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  1. #401
    Mechagnome kojinshugi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celista View Post
    It wasn't 30 minutes of dailies, it was 2 hours' worth of dailies at the beginning of this expansion.
    It really wasn't. GL was the only one you needed to do and it took 45 minutes tops if you were geared like a hobo and going solo. Group up with people and it barely took 20 minutes. And there's always people around if you just quit being an antisocial loner for five seconds.

    This is the profile of the daily hater:

    1. See all possible dailies and removed daily cap.
    2. Assume against all common sense and simple arithmetic that this means you have to do everything now.
    3. Burn yourself out doing every single daily you possibly can.
    4. Shake fist at Blizzard for ruining your game.
    When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons! What am I supposed to do with these?! Demand to see life's manager! Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons! Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! With the lemons! I'm gonna get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!

  2. #402
    Quote Originally Posted by Celista View Post
    Mob grinding = mindless repetitive actions in order to achieve a desired goal (rep, items, xp)
    Level capped dailies = mindless repetitive actions in order to achieve a desired goal (rep, currency, items)

    At least with mob grinding you can get it all done in a few days as opposed to dailies which are gated...and required if you want to spend your valor points. >.<

    Terrible terrible game design, I'm tired of reading posts from people trying to defend it. It's just god awful.
    You get it all done in a few days and then what? Then you probably won't have anything to do. That was the problem before and in my opinion a much bigger problem because if you wanted to have something to do that was actually important you'd have to slow down the progression of your character.

    This time the problem is different, you have plenty to do but it's not as fun as it should be, at least not in my opinion. I don't have a problem with the dailies/lfr/hcs way to gear up your character but I can't deny that it should be a lot more entertaining which is why my character has far worse gear than it should. They have been trying to make dailies more fun and they are more fun than they used to be but the thing that's missing is a proper feeling of progress while doing dailies and stuff like that. Think about the fact that quests are much more bearable when you're leveling up and try to implement a proper "format" , if you will, that makes the daily/lfr/hc grind pull you in rather than shove you away. When you reach a certain point in ilvl, the legendary questline and a slightly better item in one slot isn't enough to keep you going.

    I actually though WoW was at less subs than 9.6 so I'm not that bothered. In my opinion MoP is tons of fun and those people that won't pick up the game because of pandas are missing out a lot, the game is miles ahead of Cata and I prefer it to Wrath considering the fact that I'm a tad more seasoned than I was back then and playing without my old mates. Hopefully Blizz deliver in 5.2 since the current tier could be more entertaining.


    Also, question; Is the sub count a 100% accurate way to count how many players are playing the game? Aren't subscribers just the people that blizz will automatically bill at the end of their current game time for a game time extension? When I use a credit card to pay for the game I always unsub instantly so that Blizz won't bill me when my game time ends and I'll rather just either go to the store and buy a game card or buy another 3 months and unsub.
    Last edited by vokey; 2013-02-07 at 11:24 PM.

  3. #403
    Brewmaster Chry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Methias View Post
    The people complaining about rep grinding would have loved Vanilla... AD rep grind for nothing other than cheaper Nax entry = win...
    Personally, I don't have issues with rep grinds themselves, I understand they are part of the game and have always been part of the game... I do, however, have an issue with how they were dealt with in this expansion. Shoving copious amounts of dailies down the players' throats was a god-awful, lazy, non-innovative, and overall bad decision made by Blizzard as a whole, which is shown by the massive loss in subscription numbers.

  4. #404
    That's what you get if you become lazy.

  5. #405
    Quote Originally Posted by Exodeus View Post
    But then again if you played alot you were exhalted or close to it anyway from baron runs with friends :P
    That is true xD. But in any case, it certainly felt longer than the grinds of today ^^.

  6. #406
    Honestly this figure tells us nothing. I'd like to know how many subs they gained compared to the one's they lost, as well as regional figures.

  7. #407
    Quote Originally Posted by Chry View Post
    A good artist to his fans, yes. Likewise, WotLK was a good artist to its players.
    If you can only judge the worth of something based on numbers, i really wouldn't want to be in your shoes. What offers the better food for example, a 5 Star gastronomic restaurant or Mcdonalds? Obviously the gastronomic restaurant, but meanwhile everyone flocks at Mcdonalds to eat that garbage.

    Same logic can apply to WoW, Vanilla and BC were meant for the real MMO fans, then WolTK came to cater to the "MMO-Fastfood" crowd. Yes it meant more subs, but much less quality.

    Edit : looking at your armory, i guess you actually fit in the "fast food gaming" crowd so i guess that explains a lot.
    Last edited by Zergal; 2013-02-07 at 11:25 PM.

  8. #408
    Quote Originally Posted by kojinshugi View Post
    Seriously, get a job and a family and try doing that.
    This makes me wonder about the demographics of players. How many of them have jobs/families which prevent them playing for long times and how many of them are doing dailies...

    Generally speaking, "What about the people without that much time?!" isn't really a good argument for game design though.

  9. #409
    Fallout from Bliz's redefinition of content:

    Content (old): New and fun things for players to do. For example, new raids, new dungeons, new BG's.

    Content (new): anything that takes time. For example, longer flight paths, delaying flying until 90, pseudo-mandatory overly long and tedious series of daily quests, crafted items locked behind a BoP drop system, recipes locked behind grindy reps, requiring rep to buy almost anything, elimination of convenient travel methods such as HGWT.

    (yes I know some of these aren't new, its the combination I refer to).

    I fully expect bliz to cut travel speeds in half and declare that they've double the content available.

  10. #410
    Still waiting for blizzard to bring back World-PvP like they talked About

  11. #411
    In 2006 just before The Burnign Crusade WoW reached 5 Million subscribers.

    BC launches in January of 2007 by march 2007 WOW had 8.5 Million subs

    A year later in January 2008 WoW had 10 million subs

    Nearly a year later in Nov 2008 WoW reaches 11 Million subs as WotLK hits.

    ALL official:

    http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company.../timeline.html

    Oct 2010 WotLK raches 12 Million subs ad the end of its tenure.

    http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company...tml?id=2847881

    Cataclysm launches Dec 2010

    5 months later WoW starts bleeding subs eventually getting down to 9.1 million subs.

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...sse-Blue-Posts

    http://www.gamesindustry.biz/article...-wow-subs-down


    The largest growth was during its hardcore Vanilla and Burning Crusade era...just sayin.

  12. #412
    Quote Originally Posted by Chry View Post
    Personally, I don't have issues with rep grinds themselves, I understand they are part of the game and have always been part of the game... I do, however, have an issue with how they were dealt with in this expansion. Shoving copious amounts of dailies down the players' throats was a god-awful, lazy, non-innovative, and overall bad decision made by Blizzard as a whole, which is shown by the massive loss in subscription numbers.
    Losing players who can't cope with Blizzard attempting to make the world necessary to progress is not a loss, it's a gain to the game and community as a whole
    Nyoro~n? (´・ω・`)
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    One year, 62kg/136lb lost. Only a little bit left...

  13. #413
    Bloodsail Admiral Eliandal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommassive View Post
    I wonder what this all means. Financial numbers seem very strong. Be nice to see them make a statement about the drop off.
    It was addressed on the actual call. The majority of the loss was attributed to China, while western markets were pretty much stable

  14. #414
    Great this means after patch back to standard 10-11 millons ?¿?

  15. #415
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarthan View Post
    When was its Golden Age bud? In Vanilla? Because that is wrong we had less people playing. I doubt you even played from launch or Burning Crusade.


    WoW Is dying!!!!!! OMFG Who cares I still find plenty of people to run my 25 man guild.
    I believe WotLK was wows all time high for subs. If you are defining WoW "golden age" by number of subs, that is it. They wont ever be able to reproduce that level of excitement/anticipation as the Lich King brought into the game though.


    However, I consider TBC to be WoW's "golden age" (from a raiders PoV). Karazhan, Vashj, KT, Illidan, KJ. So many awesome raids and lore figures.

  16. #416
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    If you never want to sell a game again and have everyone in appropriate countries get refunds by law, sure.

    Also I'm not sure if anyone would believe you if you advertised it. That or false advertising, another thing you'd have legal issues with.

    But please, go on about how your idea of expansions is both practiced and normal, and not DLC.

    I saw you said they dropped the first quarter, it still means nothing. Getting sales when you release a game means NOTHING. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Look at Diablo 3. Look at Bioware. Getting sales means nothing if that franchise is a dying shadow afterwards. WoW hasn't had that happen (yet, although I don't believe it will), but basing anything off immediate sales is a fanboy argument at best when it comes to subscription games.

    He also stated that they hit 11 million in BC in response to someone saying they only had 6 million (and that 11 was the peak). Both are correct. He never said it was the HIGHEST, just that it peaked. Peaked. Because it was the peak then.
    there would be no legal problems... this would be like you trying to argue something isnt a book if its only 50 pages long, an expansion is as its called an EXPANSION of the content within the game, dlc is an EXPANSION of the content within a game. an expansion can be small or big as can dlc its the same thing and all that matters is how much a company puts into it.

    the only place i would get in trouble is if i tried to sell it in china since in china you cannot charge for more content thats why they get all the expansions for free.

    also diablo 3 is not "dead" its a single player game and there are still lots of people playing it and it sold alot. im not sure what bioware has to do with any of this unless you're talking about mass effect 3? which was regarded as a pretty good game except for the ending.

    and no he said that wow never had more than 11 million subs.
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  17. #417
    Quote Originally Posted by Zergal View Post
    If you can only judge the worth of something based on numbers, i really wouldn't want to be in your shoes. What offers the better food for example, a 5 Star gastronomic restaurant or Mcdonalds? Obviously the gastronomic restaurant, but meanwhile everyone flocks at Mcdonalds to eat that garbage.

    Same logic can apply to WoW, Vanilla and BC were meant for the real MMO fans, then WolTK came to cater to the "MMO-Fastfood" crowd. Yes it meant more subs, but much less quality.
    I seem to remember a shitload of Wotlk hate on these forums and many others throughout the expansion. People whined consistently about Blizz rehashing old content, cutting corners and the raids being too easy PvE wise and PvP wise people just whined like bitches because of DKs. A few years later and they just remember one season and the Ulduar tier+ ICC before it had been around for ages and it's the best thing ever.

  18. #418
    Quote Originally Posted by Zergal View Post
    If you can only judge the worth of something based on numbers, i really wouldn't want to be in your shoes. What offers the better food for example, a 5 Star gastronomic restaurant or Mcdonalds? Obviously the gastronomic restaurant, but meanwhile everyone flocks at Mcdonalds to eat that garbage.

    Same logic can apply to WoW, Vanilla and BC were meant for the real MMO fans, then WolTK came to cater to the "MMO-Fastfood" crowd. Yes it meant more subs, but much less quality.
    Welcome to the world of subjectivity. It's what this thread can be summed up to. Both ways unfortunately.

    Sorry NO refunds. Enjoy your stay. Get something to keep you entertained because you'll be here for a while.
    Perspective is like a coin. It has two faces, but most people fail to see both.

  19. #419
    Quote Originally Posted by lazzy View Post
    I think Blizzard is lying about the real numbers
    We already know they are not accurate "sub numbers" since many of the Asian countries are not paying on monthly basis.

  20. #420
    Brewmaster Chry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zergal View Post
    If you can only judge the worth of something based on numbers, i'd really don't want to be in your shoes. What offers the better food for example, a 5 Star gastronomic restaurant or Mcdonalds? Obviously the gastronomic restaurant, but meanwhile everyone flocks at Mcdonalds to eat that garbage.

    Same logic can apply to WoW, Vanilla and BC were meant for the real MMO fans, then WolTK came to cater to the "MMO-Fastfood" crowd. Yes it meant more subs, but much less quality.

    I'm in complete disagreement that WotLK content was of "much less quality" than any previous expansions, simply because it was not. There is no point in arguing over the subject as it is a very opinion-related discussion. (Again, numbers are the only sets of data we can be consistent with when discussing this situation)

    Also, apples to oranges much? People eat at McDonalds because it's cheaper and more widely available, not because it's more popular. WoW has sustained its subscription model every since day 1, and has been widely available since.

    Quote Originally Posted by vokey View Post
    I seem to remember a shitload of Wotlk hate on these forums and many others throughout the expansion. People whined consistently about Blizz rehashing old content, cutting corners and the raids being too easy PvE wise and PvP wise people just whined like bitches because of DKs. A few years later and they just remember one season and the Ulduar tier+ ICC before it had been around for ages and it's the best thing ever.
    The only difference is that Blizzard is now LOSING subscribers, not GAINING.

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