View Poll Results: Christopher Jordan Dorner, Hero or Psycho?

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  • Hero

    119 36.50%
  • Psycho

    121 37.12%
  • I'm afraid the LAPD will come for me if i give my opinion..

    86 26.38%
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  1. #401
    I am Murloc! Gothicshark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Master Jakken View Post
    I feel like you have an irrational hatred of law enforcement. I have no proof, it is just an inference. I'm willing to think you believe all cops are pigs am I right?
    Nope, most of us feel most cops are honest about the idea of being civilian protection, but in places like LA the cops have developed a subculture of mistrust and hatred of civilians. The really feel it is us vs them, and they break the law regularly and get away with it.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-08 at 02:03 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Sorrior View Post
    I have a bit of authroity hatred in general..Can still say i've met some VERY nice officers.
    my ex was a cop. I usually don't care about these things, but even my ex had issue with LAPD and there corruption. And he was a cop. (Bakersfield).

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-08 at 02:07 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    no, that doesn't sound like something an intelligent person would do
    If you had no reason to live and needed to cause change in a society. Just look at any historic rebellion. Most would say leaders where usually fairly smart. This guy is a leader his manifesto could cause others to pick up arms, I would say he has all the traits of a genius level rebel leader. To even debate this proves he is not an idiot. I read what he wrote and agree with what he was saying. I do not agree with his method but I agree with his message.

  2. #402
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gothicshark View Post
    Nope, most of us feel most cops are honest about the idea of being civilian protection, but in places like LA the cops have developed a subculture of mistrust and hatred of civilians. The really feel it is us vs them, and they break the law regularly and get away with it.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-08 at 02:03 AM ----------



    my ex was a cop. I usually don't care about these things, but even my ex had issue with LAPD and there corruption. And he was a cop. (Bakersfield).
    Yeah i know a woman who left being an officer due to corruption. I also got pulled over by two VERY nice officers. They saw i was new to driving and was clean with no record and realized i just didn't know my lights were off(thought i might have been drunk). They let me go no real warning just advice to make sure i checked and we went our ways.

  3. #403
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorrior View Post
    Agreed man...This is why we need a system that somehow balances out the power of police/our government. The scales are tipped WAY too far in their favor.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-07 at 09:24 PM ----------



    I will indeed agree with the no family rule should be in play. But this isn't a movie as well.
    We already have a system in place that balances the power of police/government, it's the 2nd amendment itself which gives me the opportunity to forcefully disagree with any law agency that tries to force me to submit.

    I mean it's a dam wonder you don't see more stories about government agencies like Cps facing retaliation against armed parents who otherwise disagree with the Decisions that are trying to tare their families apart.

    I mean if it is legal for law enforcement to come on my property and shoot my dog simply because it is viewed as a potential threat it is also well within my rights to shoot the dirty pig using the same logic as he is a threat to me and has already killed a member of the family.
    Furthermore any law enforcement officer who then tries to detain me for such actions will be met with more defensive gunfire.

  4. #404
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melkandor View Post
    I agree, the police departments throughout SoCal have made various mistakes throughout the day, and it's going to cost them big time. Especially the two elderly women getting opened fire upon and wounded because they were driving the same truck as the killer... The cops didn't even check, they just opened fire.
    Not the same truck, a truck by the same manufacturer. The suspect had a silver grey 4 door full sized truck by Toyota, the women had a 2 door midsized truck by Toyota. Be clear anyone with half a brain would have realized not the same truck, especially in a city with an area of 469 square miles (1,215 km2). Also Toyota trucks are the most common trucks in LA.

  5. #405
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    The man has killed (potentially) innocent people, in his own crazed revenge, but that also doesn't mean what the police are doing in response is acceptable.

    All I ever hear about the LAPD is how it is corrupt, racist and abusive. I'm sure there are good cops within it, but sadly it feels as if that number is dwindling day by day. Acts like these though, from both sides, harm both sides of the story.

    The LAPD have crushed a lot of their reputation, and the man involved is now nothing more then a murderer that the LAPD can put resources into finding.

  6. #406
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gothicshark View Post
    To even debate this proves he is not an idiot.
    you disagreeing with me hardly proves anything

    as for your violent predictions, I will hope, without any ego, that I am right and you are wrong


    and actually, the suspect's car was a Nissan Titan, that it was mistaken for a Toyota Tacoma is even sloppier

  7. #407
    Quote Originally Posted by Pengalor View Post
    That all might have been an excuse if he only targeted the people who wronged him but he's already suspected of killing two people, one of whom was the daughter of someone he felt wronged him. That takes him from vengeance-seeker to cold-blooded killer. It matters now even less than it did what his original reasoning was, he's no more than a serial killer now.
    Assuming those are the facts, that he killed a (more or less) innocent family member - I don't agree with that action. I can understand why he would do such a thing though. He is essentially conducting war on the LAPD. He targeted a family member. This means that they ALL have to protect all their family members now. I don't agree with him killing an innocent, but it gives him a pretty big advantage in a 'war' situation.

    LAPD is notorious. They have been for a long time now. Nothing is being done about it. There are no legal options for an individual to protect themselves from them. If a cop has a vendetta against you, I feel like your only option is probably to flee to another state, and hope that's enough. If you believe Dorner's version of events, (and I feel like there's no legitimate reason to doubt them) corrupt police actively ruined his life.

    If you do choose to doubt his version - lets ask a question. Why would Dorner LIE and make a false report about another police officer assaulting a defenseless citizen? (which is corroborated by two citizens, one being the victim) From there, it spirals out of control, and there's no reason to doubt anything that follows. (being victimized by the department after being unjustly fired, losing his military clearance, etc)

  8. #408
    Quote Originally Posted by Daerio View Post
    Assuming those are the facts, that he killed a (more or less) innocent family member - I don't agree with that action. I can understand why he would do such a thing though. He is essentially conducting war on the LAPD. He targeted a family member. This means that they ALL have to protect all their family members now. I don't agree with him killing an innocent, but it gives him a pretty big advantage in a 'war' situation.

    LAPD is notorious. They have been for a long time now. Nothing is being done about it. There are no legal options for an individual to protect themselves from them. If a cop has a vendetta against you, I feel like your only option is probably to flee to another state, and hope that's enough. If you believe Dorner's version of events, (and I feel like there's no legitimate reason to doubt them) corrupt police actively ruined his life.

    If you do choose to doubt his version - lets ask a question. Why would Dorner LIE and make a false report about another police officer assaulting a defenseless citizen? (which is corroborated by two citizens, one being the victim)
    Sure, it makes sense from a tactical perspective but for someone supposedly trying to 'clear his name' he's not doing himself any favors by killing cops, much less innocents that only share a blood relation.

    For why he would lie, he may very well be paranoid. He claims he suffered severe depression, he may actually be manic-depressive, prone to fabricating events. Considering he's currently on a killing-spree I think we can all agree there's something wrong with him mentally, I'm just suggesting it's not too far a leap to think he may be fudging the facts a bit or possibly delusional. I'm by no means implying the cops are definitely off the hook either, there are cases of corruption in many places and Los angeles has a terrible track record.

  9. #409
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pengalor View Post
    Sure, it makes sense from a tactical perspective but for someone supposedly trying to 'clear his name' he's not doing himself any favors by killing cops, much less innocents that only share a blood relation.

    For why he would lie, he may very well be paranoid. He claims he suffered severe depression, he may actually be manic-depressive, prone to fabricating events. Considering he's currently on a killing-spree I think we can all agree there's something wrong with him mentally, I'm just suggesting it's not too far a leap to think he may be fudging the facts a bit or possibly delusional. I'm by no means implying the cops are definitely off the hook either, there are cases of corruption in many places and Los angeles has a terrible track record.

    He's never said he's trying to clear his name..he has given up on that..he is out for revenge trying to bring corruption to light is just a side effect at this point I'd say.

    Though i suspect he still wants to do TRUE good but has been too corrupted to be able to.

  10. #410
    Quote Originally Posted by Pengalor View Post
    For why he would lie, he may very well be paranoid. He claims he suffered severe depression, he may actually be manic-depressive, prone to fabricating events. Considering he's currently on a killing-spree I think we can all agree there's something wrong with him mentally, I'm just suggesting it's not too far a leap to think he may be fudging the facts a bit or possibly delusional. I'm by no means implying the cops are definitely off the hook either, there are cases of corruption in many places and Los angeles has a terrible track record.
    I don't feel like the fact that he has killed police automatically makes him mentally ill. His depression started when he was fired over this whole thing. I feel like that's a pretty normal reaction.

    If you're living in a world where you cannot get justice, it doesn't make you crazy to seek it for yourself.

  11. #411
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    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    I'm not much of an exhibitionist, in conversation I generally take up response to what others say, I don't get on the soapbox for long, but if you want me to expand on my feelings I can oblige you.

    The people who support this man disappoint me, if you're looking for heroes, I would hope you might find them elsewhere. I see nothing about this murderer to get behind, there is no goal that can make good on his crimes; The ravings of a killer do not interest me and it saddens me to see there are others who are fascinated with his drek. That some of you would say that violence is the only way to get through to people says more about you than it does about the criminal in question - violence is the only thing that gets through to you, it seems to be all that you understand, why else would you latch on to such a pointlessly violent sociopath? or dwell on events of over 20 years ago as proof of the LAPD's incompetence. Sure they haven't made themselves look good today, shooting at innocent women, but they're just people, and when someone is hunting you down you get scared, and scared people do stupid things - this isn't forgiveness for their mistake, certainly that shooting must be reviewed and punished if necessary, but who has the largest share of blame when it comes to creating the situation - the cop killer. That he created a situation which led to further violence against innocents is a black mark on him, not a boon or a success for a noble cause, but for the cause of inflicting terror and pain for its own sake. There is no justice to be found in the actions of this man, only murder, there is no wisdom to be found, only violence.
    Good a long post to tear down.

    1: no one feels he is a hero, he is a villain. Sadly sometimes it takes a villain to cause a good change in a society which refuses to change.
    Example Hitler Germany will never again try to take over Europe with a military force, and the western World let the Jews have control of their home finally.

    2: LAPD is the most corrupt police department in the US. it has a regular history of abuse and murder. Most people in California are fed up with the LAPD which is why they no longer get raises, or any voter ballet initiatives though. LAPD gets on average lower pay than LA Teachers, because it requires voter approval for them to get a raise out side of cost of living.

    3: Human History has proven that Humans do not like change, and sometimes the only way to fix a system is to destroy it first.

    4: the events of the Abuse from the LAPD happen every 6 months or more, they have on average 3 - 5 law suits at any given time where they did something wrong, there are at least 2-10 deaths related to the actions or inaction of the LAPD that make the news every year. ( I want to point out the events hitting the news are only the ones where family or friends find out about. who knows how many abuses actually happen because someone doesn't have family or friends.

    5: LA is one of the largest cities on Earth in square miles. The places we are talking about are huge, with millions of people living in them, and the vehicle in question is the most common truck in LA. No excuse can justify shooting the two women like they did, or the other guy who was told by one officer to pull over and was shot by another. Yes three shootings so far by the LAPD during this time, and none of them are justifiable.

    6: Yes he is a cop killer, and he said he will target cops. However he has only killed 3 and wounder 2 others, 3 were cops and two were related to the lawyer who he had wanted revenge on. I would say he accomplished his goals fairly well. people are talking about his reasoning, he has hurt the people who hurt him, he has LAPD scare stupid.

    7: Wisdom is gained from any experience in life, and frankly LA has gained a bit of wisdom, hopefully we as a community will act on it in a positive way, sadly all I see is a feature film with Denzel Washington or Forest Whitaker as the lead. (honestly I am hoping for Forest Whitaker he kind of looks similar and has the talent to pull off crazy and justified while being the bad guy. See Ghost Dog.)

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-08 at 02:46 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    maybe you should stop saying things you don't mean

    and I still don't see how there is any degree of flaw in the LAPD that can merit a response like this, or any crusade against corruption that can let us condone murder, and you can double talk all you want, but that's what you're doing, you can't put on airs about how vile his crimes are while tacitly lauding what you hope he will accomplish and think you have given yourself some healthy distance from the crime - you do not reap the "benefit" and imagine your hands are clean, your stance is just as hateful and beyond redemption as his
    As a former Marine, and as a person who hates violence, I could be pushed this far fairly easily. The LAPD has hurt him hard, read his manifesto I do not doubt the honesty of his words, yah he was pissed off when he wrote what he did but as a regular forum poster I noticed he kept it together better than most people who post on these forms. Hell I have a few points from getting angry. So really this guy is scary because he has the training, he is smart and has the gear, and the willingness to die for his beliefs. No he terrifies me since I live in an area he might go. But at the same time the LAPD terrifies me more because they are everywhere while he is one guy in a city the that is larger than most nations.
    Last edited by Gothicshark; 2013-02-08 at 10:47 AM.

  12. #412
    Quote Originally Posted by Pengalor View Post
    Sure, it makes sense from a tactical perspective but for someone supposedly trying to 'clear his name' he's not doing himself any favors by killing cops, much less innocents that only share a blood relation.
    I think he has knowingly become a monster, and by clearing his name he wants them to acknowledge the corruption, or at least have the rest of us acknowledge it. So that change can start to happen in a place where taking any legal approach (like trying to speak out about the corruption) is highly ineffective.

    In fact from reading all this news there are two things I am confident about. This guy is a cold blooded murder and that the LAPD has serious issues they need to resolve.

    Years from now no one (except those involved obviously) will remember his name, nor care who died, but what we will hopefully have is a less corrupt LAPD. Let us not forget that our country was founded by breaking King George's laws (and yes we killed British soldiers and their families who were trying to uphold those laws)

  13. #413
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lefrog View Post
    I think he has knowingly become a monster, and by clearing his name he wants them to acknowledge the corruption, or at least have the rest of us acknowledge it. So that change can start to happen in a place where taking any legal approach (like trying to speak out about the corruption) is highly ineffective.

    In fact from reading all this news there are two things I am confident about. This guy is a cold blooded murder and that the LAPD has serious issues they need to resolve.

    Years from now no one (except those involved obviously) will remember his name, nor care who died, but what we will hopefully have is a less corrupt LAPD. Let us not forget that our country was founded by breaking King George's laws (and yes we killed British soldiers and their families who were trying to uphold those laws)
    LOL was trying to avoid mentioning how by modern standards america was founded by terrorists.

    But pretty much this... he has become evil on purpose to show this world the darkness. At least how i see it..Doesn;t mean he;s not a villain/monster or even lessen what he's done...But also dosen't mean he hasn't done some good.e

  14. #414
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gothicshark View Post
    Good a long post to tear down.
    You need to quit being so aggressive. People have different opinions on the matter, and this sort of attitude is just going to derail the whole thread ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gothicshark View Post
    Example Hitler Germany will never again try to take over Europe with a military force, and the western World let the Jews have control of their home finally.
    Now that didn't take long, did it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

  15. #415
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    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    If he is so filled with righteous fire and rage, why did he wait five years?

    I've never been mad enough to murder people I've never met, like you said, neither have you
    I don't really see what your point is there, except to further my point that a mentally healthy individual doesn't see the world this way, that the point where you start murdering strangers is not some righteous epiphany of justice

    this is cyclical and pointless, you barely understand what you're saying let alone what I'm saying, probably best to retire for the evening
    3 years in total, also and this is important he has been planning his every move for some time, read his manifesto. He is treating this as a special operations mission. Which sadly means he will kill a lot of people before he stops. I know first hand what he has been trained to do by the military, since I have the same training. I can tell you it is not something you would want to deal with. Honestly I may visit my folks in northern California this weekend because of this. Because I think he is capable of doing much worse.

  16. #416
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gothicshark View Post
    As a former Marine, and as a person who hates violence, I could be pushed this far fairly easily. The LAPD has hurt him hard, read his manifesto I do not doubt the honesty of his words, yah he was pissed off when he wrote what he did but as a regular forum poster I noticed he kept it together better than most people who post on these forms. Hell I have a few points from getting angry. So really this guy is scary because he has the training, he is smart and has the gear, and the willingness to die for his beliefs. No he terrifies me since I live in an area he might go. But at the same time the LAPD terrifies me more because they are everywhere while he is one guy in a city the that is larger than most nations.
    ignoring the silliness of "tearing down" posts, I see no reason to read his manifesto, I don't need to know the thoughts of a murderer, if he is murdering to bring attention to it, then I will combat it by not giving that attention

    and yes, he already came through here it was a pretty unsettling day today, with most people freaked out about avoiding being in gray trucks, because, like you said, the thousands of cops are more worrisome than the one man

    but any other day I wouldn't worry about cops, its a situation this man has heightened and driven into a furor, my police experiences are evidently nowhere near as bad as others, not to claim I am ignorant of their problems

    edit @Hyve yea I restrained myself from mentioning Hitler earlier, I didn't want to be the one

  17. #417
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gothicshark View Post
    3 years in total, also and this is important he has been planning his every move for some time, read his manifesto. He is treating this as a special operations mission. Which sadly means he will kill a lot of people before he stops. I know first hand what he has been trained to do by the military, since I have the same training. I can tell you it is not something you would want to deal with. Honestly I may visit my folks in northern California this weekend because of this. Because I think he is capable of doing much worse.
    Massively over-dramatic. The chances of something happening to your family because someone has it out for LAPD are almost less then 0. The guy has it out for an extremely corrupt law enforcement system, why would that lead to you?

  18. #418
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorrior View Post
    Yeah it really is. I've never understood why if you want someone to suffer fro a wrong they've done why you kill them..Such as capital punishment...No TRUE suffering is emotional.
    This is why he is so dangerous, because he is willing to cause the most damage to his victims, which means family are fare game.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-08 at 03:05 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    ... the naivete is thinking that these murders will somehow serve to expose corruption and lead to reform...
    No the realist will point out that put in the same situation you would have to make he same choice, some of us would just fade into nothingness but a select few would rise up and destroy everything to see the world burn. This guy is doing just that, he is not a hero, he is the type of villain many oppressed people wish they were. I can reconcile him as both a villain and as someone who has a justified message for the oppressed. Sadly the oppressed will sit back and do nothing about this situation. and the oppressors will only fear the oppressed more which will lead to more oppression.

    My only question to you is what shade is your skin, is it peach colored or chocolate colored? because if you are peach colored you might not understand the amount of oppression that still happen at the hands of the LAPD.
    Last edited by Gothicshark; 2013-02-08 at 11:05 AM.

  19. #419
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    Jesus, I just read the manifesto.
    if even half of it (and I have no reason to doubt it is, or that it is not) it could be used as material for a movie, or TV Mini Series.
    its shocking and saddening to read, However it in my opinion no way condones the taking of life, if he is guilty of this then he should turn himself over to "federal ?" Law enforcement.
    Quote Originally Posted by Acelius View Post
    Sigma : Super Intelligent Giant Moldy Anchovy

  20. #420
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gothicshark View Post
    My only question to you is what shade is your skin, is it peach colored or chocolate colored? because if you are peach colored you might not understand the amount of oppression that still happen at the hands of the LAPD.
    those are the only two choices?

    In LA? You're not forgetting anybody?

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