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  1. #461
    Stood in the Fire Rassman's Avatar
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    I scoff at anyone who is saying WoW is dieing! I do believe that 98% of MMO's don't even have more than a couple million players. 9.6 Million that is an insane number and anyone who we lost probably a few 100k people which is expected, so honestly I don't get this idea where WoW is dieing since when can games keep the same player base constant? People quit and come back and new people get in and it goes on and on and on.....

    EDIT: @Kryos Just to let you know "over 10 million" could mean 10.1 or less; also the golden age of WoW IS FAR from over I mean in Cata our lowest was 8.5 million meaning we still gained and over MMO's are so behind us that even if we went to 2 million subs we're still very successful.
    Last edited by Rassman; 2013-02-08 at 12:01 AM.

  2. #462
    Quote Originally Posted by [Apok] View Post
    I can't bring myself to play much any more, i hate daily quests, yet i would happily farm like was needed for loatheb in vanilla.

    The lack of choice with regards to direction of progressin your character via a certain means is boring and annoying.
    But you actually have more choice. If you want to raid you have normal/heroic raids. If you cant do or don't like organized raids, you have LFR. If you do not like LFR you can run dungeons/Scenarios. If you don't lik instanced stuff you have rep grinds. And honestly, all you are asked to do is two weeks of dailies to get revered on one toon( significantly less time after you buy commendations) to get raid quality gear for not raiding. Prior to that you had running dungeons to get raid gear and raiding. People are just upset you cannot get your valor gear through spamming dungeons anymore. Also PvP. I see way more options to progress my characters than I ever have before.

  3. #463
    This isn't an either/or situation. Both of these statements are true

    WoW has a very healthy player base and will be the most profitable, dominant MMO on the market for many years.

    Truth.

    WoW's peak and it's glory years are behind it, it is in a slow but steady decline and will continue as such.

    Also truth.

  4. #464
    Quote Originally Posted by anti-wow View Post
    Like someone said: "WoW is still a good game,and its gotten back its soul."

    During TBC for example, if you wanted a good story you had to sit back and watch them ruin fan favorites from warcraft 3 and watch them retcon the lore while fumbling over storylines which to this day almost all of them are unexplained and had to fight against villains that either shouldve been heroes or were 'just cos for teh lulz' for example what the hell were the naga doing with swamp water? now we get good storylines and characters like chen stormstout arent ruined and faction leaders are being developed instead of sitting in their little rooms
    fixed that for ya
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

    FC: 3437-3046-3552

  5. #465
    Brewmaster Chry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kryos View Post
    I enjoy MoP and think it's one of the best addons they ever made. You guys are all just very very nostalgic and forget how bugged (vanilla), hardcore-only (BC), repetive (WotlK) and boring (Cata) the old addons where compared to MoP. MoP has hardcore Hardmodes, supereasy LFR, medium normal modes and tons of stuff to do if you want (farm, pet battles, dailys, 5 mans, scenarios and so on).

    The average age of MMOPRG players 2004 was 22 years. Now add 8 years. What changes from 22-30? Right - your family. You have kids, your career peaks, you are VERY busy -> much less time for Computer games.

    So many who started with vanilla had to stop playing or reduce their playtime. Turned from "hardcore" to "casual". And after 8 years, 13 T-sets, 200+ mounts and pets the game is not that exciting anymore. That's not Blizzards fault. It's just what happens to any old game. They peak and what is left is a hardcore fanbase and a few casuals.

    Did anyone really expect that WoW will have 10+ million subscriptions for 10+ years in a row? Come on, get real. WoW will still be played in 5 years, maybe with only 3-4 million subs. But that's still more than enough to make good money with that game and support it with content patches.

    So, calm down everyone.

    WoW haters: This will not kill WoW, but it's a sign that the golden age of that game are over.

    WoW lovers: This is a significant drop and Blizzard does not like it, but it was expected and will continue.
    Again, the "rose-tinted goggles" syndrome is completely invalid due to the numbers. Blizzard should easily be able to sustain consistent subscription gains, despite the age of the game, based on the quality of the game. It's just no longer at the quality of WotLK, I'm afraid.

  6. #466
    Since I just got home from class...I don't really feel like being hyper critical and point out all the reasons I love MOP. (There is to many)

    BUT MOP IS AWESOME. Best expack yet. I adore everything about it.

    except the CC in PVP >> that is maybe a bit over the top. haha but really. Best expansion yet. GG Bliz I was starting to wonder.

  7. #467
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightelfsb View Post
    Please, dont be hating. I don't think you'll find any people on this board, who haven't done long grinds before. BUT having daylies as the ONLY option, that is where it went wrong.

    PS; Exalted Argent Dawn inn classic wow, early 40 exalted title inn wotlk way before most people. What have you done inn wow? Again dont be hating.
    Dailies are not the only option. As stated above there are many ways. Dailies are only needed to get your rep up to revered(two weeks or lees of work), after that dailies are no longer needed unless you want bonus rolls which are not needed.

  8. #468
    High Overlord
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    And back up to 10+ with 5.2. It has been going up and down a million players for years. Nothing new.
    For the doomsayers, even if it was to keep declining it would take about 5 years to even half it's playerbase.

  9. #469
    The Lightbringer Ermahgerd's Avatar
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    Can't say I'm really surprised. I haven't been playing WoW for quite some time now (actively ofc). And I'm somebody who doesn't get bored quickly. The dailies and lack of interesting things in WoW is what made it boring for me. There's NOTHING to do besides dailies, BGs, dungeons, arenas and raids. dailies and dungeons get bored EXTREMELY quickly.
    BGs are FILLED with bots. Arena... well I enjoy arena, but I'm not AS experienced with them yet. And well raids... They're just not my thing currently. I DO enjoy them, so nothing against that.

    I want to run around freely and discover EXCITING stuff. Perhaps add some secret places like back in the previous expansion packs or something, IDK.

  10. #470
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarnaxxx View Post
    I don't argue that this is a downturn in the size of the player base but did all 500k leave from US & Europe? They didn't lose 1/4 of their market in either of those regions. Those 500k came from the 10,000,000 players around the globe. They lost 1/20th of their player base, not 1/4. Is it declining? I don't think so personally but everyone is welcome to their own opinion.

    He also is assuming only 2M in US/EU. Last official word was at 12M a bit over half were Asian accounts. During Cata, a lot of the losses were attributed to Asian losses especially the 1.1M loss when D3 came out. I would think the over all non Asian count is closer to 4-5M prior to the losses. Until the reveal where they come from it is pretty silly to make these assumptions.

  11. #471
    Quote Originally Posted by dfjdejulio View Post
    I don't think that would do it. From my perspective, the community has been a lost cause since... I want to say patch 3.2? Cross-realm battlegrounds started it, and the dungeon finder tool finished it.

    What do I mean? Once dungeon finder was added to the game, you didn't have to talk to anyone in order to group up for dungeon content. I'd log in to run a dungeon or two, to find that all the people I'd normally do that with have already done all they needed via the dungeon finder. So my choice was "run with strangers" or "give up". My raiding group ended up being the only folks I saw regularly... and then the raid finder put an end to that, for basically the same reason.

    In Pandaria, I ran heroics long enough to qualify for raid finder, and raid finder long enough to stick a legendary gem in my sha-touched weapon. Now, I basically do nothing but level alts, work the Halfhill farm, and hunt in pre-Cata content for transmog gear. And that's all solo, because I am sick to death of strangers, but there's no tolerable community to connect with. Not sure I'll hold out for patch 5.2, haven't decided yet.

    I just don't see there being any way at all for the communities to get strong again. I could be wrong though; we'll have to wait and see.

    That's not to say the game will die. I think there'll be more and more solo and dungeon/raid-finder style stuff for a bit. But it won't be what it was.

    (As for whether I'm a "wrath baby" or whatever: been playing since the game's original beta, and was an alpha tester for TBC. My favorite patch was the one that added Naxxramas and the tier 0.5 or "dungeon 2" content. That was some work, but was extremely satisfying for me. Loved it. Enjoyed TBC up through Karazhan, enjoyed WotLK up through Ulduar, hated Cata, "meh" about Pandaria.)
    I still think Game can work ok with less community oriented content like LFD. But the community driven content just needs to be so much better. One way of doing that is to reward ppl for playing with their guild. Having content that is complex and with 10 ability bosses does not quite hit the nail on the head for those communities. Thats more for heroic raiders.

    BLIzzard needs to go the happy medium - where playing in a structure long term group is rewarding enough for characters to progress. They have not in MOP and these numbers show that. The numbers show in fact exact same thing as they did in first raid tier in CATA. That many players just didn't bother with the raid content cause it was overtuned for most normal players that were looking for acceptable progression. The result in Cata was that Blizzard delayed 5.1 and it had no new raids. Those that were stuck on that tier... were still stuck.

    MOP fixed nothing when it came to this. If anything - more players have probably just given up on normal raiding and went LFR instead. LFR is not meaningful content tho. It does not require anything other than you to push few buttons. Beeing in a guild and raiding on regular basis is more meaningful.

    BLizzard has probably not even realised yet why MOP has been so much failure in normal raids. NOt having the right roles - right specs or the right classes does alot of dmg. Then we see systems like ilvl systems that make it very hard for players to switch roles if some are needed. Only the dmg that ilvl system as done for multicspecs is beyond repair right now this expansion. It should have been the other way around to strengthen normal raids.

  12. #472
    Stood in the Fire Malkazam's Avatar
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    500K in the world.. i bet those 500k are from U.S and Europe.

  13. #473
    Quote Originally Posted by Beefhamer View Post
    Dailies are not the only option. As stated above there are many ways. Dailies are only needed to get your rep up to revered(two weeks or lees of work), after that dailies are no longer needed unless you want bonus rolls which are not needed.
    The basis of progression is based on those bonus rolls. PPL are not stupid.

  14. #474
    Quote Originally Posted by Malkazam View Post
    500K in the world.. i bet those 500k are from U.S and Europe.
    they said they were mostly from china
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

    FC: 3437-3046-3552

  15. #475
    Yeah, large part of it is that WoW insists on continuing with the subscription fees where as Diablo is free to play after purchase. That has a big part in how many people bought the games I can tell ya.
    Regardless, people who love the game will continue to play it. The people that don't will quit. And the undedicated noobs will pass on through and leave no impression at all.

  16. #476
    Quote Originally Posted by dfjdejulio View Post
    I do not believe WoW will ever get down to 3 million players -- the folks running the business expect it to perform better than that, and my expectation is that if it ever got below, say, 6 million players, they'd begin the process of shutting it down. "If we can't be completely stinking rich, what's the point of doing anything at all?"

    (The exception I see would be if Blizzard could do what Harmonix did and re-privatize, undoing various acquisitions. But I'm not so sure they're in a position to do that. I think they're being treated more like "Guitar Hero" and less like "Rock Band", if you follow my thinking.)
    That is contrary to what Blizzard has said about the life of WoW in the past. Not to mention that doesn't make sense. They are technically losing money by running the old game servers because no one is buying those games and they still get support. As long as WoW makes money it will be alive.

  17. #477
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuel View Post
    so what, a few million left, i'm still enjoying playing the game, and love what Mists of Pandaria is offering. In fact., i'd prefer it if more people left because it would give Blizzard to build even better expansions.
    That a few million left isn't a problem. The problem is that there is a critical level in every guild. If one out of 10 leave he will likely be replaced and all will go on like they used too...if three leave and they will not find a quick replacement then another 4 of that group will leave too. Many of the "old" players stay cause of other players...since the content ist repeating itself all over again anyway.
    That what happened to dead servers(some of them went down from average populated to "dead" in less than a year) can actually happen to all of WoW. Go below the critical limit and people will jump off like crazy.
    Add into it that wow in US and Europe is currently not really attracting many new players and you'll see that the current situation is actually rather scary.

    I know that I'm going to be gone pretty soon if Blizz is not doing anything about dead servers. Their performance there is not acceptable in my eyes...and 5.2. is not so "special" that it would keep me paying(especially giving that there are many free2play MMOs out there that I didn't even try yet. Even if their endgamce should suck I will still be entertained for quite some months...).

  18. #478
    Usual posts get about 100 comments. This one already got close to 500. Gratz.

  19. #479
    Dreadlord
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    I wouldnt have guessed it had that many subs still. 9.6 mill is a lot.

    Also, ppl claiming the game is dying; such is life, surely nothing lasts forever, and while it is dying slowly, its pretty pointless to point it out this early. Sure you're right, but i could have said it was dying during vanilla and i would still be right.

    And even if, at some point it does completely die, it will most likely never have a successor. I doubt anywhere in the near future, that a game will pass or even come close to wows sub numbers, titan might, if u ask me, because i can imagine a lot of wow subs switching over, but other than that, wow will probably be the undying king of all MMOs.

    And dont quote me saying "well in 100 years something will surely have had more subs" because that will just start a pointless discussion. MMOs are a dying breed, they arent a good game genre, and even though some will claim MMOs to be a successful design model, they aren't. The only successful MMO ever has been wow. (and dont quote me with your charts of how some other MMO has been successful by your standards, because that too will start a pointless discussion about relativity and whatnot)

    ofcourse these are my thoughts, and you are welcome to disagree.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoonalol View Post
    wat are the 2 gob mounts.. i only know the trike

  20. #480
    Quote Originally Posted by Munashe the Cheetah View Post
    9.6 million is a complete scam and a lie.

    They should not count the chinese who do not have subscription models like everyone else. If a chinese plays 1 hour in a year, and pays $0.01 to do so to blizzard, that hardly counts as a subscription.

    I wish they would stop trying to mislead the market and tell us how many europe and north american subscriptions they have, because that is what should be compared to other MMOs. Dont get me wrong, I love WoW, but it does not need more credit then it deserves, it already hogs the spot light almost entirely.
    Then become the CEO of Blizzard and make that decision. It hogs the spot light because other games are crap. Most are released with short term gimmicks or have problems that WoW solved 8+ years ago. If a game was truly better, people would leave. According to these forums WoW sucks pretty hard, and yet its still alive and kicking and doing better than all the others combined.

    Another thing, with the Cata losses, they kinda lined up well with an over decline in MMOs and games in general. I wonder if this lines up with industry trends as well? If that is they case is oW really in bad shape if others are seeing declines as well? When is the last time Trion said anything about its subs? GW2? I know they don't have subs, but they were loud about 2M sold and lots of activity and no one I know plays any more and unless you are in a big city with overflow there is like no one in a lot of areas.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-08 at 12:16 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy Gecko View Post
    The game is closing in on its 10th anniversary. I don't think there's much that could realistically be done to sustain the unprecedented momentum. You can't expect that many players to keep playing the same game for that many years, no matter what you may think of its quality or lack thereof.
    EQ going on 15+ years.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-08 at 12:19 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by dfjdejulio View Post
    I'm not so sure. If it were another company, yes, but I don't think they want "Titan" (or whatever their next MMO ends up being called) to exist in a context in which they have admitted "F2P" is a business model they're willing to consider.

    But I suppose in a few years we'll see! I do not expect them to drop that low much sooner than that.
    Titan=not what you think it will be.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-08 at 12:20 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Coleslaw View Post
    NO other game has managed to do what Blizzard has done, and continues to do. Retain a significant amount of their playerbase after so long. Look at any other MMO at the 8 year mark in their history....and I will guarantee you that they will be nowhere near as close as WoW.
    You would be lucky if you could name many that make it to 8, hell even 5 years.

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