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  1. #21
    Mental disorder has to have both components. The Mental part is obvious here, the question for any psychologist or psychiatrist is whether or not it causes issues in the person's day to day life, outside of what a normal person experiences. There are certainly degrees of bipolar where people may die from exhaustion in a manic phase, or others who are more "get up and go" one day and don't feel like leaving the house the next.

    By definition though, bipolar means you have both depressive and manic phases, and in order for it to be a depressive phase or a manic phase it is by definition a disorder. However, that doesn't mean that the person can't use it to their advantage, channel their extra energy into creativity and be successful. If you want an analogy, theres a high school/college wresther without forearms/hands or shins/feet. In his day to day life, its a "disorder", but at meets he mops the floor with normal people because he's using it to his advantage.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Champxoxo View Post
    [...]
    Something like 3% of the U.S population apparently has bipolar of some form, as a proportion of "successful" or "creative" people I would say its fairly proportional.
    according to harrison's that number is 1.5% (at 3540)

  3. #23
    The Lightbringer Deadvolcanoes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandmoth12 View Post
    Frequently people with bipolar disorder are more successful and creative than normal people.
    *Citation required
    It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere.

  4. #24
    Having episodes with severe depression and severe mania isn't much fun. It can seriously ruin your personal life, and even though it might make you very successful during an episode of mania, it seriously hampers your work-life during an episode of depression.

    Also: Bills and stuff. During an episode of depression, you aren't motivated to get your life in order. During a period of mania, you're convinced nothing can go wrong. That's seriously hampering.

    Of course it's a disorder. Jeez.

    Edit: Also, people with bipolar disorder can be successful. But it's by no means 'frequent.'

  5. #25

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Hiricine View Post
    Mental disorder has to have both components. The Mental part is obvious here, the question for any psychologist or psychiatrist is whether or not it causes issues in the person's day to day life, outside of what a normal person experiences. There are certainly degrees of bipolar where people may die from exhaustion in a manic phase, or others who are more "get up and go" one day and don't feel like leaving the house the next.

    By definition though, bipolar means you have both depressive and manic phases, and in order for it to be a depressive phase or a manic phase it is by definition a disorder. However, that doesn't mean that the person can't use it to their advantage, channel their extra energy into creativity and be successful. If you want an analogy, theres a high school/college wresther without forearms/hands or shins/feet. In his day to day life, its a "disorder", but at meets he mops the floor with normal people because he's using it to his advantage.
    the problem can be though that ie with lithium therapy patients might be inclined to not take their medication to stay in a manic phase (which can very well be counterproductive in the long run). I know you probably wouldn't go that far, but I'd be very cautious arguing that the disorder actually benefits patients.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-07 at 01:14 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Stir View Post
    [...]
    Edit: Also, people with bipolar disorder can be successful. But it's by no means 'frequent.'
    indeed. elyn saks is a tenured law professor despite being schizophrenic for much of her life. doesn't prove anything (-> most people suffering from severe schizophrenia have immense difficulties with many aspects of life, including academia.)
    Last edited by xindralol; 2013-02-07 at 06:15 PM.

  7. #27
    ]In case anyone didn't know, short term memory problems can be quite severe as well, which is one of the things that can lead to a lack of success for people with this disorder. Sadly I only remember half the things my wife says. (and not talking selective memory either lol).
    Last edited by Fastlane_hellscream; 2013-02-07 at 06:18 PM.

  8. #28
    Just about everything is a disorder, it makes me wonder what standard they're trying to use as "normal".

  9. #29
    Legendary! Blueobelisk's Avatar
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    This feels like the same concept behind the madness and intelligence thread you created already...

    And do you know what "begging a question" is lol? It's not just a nice figure of speech.

  10. #30
    Guys this only needs a one word answer.

    Yes.

  11. #31
    I am Murloc! Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    Just about everything is a disorder, it makes me wonder what standard they're trying to use as "normal".
    Psychology is a field full of bias, as much as it tries not to be. It's way too easy for a therapist to naturally lead what they expect something to be. You go in feeling a bit angry you go out with some non-extreme bipolar that they still put you on pills for. Once you go off the pills though you're screwed as you forgot how to manage without them...

    There's a lot I dislike about the psychology field in general, and the labelling of every little thing as a disorder is one of them. Even for things like bipolar where it's less common, it can still wreck someones life making them dependant on a pill.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Stir View Post
    Having episodes with severe depression and severe mania isn't much fun. It can seriously ruin your personal life, and even though it might make you very successful during an episode of mania, it seriously hampers your work-life during an episode of depression.

    Also: Bills and stuff. During an episode of depression, you aren't motivated to get your life in order. During a period of mania, you're convinced nothing can go wrong. That's seriously hampering.

    Of course it's a disorder. Jeez.
    That's me to a T. It is a burden I and my family have to deal with on a daily basis. It sucks something awful. I see how it affects my children and my wife and I wish for it to end all the time but it won't. If what I deal with isn't disorder then I don't know what it is.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by sandmoth12 View Post
    Frequently people with bipolar disorder are more successful and creative than normal people. This begs the question is bipolar disorder really a disorder at all?
    Yes it is.

    Have you ever heard the term genius borders on insanity?

    Just because some people can be high functioning at times, or does well at hiding the problem from public view, doesn't change the fact of the disorder.

  14. #34
    I am Murloc! Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaximusRex View Post
    Yes it is.

    Have you ever heard the term genius borders on insanity?

    Just because some people can be high functioning at times, or does well at hiding the problem from public view, doesn't change the fact of the disorder.
    Actually it does. A disorder isn't a disease, it's an imbalance. If that imbalance cannot be perceived how do you know it's there? If it's under safe mental and physical control they are not under a disorder by the old definition. The book changes every 2 years or so though.

  15. #35
    Scarab Lord Roose's Avatar
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    Just because people can be extremely productive during manic episodes does not mean that it is a good thing. If mania drives someone towards positive activity that is great, but it can just as easily be directed towards destructive behavior.

    The mania is not what kills you, though. If people came down to a normal baseline instead of crashing into severe depression it would not be as dangerous of an illness.

    I know that I have lost a friend to it. I am sure that many others have as well. It can be very rough to live with.

  16. #36
    Pit Lord Waaldo's Avatar
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    Disorder doesn't mean mentally retarded.... lol
    Bipolar is just a fancy word for mood swings, and mood has nothing to do with intelligence/creativity.
    So yes it is a disorder, but your definition of disorder is way off.
    Last edited by Waaldo; 2013-02-08 at 12:33 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torethyr
    I thought doing the toothpaste-tube-squeeze and vigorous shake was the "traditional" way.

  17. #37
    Coming from someone who has BiPolar disorder, it absolutely is. When I'm off my medication people think I'm batshit insane. I have crazy mood swings that affect just about every aspect of my life.

  18. #38
    The standards for being "bipolar" have been greatly watered down to anyone with a pissy attitude so any lowlife can qualify for government healthcare handouts.

  19. #39
    Scarab Lord Zhangfei's Avatar
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    Of course it's a disorder? What kind of question is this?
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by sandmoth12 View Post
    Frequently people with bipolar disorder are more successful and creative than normal people. This begs the question is bipolar disorder really a disorder at all?
    it's a disorder when it's not normal and degrades functioning. (something like that).

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