Idea: Hack and Slash MMO

[Edge-]

I'd imagine that latency would kill any chance for a true "hack and slash" mmo to be popular. Maybe a small-large group style game, but not a true MMO.

Tera functions just fine as an action MMO, as do Vindictus, Dragon Nest and other action MMO's that have positional/timing/aiming requirements.

goosie, I got another question for you. Does vindictus have solo stuff like bams from tera?

Sort of. You can solo all the dungeons (it's a lobby game), and some of the later bosses can be a challenge depending on what your setup is/how good you are. Beyond that there are raid bosses which are very difficult to do while solo if you are in the appropriate level range.

[Samoflange]

goosie, I got another question for you. Does vindictus have solo stuff like bams from tera?

Pretty much every battle (re: dungeon) has a "BAM" if you want to call it that. It's not an open world game like Tera, everything is an instanced battle hub and spoke style. Your regular party limit is 4, but raids call for 6-8 people and royal raids are 24 man.

Other than that, you can solo all the raid bosses if you want, you do need the gear (and skill) for it though in order to mathematically do enough DPS to kill it within the 1 hour time limit.

[blackpink]

Tera functions just fine as an action MMO

Yea, the combat is not the reason I'm kind of so-so on tera, it's just about everything else with the game that irks me.

[Edge-]

Yea, the combat is not the reason I'm kind of so-so on tera, it's just about everything else with the game that irks me.

That's fine as visual appeal is 100% subjective, but saying that latency kills any chance for an action/hack and slash MMO to be popular is false. It's more of a challenge with an active combat system, but it's no less of an issue for the passive systems in your EQ style combat.

[Lemmiwink]

That's fine as visual appeal is 100% subjective, but saying that latency kills any chance for an action/hack and slash MMO to be popular is false. It's more of a challenge with an active combat system, but it's no less of an issue for the passive systems in your EQ style combat.

I would say latency was a big turn-off for many people who played Age of Conan. Not only me that quit due to latency ruining the gameplay.

[GuiltyCrown]

This video gives you a decent example of an average-skilled party (in average gear) against a lvl 60 raid boss. It's not the best video to showcase chain stuns on the boss, but an evie was pulling off some good ice spears (which freezes the boss in place). In a well balanced raid you can have Karoks clash, Vellas cyclone, and Evies reverse gravity to keep a boss pinned.

As for combos, the game is all combos with the exception of staff Evie and Kai. There are SP moves you can use which have cooldowns (most of the stuns), but that's more for special abilities like the stuns I mentioned earlier.

Anyway if you watch the video, you can see in several instances where the player over extends his combo in a bad spot and gets hit as a result. Is it possible to be so good that you don't get hit at all and do top damage? Absolutely. That's what separates this game from a lot of other MMOs - timing and positioning, the two critical factors. It takes a lot of practice to be able to telegraph every boss' move and know when to slip dash/dodge/block/stormstep etc., which is why the game actually takes skill to be a master at. He does do some very good dodges throughout the fight though, definitely an above average Lann player.

As much as I like Tera, it is less viceral than Vindictus. It's more of a hybrid between your traditional MMO and action combat by sharing elements from both styles.

No offense, but that's a beyond horrible sword Lann player that's recording that video, he's barely attacking and slow as hell (not to mention that Ingkells fight is amazingly easy for Lann in general (both spear and sword). Look up "Raid Hunter (vindictus)" if you want to see a real Lann. Only saying this cause most videos I see linked for this game showcases a really bad player (who are rare at or near max level). Anyways, I would have to say this game, Vindictus, is about as close as you can get to a good hack n slash mmo.

Like others said, no Tera is not a hack n slash mmo, it's action orentated. . .but definitely not hack n slash.

Vindictus is a rather grindy game at the starting levels. Around level 30 to 40 it speeds up. 60 to 80 it really picks up in terms of end game experience. The raid fights and boss mechanics are well done, extremely difficult battles. I have yet to see another MMO with better character armor/weapon customization. They make great use of the source engine to deliver an amazing hack n slash combat experience. Stat balancing is very noticeable. Attack speed in this game is so significant in terms of playstyle that your game play experience and playstyle can completely change if you managed to get a highly enhanced weapon (which have high att speed past +10). Oh yes and the story is awesome (sadly a lot of text/dialog).

Negatives:

-A lot of the dungeon maps are recycled maps

-quests are generic as hell

-if you manage to get a +15 weapon (you're pretty much a god assuming you know how to play your class because of your attack speed and power). Puts World of Warcraft legendary weapons to shame (only problem is the probability of getting a weapon from +0 to +15 is roughly 0.00013%).

-Dead PvP (some of the battle grounds and dueling can be fun with friends still)

-Instanced dungeons (the game doesn't have open world, only three or so towns were all the players hang out for the Auction house/quests/repairing/etc)

-Peer2Peer hosting. Servers are split between West and East. Someone hosting a normal battle quest or raid with bad internet or on the wrong server will give the other players in their party bad connection and they will lag. I've rarely experienced it though. . .

-The company "managing the game"

-Hardcore players stacking high defense/att power/speed/balance at level 80 can faceroll SOME of level 60 raids now :c

Positives:

-Hack n slash combat which is addicting once you get to a certain level (depending on the character you're playing). A lot more fast paced than Tera/GW2 (I'm not saying the combat is better because that's subject to opinion)

-Every character (other than the new Vella) has two different type of weapon options. Switching between them changes your playstyle and abilities every time you equip one or the other.

-Armor/weapon customization

-Graphics/physics

-Raids requiring 8 players or so who tend to sometimes wipe on certain raid bosses can be solo'd by almost any character with the right skill and practice (Look up raidhunter).

-How simplistic the combat control options are (no hot key mashing other than hourly transformation and SP abilities), however the complexity of the combat is still deep in timing and combos. using them correctly to counter certain boss attacks or even fitting in the right amount before having to dodge or move out of the way for the next attack.

-Almost EVERY attack can be countered by each character in different ways. I know I've had to look up videos on how to dodge certain boss attacks/combos. Each character has an ability or two that can be used to dodge/avoid attacks. Abilities with invisibility frames or just blocking. Some combos can only be avoided by doing more than just using those abilites though. Ex: Spear Lann's sprint > smash attack has him do a quick stab attack (it kinda sucks in terms of damage but moves him forward at a fast pace which is nice for dodging physical attacks by an inch (no invisibility frames).

-Transformation skills that you can start ranking at lvl 40 + SP skills make it feel like you're watching an action movie/anime from your perspective (kinda hard to explain but it's an awesome feeling to use those limited abilities).

-New conent updates releasing new weapons/armor/dungeons/raids doesnt degrade any current armor or weapons by comparison. (generally the new stuff just gives more options in balancing out stats/"transmog" options.

Vindictus with open world is essentially my dream MMO, and I would still be playing Vindictus. However it's being managed by one of the worst companies I have ever seen in action (Nexon North). Despite being F2P, the company does a horrible job managing a game or even giving a flying #### about most of their player base.

TL;DR: Vindictus has AMAZING hack n slash combat past level 50, awesome game engine, eye opening graphics and character/weapon/armor models. . . but it's being managed by a horrible. . .HORRIBLE company (Nexon North).

Forgot to add two more things. Another negative is the enhancement and enchanting system is all about gambling, with a higher chance failing and destroying the item you're trying to enchant or enhance. Thus why +15 weapons are so fking rare. . .oh and their cash shop is technically not pay2win because half the stuff in that cash shop is ALSO a gamble . . .

[blackpink]

That's fine as visual appeal is 100% subjective, but saying that latency kills any chance for an action/hack and slash MMO to be popular is false. It's more of a challenge with an active combat system, but it's no less of an issue for the passive systems in your EQ style combat.

huh? When did I say anything about latency?

[Edge-]

huh? When did I say anything about latency?

Got you mixed up with the other dude who wrote about latency. Sorry -_-

[zoefschildpad]

The problem is these type of games generally work better with a controller. And developing a game for the PC knowing it is better played with a controller seems like a really risky move.
The next console generation may present opportunities, but consoles as they are now don't work so well for mmo's because they don't generally have keyboards. Time will tell if there are going to be good solutions for that.

[Samoflange]

No offense, but that's a beyond horrible sword Lann player that's recording that video, he's barely attacking and slow as hell (not to mention that Ingkells fight is amazingly easy for Lann in general (both spear and sword). Look up "Raid Hunter (vindictus)" if you want to see a real Lann. Only saying this cause most videos I see linked for this game showcases a really bad player (who are rare at or near max level). Anyways, I would have to say this game, Vindictus, is about as close as you can get to a good hack n slash mmo.

I didn't say he was pro, I said he was above average because he was able to pull off some decent dodges. Raid hunter is just on a different level, saying he's the only Lann worth looking at is asinine. Beyond that, you're also really you're missing the point, it was something to show what one can expect from a regular PUG. It would be quite misleading to show the best players in the world soloing raids to people that haven't even heard of the game yet. yeah I could've chosen to show Raid hunter, Daphne, Junyoop etc. but really what's the point if it can't even be appreciated?

[GuiltyCrown]

I didn't say he was pro, I said he was above average because he was able to pull off some decent dodges. Raid hunter is just on a different level, saying he's the only Lann worth looking at is asinine. Beyond that, you're also really you're missing the point, it was something to show what one can expect from a regular PUG. It would be quite misleading to show the best players in the world soloing raids to people that haven't even heard of the game yet. yeah I could've chosen to show Raid hunter, Daphne, Junyoop etc. but really what's the point if it can't even be appreciated?

He's not above average by any means (imo).

Of course choosing raid hunter as an example might've been over doing it you're right. Just for an example of hack n slash action. . .that lann was iffy imo :/ A decent display of slip-dashing was pretty much it (oh and the trans). However. . it was silly of me to have mentioned Raidhunter though (or any of the others you mentioned for that matter), so my apologies for that >_<

But at least you beat me to mentioning Vindictus <3

[Samoflange]

He's not above average by any means (imo).

Of course choosing raid hunter as an example might've been over doing it you're right. Just for an example of hack n slash action. . .that lann was iffy imo :/ A decent display of slip-dashing was pretty much it (oh and the trans). However. . it was silly of me to have mentioned Raidhunter though (or any of the others you mentioned for that matter), so my apologies for that >_<

But at least you beat me to mentioning Vindictus <3

It's entirely subjective, but I know that a lot of people have their own perspective of what "above average" is, to the point where a few flaws is considered a 'baddie' or complete failure. Just like how there are people out there that would say anything below 90% is considered a baddie or failure (which I feel is your perspective on this matter). I think he's a 65-70% player, above average. FWIW (and no, I don't know him, I just pulled a video from youtube), if you read in the comments he admits that he wasn't playing all that well and has since gotten a lot better.