace will be Judgement. In general, nothing shakes my confidence in them more than the fact that they openly admitted that melee are too unattractive in RBGs, and then they introduce Ring of Peace which completely annihilates most melee.

    I like the change because it fixed the issue of Tv being really weak for a finisher. But I don't think it will be exactly like Taste for Blood. Unless I read it wrong the debuff will stack like censure and will stay up as long as you refresh it. Using Tv doesn't consume the debuff.

    I just wish they weren't taking away the snare that Seal of Justice gave us. It's really what makes it a Pvp seal.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUntsAhts View Post
    For instance, in like 1500-1800 arenas, Ret/Rogue will probably kill people in a single smoke bomb if Blizzard isn't careful.
    just like how people currently die in a deep?

    sounds balanced to me.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by nyc81991 View Post
    I like the change because it fixed the issue of Tv being really weak for a finisher.
    It won't fix the issue of TV being a weak finisher.

    There are only two ways this can go;

    Its damage is either too low and we all just use truth anyway, and overal got nerfed as we will have our baseline snare removed.

    Alternatively, it could be good outside of cooldowns like they said, in which case it will be too OP during our cds and will be nerfed.

    Both ways ends with ret getting nerfed...sounds about right?

    Its an interesting change at the wrong time. Our 5 minute burst window every 20 seconds is stopping ret getting anything productive. Until they start to listen and address this, ret will have a constant up and down time in arena and will never be properly viable in RBGs.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moradim View Post
    just like how people currently die in a deep?

    sounds balanced to me.
    I never said people should die in a deep. This literally looks exactly like TFB, and TFB got trashed. Why are they giving it to us? Our CD's are just as potent as warriors are. Besides, TFB was the way it was in a season with NO unholy DK's and NO Rogues, historically what Ret does well with. Even if the buff is 50%, could probably see TV's upwards of like 160-170k, plus our mastery. Combine that with Wound Poison or Necrotic during smokebomb or strangulate and I can definitely see TONS of whining.

    ^^ Exactly what Palatinus said. If they scale it around being good outside of CD's, then we will crush people during CD's.

    GoAK is the biggest burst issue, I believe. If he was changed to a more consistent dps cooldown, like 10% strength 1.5 min CD but broke CC(stuns could be removed from this list if it was too OP) when he was casted, it'd help pvp and it wouldn't be a clunky 5 min cd. They could then just scale our pve dps, best way seems to me buffing CS or our flat 2h damage buff.
    Last edited by Valedus; 2013-02-08 at 02:00 AM.

  11. #31
    The only solution I can think of is to make the buff to TV very strong, but to make it not stack when Avenging Wrath is up.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangra View Post
    The only solution I can think of is to make the buff to TV very strong, but to make it not stack when Avenging Wrath is up.
    But then we have to seal swap before we pop CD's and it makes it even more obvious. Kinda annoying, but IDK.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Palatinus View Post
    It won't fix the issue of TV being a weak finisher.

    There are only two ways this can go;

    Its damage is either too low and we all just use truth anyway, and overal got nerfed as we will have our baseline snare removed.

    Alternatively, it could be good outside of cooldowns like they said, in which case it will be too OP during our cds and will be nerfed.

    Both ways ends with ret getting nerfed...sounds about right?

    Its an interesting change at the wrong time. Our 5 minute burst window every 20 seconds is stopping ret getting anything productive. Until they start to listen and address this, ret will have a constant up and down time in arena and will never be properly viable in RBGs.
    I don't think this will make our burst under Cd's that much higher. Wings is really the only cd that increases the damage of Tv.

    This change could also make Divine Purpose a much better choice. Spamming Tv's that actually hit hard will be a huge bonus to sustained damage / burst.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUntsAhts View Post
    But then we have to seal swap before we pop CD's and it makes it even more obvious. Kinda annoying, but IDK.
    Yeah, it's a difficult ability to balance. Maybe they can make the buff to TV apply as a DoT while avenging wrath is active, rather than all at once.

  15. #35
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    Another retarded idea from the brains that brought you 2minute dispel.

    Give up on your Rets folks, it's going to just be another frustrating year. I'll be PvPing as Holy and PvEing as Prot and not looking back.

    FUCK RET.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Valarius View Post
    Another retarded idea from the brains that brought you 2minute dispel.

    Give up on your Rets folks, it's going to just be another frustrating year. I'll be PvPing as Holy and PvEing as Prot and not looking back.

    FUCK RET.
    Depending on how much the new Seal of Justice increases the damage of Tv this could be exactly what we need. Divine Purpose could end up giving us a good amount of sustained burst.

    The important thing here is they are obviously trying to fix the spec.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by nyc81991 View Post
    Depending on how much the new Seal of Justice increases the damage of Tv this could be exactly what we need. Divine Purpose could end up giving us a good amount of sustained burst.

    The important thing here is they are obviously trying to fix the spec.
    Doesn't this screw divine purpose since the consequent TVs won't have 5 stacks?

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyc81991 View Post
    Depending on how much the new Seal of Justice increases the damage of Tv this could be exactly what we need. Divine Purpose could end up giving us a good amount of sustained burst.

    The important thing here is they are obviously trying to fix the spec.
    Too little, too late.

    I've been playing this damn spec loyally for years. Everytme a new expac rolled around I *almost* rerolled, but foolishly didn't and all I've gotten out of it is the frustration of having to work twice as hard at my character as another guy playing the fotm to get 50% of the effectiveness.

    No more, I'm done with it. I'll be playing Prot Paladin for as long as they don't wreck Prot Haste. As soon as that happens I'll be switching to my Warrior or Druid. Whatever happens, there's not a snowball's chance in hell I'll go back to Ret on promises of things getting better only to find we're still a dog turd compared to their new baby Windwalkers, or Ferals, or Rogues.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Tangra View Post
    Doesn't this screw divine purpose since the consequent TVs won't have 5 stacks?
    True. I think I read it wrong. I thought it was going to stack like Seal of Truth does. Which would have been great for sustained damage. I'm not so sure about this change now unless it is a huge damage increase.

  20. #40
    Yeah I assume the stacks are consumed with every TV used.

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