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  1. #1
    Brewmaster Breccia's Avatar
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    Help my group's Combat Rogue against Elegon

    My raid group has hit Elegon and stopped completely. I've been looking at logs, and there appears to be a lot of room for improvement.

    Could some of you experienced Elegon-slaying raiders look at combat log 1 and combat log 2 and take a look at the rogue's performance? I'm not qualified to tell him anything other than "go get some upgrades", but we need to see improvement or we're not going anywhere.

    Thanks in advance for your time.

  2. #2
    Immortal Treelife's Avatar
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    He's spamming Revealing Strike instead of Sinister Strike? (Seriously, wtf)

    Doesn't have Anticipation.

    Low Slice and Dice uptime.

    High Blade Flurry uptime, which on Elegon shouldn't really be used that much unless the add is dying slow (and being tanked next to the boss).

    I suggest you get him to, uh, read up on a basic guide for Rogues.
    Last edited by Treelife; 2013-01-31 at 11:38 PM. Reason: Added a bit more

  3. #3
    The Lightbringer Payday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treelife View Post
    I suggest you get him to, uh, read up on a basic guide for Rogues.
    This, or switch spec.

  4. #4
    First off gotta say Elegon is a hard fight! My guild struggled on it as well so don't feel bad.

    As far as your rogue...honestly he seems like a scrub. He should be the one coming here asking us what to do about his deeps, not one of his guild members. If you're a rogue doing low dps YOU should be the one panicking and looking for a fix, because honestly you don't bring much to the table other than your dps.

    Tell him to go to Icy Veins and read up on how to play his class...if he doesn't improve after that then he obviously doesn't want to improve and thus you should let him go. Melee dps are a dime a dozen anyways.

  5. #5
    The Lightbringer Whitey's Avatar
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    Yea I don't even PvE anymore and there's so much wrong there. 1/4 uptime for SnD? RS instead of SS?
    Recommend a very basic guide as well.
    WBMA - Leave our beards alone

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  6. #6
    why would you even play combat on elegon i played mut in normal and heroic tried combat once but my dps was like 20k behind mutilate. kick this rogue out of your group and tell him l2p
    the ultimate answer's to all rogue issues in MoP:

    -Reroll another class, who wants rougue's anyway.
    -Diablo 3 Sold 15 Million Copys
    -Haste will fix it
    -Rogue's are fine

  7. #7
    Dreadlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koji2k11 View Post
    why would you even play combat on elegon i played mut in normal and heroic tried combat once but my dps was like 20k behind mutilate. kick this rogue out of your group and tell him l2p
    Depends on the weapons of the rogue, and combat isn't actually THAT bad, also seeing as they're 10 man they might be tanking the protector-adds next to the boss.

    The spec isn't the problem, the way he plays the spec is the problem.
    - Very low SnD uptime
    - Using RS instead of SS
    - Should probably macro AR and SB together, even if they're mostly overlapping SB is used late at times and AR falls off before SB (shouldn't happen since he don't have 4 set and SB's duration isn't that long)
    - Using 2 KS's over a 6 minute fight (should be able to push 4 atleast in that timeframe)
    - Should be able to squeeze a third/fourth berserking in (depending on the duration of the fight since it varies a lot between the tries)
    - No flask, no poitons (???)

    Looking at all this, I don't think that this rogue cares about his DPS the least, so if you can, you should probably replace him unless he shapes up quickly. An alt shouldn't even be played this poorly.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemons View Post
    First off gotta say Elegon is a hard fight! My guild struggled on it as well so don't feel bad.

    As far as your rogue...honestly he seems like a scrub. He should be the one coming here asking us what to do about his deeps, not one of his guild members. If you're a rogue doing low dps YOU should be the one panicking and looking for a fix, because honestly you don't bring much to the table other than your dps.

    Tell him to go to Icy Veins and read up on how to play his class...if he doesn't improve after that then he obviously doesn't want to improve and thus you should let him go. Melee dps are a dime a dozen anyways.
    hard ??????????? DPS boss DPS adds ...

    what exactly is hard on this fight ?

  9. #9
    While the rogue is playing very badly, I'd say he isn't your only problem just from looking at those two logs.

  10. #10
    The rogue is playing very poorly, however nearly everyone in your group could use with looking up exactly how their class works. Nearly the entire group is doing something fundamentally wrong with their class on every pull.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Cotech View Post
    Depends on the weapons of the rogue, and combat isn't actually THAT bad, also seeing as they're 10 man they might be tanking the protector-adds next to the boss.

    The spec isn't the problem, the way he plays the spec is the problem.
    - Very low SnD uptime
    - Using RS instead of SS
    - Should probably macro AR and SB together, even if they're mostly overlapping SB is used late at times and AR falls off before SB (shouldn't happen since he don't have 4 set and SB's duration isn't that long)
    - Using 2 KS's over a 6 minute fight (should be able to push 4 atleast in that timeframe)
    - Should be able to squeeze a third/fourth berserking in (depending on the duration of the fight since it varies a lot between the tries)
    - No flask, no poitons (???)

    Looking at all this, I don't think that this rogue cares about his DPS the least, so if you can, you should probably replace him unless he shapes up quickly. An alt shouldn't even be played this poorly.
    im playing 10m aswell its just from my personal experience that i found my self topping the meters with assassination spec i had troubles keeping up with others as combat my best dps i had on heroic elegon was 179k dps
    the ultimate answer's to all rogue issues in MoP:

    -Reroll another class, who wants rougue's anyway.
    -Diablo 3 Sold 15 Million Copys
    -Haste will fix it
    -Rogue's are fine

  12. #12
    Dreadlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koji2k11 View Post
    im playing 10m aswell its just from my personal experience that i found my self topping the meters with assassination spec i had troubles keeping up with others as combat my best dps i had on heroic elegon was 179k dps
    Okay, you have the 10 man exp so I'll take your word on that, I play 25 man and on many fights the specs are pretty even.
    But I guess it also comes down to how they're doing the fights (if they keep the adds close to the boss or not) which might differ from the tactics you're using. But either way I don't think he'd do worse with assassination atleast so we can agree on that.

  13. #13
    Does your group get to Phase 3? If it does not, and if you have your rogue switch from Elegon to each Celestial protector in Phase 1, you will not see great dps from him. It's just too much target-switching and running around (even using Sprint and Shadowstep) in Phases 1 and 2. His dps should spike sharply during the last phase though.

    To help a bit with low Slice and Dice uptime (especially on Energy Sparks), have him use the Glyph of Deadly Momentum.

    Edit: I meant Energy Charges. They are killable (according to Icy Veins).
    Last edited by Sneakyman; 2013-02-01 at 04:44 PM. Reason: correction

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Sneakyman View Post
    Does your group get to Phase 3? If it does not, and if you have your rogue switch from Elegon to each Celestial protector in Phase 1, you will not see great dps from him. It's just too much target-switching and running around (even using Sprint and Shadowstep) in Phases 1 and 2. His dps should spike sharply during the last phase though.

    To help a bit with low Slice and Dice uptime (especially on Energy Sparks), have him use the Glyph of Deadly Momentum.
    Unfortunately energy charges don't die, they just go "inactive" and death effects don't trigger. If someone told me to hit the cosmic sparks as a rogue, I'd cry.

    Keeping the rogue on Elegon between resetting stacks ( <3 feint) is almost a necessity for the rogue to feel useful at all. Beyond that, he needs to fix basic class mechanics -- see the "read before posting" thread in this forum for links, or Coldkil's signature, or Icy Veins, or most any other source, really. When he's using the right buttons and keeping SnD up, his damage should look a lot better.

  15. #15
    Field Marshal
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    To me, this just looks like someone who doesn't really know what they're doing. Using RS instead of SS is basically a sin. Is SS even on his bars? At this rate, I would just have him learn Assassination since it is better single target damage anyways. If he wants to play Combat still, just have him look at any basic rotation guide to start with. It isn't a terribly difficult rotation.

    Here's a link to get him started:
    http://www.icy-veins.com/combat-rogue-wow-pve-dps-guide
    Last edited by Dizz216; 2013-02-01 at 05:05 PM. Reason: better link

  16. #16
    If the rogue is the one you are worried about then you might need to check those logs again. None of the DPS is even close to 90k. My guess is your group needs major upgrades, or they all need to go check Icy-Veins as has been suggested already. Until all the DPS are near 90k you are going to struggle with this fight and even then last phase will be rough.

    How many waves of sparks are you killing? Are you getting to p3 consistently? Maybe it's the strategy that you are using that is holding back your group.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Dizz216 View Post
    To me, this just looks like someone who doesn't really know what they're doing. Using RS instead of SS is basically a sin. Is SS even on his bars? At this rate, I would just have him learn Assassination since it is better single target damage anyways. If he wants to play Combat still, just have him look at any basic rotation guide to start with. It isn't a terribly difficult rotation.

    Here's a link to get him started:
    http://www.noxxic.com/wow/pve/rogue/...-and-cooldowns
    I don't generally look at Noxxic because I've had bad experiences in the past with them, and reading their guide, I can safely say DO NOT USE NOXXIC'S ROGUE GUIDE. Anyone who wants to combat this can start with the advice to use BF and FoK on 2 targets. Outside that it's "close enough" but other guides can give the same single target with better information regarding the lack of importance of rupture, without giving terrible advice.

  18. #18
    Field Marshal
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mugajak View Post
    I don't generally look at Noxxic because I've had bad experiences in the past with them, and reading their guide, I can safely say DO NOT USE NOXXIC'S ROGUE GUIDE. Anyone who wants to combat this can start with the advice to use BF and FoK on 2 targets. Outside that it's "close enough" but other guides can give the same single target with better information regarding the lack of importance of rupture, without giving terrible advice.
    I agree with you, but I just posted it so that he had something to work with. Personally I do like icy-veins better, so maybe go with http://www.icy-veins.com/combat-rogue-wow-pve-dps-guide. Ultimately though, any decent guide should help him at this point.

  19. #19
    Brewmaster Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryzzen View Post
    If the rogue is the one you are worried about
    I'm worried about everyone. This is the rogue forum, I'm asking about the rogue here.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-01 at 01:46 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Treelife View Post
    He's spamming Revealing Strike instead of Sinister Strike? (Seriously, wtf)
    I have received word back from the rogue along the lines of "What do you...OH DAMN my macro's broken!" So, at least that's going to be fixed.

    I passed along the other suggestions and tips, and he's looking into them. Thank you all for your time.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    I'm worried about everyone. This is the rogue forum, I'm asking about the rogue here.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-01 at 01:46 PM ----------



    I have received word back from the rogue along the lines of "What do you...OH DAMN my macro's broken!" So, at least that's going to be fixed.

    I passed along the other suggestions and tips, and he's looking into them. Thank you all for your time.
    how do you screw up your macro so badly to spam RS instead of SS ? ^^
    the ultimate answer's to all rogue issues in MoP:

    -Reroll another class, who wants rougue's anyway.
    -Diablo 3 Sold 15 Million Copys
    -Haste will fix it
    -Rogue's are fine

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