[Fire] Fire better than frost in terms of dps?

[Beeeesly]

Frost is honestly one of the top DPS specs in the game. People just don't like it because it's much harder to get your efforts worth than the others.

It pulls ahead of almost all specs minus Arcane mages and Afflocks honestly.

That's what I'm saying! I've very confused with people saying that frost isn't that great. I play frost and I'm really happy with it. When I tried to switch to arcane because I felt like I was obligated to I could not stand how little mobility I had compared to frost, so I switched back.

For me, it does great and competitive damage. And I figured everyone else who chose to stay frost said the same things. Maybe not.

[Deleted]

top 100 overall dps for bosses (raidbots: which look at dmg that has been done and not a sim)
10man arcane: 119435 fire: 98314 frost: 90894
10manhc arcane: 137194 fire: 120243 frost: 102751
25man arcane: 126946 fire: 101214 frost: 80661
25manhc arcane: 161984 fire: 138490 frost: 105634

[Deleted]

top 100 overall dps for bosses (raidbots: which look at dmg that has been done and not a sim)
10man arcane: 119435 fire: 98314 frost: 90894
10manhc arcane: 137194 fire: 120243 frost: 102751
25man arcane: 126946 fire: 101214 frost: 80661
25manhc arcane: 161984 fire: 138490 frost: 105634

Doesnt mean anything. If no one is playing a spec, there's less top rank, and less people trying to figure out the best way to play the spec, etc..

[Deleted]

Well, look at the top parses for frost and see who is doing this parses. There are few pretty good mages gathered there, suffering from the low dmg output. Frost is figured out, the community small but strong.

[Deleted]

Doesnt mean anything. If no one is playing a spec, there's less top rank, and less people trying to figure out the best way to play the spec, etc..

if noone plays frost, why does come up that much on forums?

if frost was that great like people say, but at same time defend it by saying its because noone plays it or the once that do dossent have the gear that the top fire and arcane mage to get the same numbers, why do the top mages not go frost at all then if its up there and better then fire.

[akris15]

Frost isn't a bad spec just because nobody plays it doesn't mean it's bad he reason it's overshadowed is because t doesn't have the potential if you get lucky with fire or the raw power of arcane which itself is an anomaly and wasn't intended to have scorch weaving. I find frost good in thee situations 1. Where you are performing a specialized job (lei shi stacks) 2. Need burst aoe and you don't have another good aoe class in your raid (feng tsulong) 3. Where you want stable predictable dps where you can remain moble (vizier).

Like I said frost is viable (when I play frost I always end up near the top and I am 12/16 H) but it the current fights in t14 just don't allow it's utility to reach its potential. It's one if those specs where it gets bashed because its not the theorycrafters top pick but you will be doing more dps than most hybrid dps and it's too much of a jack of all trades between the mobility of fire and the stable dps of arcane and if you know about jacks in video games being good at everything but master of none is a bad thing.

Just as a side note going into throne of thunder it seems this spec might be a dark horse because one of the themes of the new raid is having burst aoe in several fights will be a good thing that plays into the strengths of frost

[Deleted]

if noone plays frost, why does come up that much on forums?

if frost was that great like people say, but at same time defend it by saying its because noone plays it or the once that do dossent have the gear that the top fire and arcane mage to get the same numbers, why do the top mages not go frost at all then if its up there and better then fire.

I never said its a top spec or w/e.

I just said you can't know how good frost is because there's so few people playing it. If no one played arcane maybe we would still be with a shitty dps with the abx6 Abarr rotation.

There's a lot of arcane mage, less fire mage but there's still a few, and frost (PVE) mage are really niche. I'm just saying if frost was FotM i'm sure we would discover new things to push the frost dps even higher .

[akris15]

With my personal experiences arcane is best by far everyone will agree with that but I would say fire averages out to be very slightly above frost but the problem with fire is although they killed a lot of the variances with the specs dps on an unlucky pull there is a chance you can do worst than as a frost Mage. Like I said the problem with frost is its the jack spec of the mages and its very stable dps is a bt of a turnoff compared to fire which has about the same mobility and sustained dps on cleave figts. Frost mages big perk is being able burst aoe which isn't that big of a deal outside of looking great on trash this tier

[jtmzac]

Arcane is great while not moving, fire scales very well and has great cleave and frost has great mobility (at least compared to the other specs).

Each spec has its niche and thats how it should be.

The fact is frost is the least played pve spec which makes it a lot harder to get accurate numbers for it. As I said in the frost guide just play frost for a bit and see how well you rank and you'll understand.

As for fire being better than frost well it isn't very surprising since fire has amazing scaling and frost doesn't. At higher levels of crit fire will pull ahead.

[re1gn1te]

Because most of the top mages go arcane and basically arcane only. Then there are others that think Frost is a pvp spec and don't touch it and stick to their inferior fire specs.

---------- Post added 2013-02-09 at 01:59 AM ----------

At higher levels of crit fire will pull ahead.

That's why at the highest ilvl possible on live frost sim's higher than fire ?

[Deleted]

Because most of the top mages go arcane and basically arcane only. Then there are others that think Frost is a pvp spec and don't touch it and stick to their inferior fire specs.

---------- Post added 2013-02-09 at 01:59 AM ----------



That's why at the highest ilvl possible on live frost sim's higher than fire ?

if sim where right why aint there a singel fight in vaults, hof or tos, where logs surport that fire is a inferior to frost?

frost dossent beat fire on any fight anywhere at all when it comes to dps/damage done

its ofc still posibel to have a frost mage on any boss and still get a take down, but u can allso do em in 476 raidfinder gear or lower

what does frost bring that arcane or fire cant do better atm. Control(pet frezz) and burst aoe(frozen orb)

[daydayhyphy]

noxxic = arcane > frost > fire

[Deleted]

noxxic = arcane > frost > fire

Noxxic = BS.

[elpadrino293]

i cant believe people even read noxxic. anyone with half a brain can see that they don't know what the hell they are talking about.

[Deleted]

Noxxic says "Unholy > Frost > Blood" haha.

[huth]

if sim where right why aint there a singel fight in vaults, hof or tos, where logs surport that fire is a inferior to frost?

frost dossent beat fire on any fight anywhere at all when it comes to dps/damage done

its ofc still posibel to have a frost mage on any boss and still get a take down, but u can allso do em in 476 raidfinder gear or lower

what does frost bring that arcane or fire cant do better atm. Control(pet frezz) and burst aoe(frozen orb)

Because there's not a single fight in any of those where a substantial enough number of people play frost to get any useful data. Logs don't matter when you do not have enough data.

[Comet]

Frost works for me. I've switched after fire got nerfed to the ground. I've had to decide quick, before whole community transfered to arcane I learned to play forst and so far it worked very nice for me. I'm doing competitive dmg and suffer basically nothing from moving. It's so fun to play around with tons of procs and on demand burst. Planned well it can pull very decent numbers.

Some logs to back that up. Other mage is almost same ilvl and playing arcane.

(Died on blade lord on transition and was kiting on Garalon)

worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-40jcoznmx54429dn/

[Deleted]

Because there's not a single fight in any of those where a substantial enough number of people play frost to get any useful data. Logs don't matter when you do not have enough data.

im not looking at overall when it comes data, im looking on overall bosses aka top 100 dps
so u are again saying like all the others that think frost is up there dps wise, that the top frost mages either are noobs or have less gear then the mages that play fire

i agree that u cant look at overall(all data from frost,fire and arcane) to see how a dps spec i performing, but u can allways look at the top because there will be logs from people trying it and if no one whit good gear is trying how can u say its good? and again why do the top mages turn away from it befor they get gear then?

---------- Post added 2013-02-10 at 05:50 PM ----------

Frost works for me. I've switched after fire got nerfed to the ground. I've had to decide quick, before whole community transfered to arcane I learned to play forst and so far it worked very nice for me. I'm doing competitive dmg and suffer basically nothing from moving. It's so fun to play around with tons of procs and on demand burst. Planned well it can pull very decent numbers.

Some logs to back that up. Other mage is almost same ilvl and playing arcane.

(Died on blade lord on transition and was kiting on Garalon)

worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-40jcoznmx54429dn/

i agree that u can play ur frost mage well and never said that frost mages cant do dmg, they just cant make as much as fire and arcane and looking at your logs if have even ilvl gear u greatly outpreform ur arcane mage

[huth]

im not looking at overall when it comes data, im looking on overall bosses aka top 100 dps
so u are again saying like all the others that think frost is up there dps wise, that the top frost mages either are noobs or have less gear then the mages that play fire

i agree that u cant look at overall(all data from frost,fire and arcane) to see how a dps spec i performing, but u can allways look at the top because there will be logs from people trying it and if no one whit good gear is trying how can u say its good? and again why do the top mages turn away from it befor they get gear then?

No, i'm saying that it doesn't matter if they're perfect players or noobs because we don't have enough data to tell one from the other with any reliability.

The point is that no, you cannot always just look at the top, that only works when you know that the top is actually competent and have at least a broad idea of what gear level they have. We don't know those for Frost.

[Deleted]

The truth is, even if you get more data (parses), frost will not turn out stronger. There are worlds between arcane and frost, and fire is stronger than frost (single target) at ilvl ~495+. I really tried to stay frost in a very decent guild, but it is not possible. If you have to fight for your spot, you will draw the short straw as frost.
Comet´s log is a very good example. He did 390k on windlord and is ranked 44 and his fellow mage as arcane did 450k and is ranked 178.