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  1. #421
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    It doesn't matter if sub numbers is the only data we have. It is still not directly tied to quality.
    Not directly, but indirectly. Financial issues aside, the only thing that would make someone quit this game is a loss of enjoyment. One can assume that the loss in enjoyment came from what the game has to offer, which in the end correlates subscription numbers with quality.

  2. #422
    Quote Originally Posted by Spekkiothebrave View Post
    I've played wow since release and I've really loved the game for a long time. I've left recently since my server is absolutely dead and I know of at least 10 people on that server who have left for the exact same reason. I would come back in a heartbeat if blizz decided to merge servers, I would transfer but at this point I would want to transfer alts as well and it's just too much money to justify transferring all of them.
    This is one of the real issues of WOW. And BLizzard is ignoring this. Game has gone from 12 mills down to 9.6 now... and with same number of servers. CRZ do not solve the issues. The only way to solve them is to merge servers and create strong communities again.

  3. #423
    The Lightbringer Uennie's Avatar
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    Weird all my friends have subbed back, but my friends aren't an indicator of everything else.

    It makes sense, people are growing up and out of the game. They just can't devote the time anymore, and players are changing anyway. I like the expansion, I think it's up there neck and neck with Wrath clawing at BC's floor.

  4. #424
    Quote Originally Posted by Chry View Post
    Not directly, but indirectly. Financial issues aside, the only thing that would make someone quit this game is a loss of enjoyment. One can assume that the loss in enjoyment came from what the game has to offer, which in the end correlates subscription numbers with quality.
    or it could be that it's almost 10 years old. herp derp.

  5. #425
    The Insane Aquamonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chry View Post
    Not directly, but indirectly. Financial issues aside, the only thing that would make someone quit this game is a loss of enjoyment. One can assume that the loss in enjoyment came from what the game has to offer, which in the end correlates subscription numbers with quality.
    MoP has the best game mechanics for storytelling WoW has ever had (quality), subs still went down.

  6. #426
    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    or it could be that it's almost 10 years old. herp derp.
    That argument was invalid the second WotLK saw subscriber gains.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    MoP has the best game mechanics for storytelling WoW has ever had (quality), subs still went down.
    Just because they can tell a story doesn't mean it's a good story.

  7. #427
    Quote Originally Posted by Crummy View Post
    Oh noes.
    I fear that the worst of conversations and topics are about to being.....
    Anyway, nice to see Diablo doing so well
    Wait what? Diablo is a horrible game. 1/2 the pop is gold sellers
    "I'm Tru @ w/e I do" ~ TM

  8. #428
    Quote Originally Posted by Chry View Post
    That argument was invalid the second WotLK saw subscriber gains.
    ok bieber fanboy

  9. #429
    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    A 500k drop in subs is huge. Especially if they are in the U.S. or Europe.
    Yeah, if you have between 1-2 million subs as a brand new MMO *cough SWTOR cough*

  10. #430
    The Insane Aquamonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chry View Post
    Just because they can tell a story doesn't mean it's a good story.
    The good/bad of a story is subjective and not tied to quality unless you want to talk about story structure and depth.

  11. #431
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    I get it, you can't be arsed reading responses to your comments that refute your arguments. I'll end with this:

    If you advertise something without a disclaimer and it's not in the game - it's false advertising and customers are entitled to a refund. In some countries, such as my own, customers are entitled to a refund for up to 60 days regardless. If your expansion is so pathetic I am done in an hour I will be refunding it immediately, as will almost everyone else who bought it. Then your reputation is gone and your one-hit wonder has left you with a broken career.

    But PLEASE, defend your DLC-expansions.

    Bioware's last straw is DA:3, many won't even buy it after the failures of DA:2, ME3, and SWTOR. If that game fails too they have lost pretty much everything.
    theres only been what? 2 or 3 people who have replied to my dlc post. of those 3 ive replied to all of them.

    again you are putting words in my mouth. i never said in my hypothetical sentence that if i made an expansion with only a vanity item that i would advertise it as having anything more than that.

    expansion = EXPANDING the content within a game, doesnt matter how much as long as theres more doesnt matter what they charge or what they put in it if theres something new its an expansion

    Dlc= Downloadable content that EXPANDS the content within the game.

    so the ONLY difference is that one is downloaded and one isnt. again just because companies like ea will put out costumes and thats it doesnt mean thats ALL DLC IS.

    if i go to burger king ask for a burger and they give me a a burger with only the buns and the meat with nothing else is it not a burger? no its still a burger. if i get one with everything on it does that make the burger with nothing on it any less of a burger? NO BECAUSE THERE BOTH BURGERS @_@
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

    FC: 3437-3046-3552

  12. #432
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    The good/bad of a story is subjective and not tied to quality unless you want to talk about story structure and depth.
    Actually, a quality story does a lot better than quality mechanics to tell the story. Not sure how you're not seeing the connection, but a good story correlates with a quality game.

    I hear Den Isle is a pretty nice place to live.

  13. #433
    Quote Originally Posted by Chry View Post

    The only difference is that Blizzard is now LOSING subscribers, not GAINING.
    What do you expect? There's a finite number of persons interested in MMO Gaming, i'm pretty sure they weren't delusional enough to expect a growing playerbase indefinitively. Meanwhile they "only" hold as many subscribers than ALL their competitors combined, game is doomed.

    And yes, quality of content is very opinion related and really depends on what level you play, if you think most BC raiders remotely enjoyed Naxx, ToGC or ICC (outside H:LK) during the massive nerfs (or buff however you see it), you're wrong.

    And how is it apples to oranges, yes Mcdonalds is cheaper, but i can promise you, you could put 2 plates in front of a line of people, for the same price, one is high quality food and the other is Mcdonalds, a LOT of people would still chose Mcdonalds (just using that brand for example, fast food as a whole is the same), since its faster (don't need a fork or anything) or "better" in their eyes (obviously i guess a metric ton of sugar, salt and fat is good) and doesn't require any culinary background to appreciate.

    Same can be said for gaming. Instant gratification with the lowest possible amount of efforts for shitty rewards is more appealing than having to research and learn how to play your character to overcome big challenges.

  14. #434
    The Insane Aquamonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chry View Post
    Actually, a quality story does a lot better than quality mechanics to tell the story. Not sure how you're not seeing the connection, but a good story correlates with a quality game.
    You can make a story about anything interesting if you do it right. The subject is irrelevant.

  15. #435
    Deleted
    WoW is dying.. and the world is gonna end in 2012!...oh wait....

  16. #436
    Quote Originally Posted by Chry View Post



    Just because they can tell a story doesn't mean it's a good story.
    Or in the method that players enjoy and not all players care about the story as much as game play.

  17. #437
    Deleted
    Hi from Germany,

    okay, at first i don't know on which statistics the 500k are based on, maybe the mostly where lost in CN or whatever. I mean, there could be a lot of reasons... they are going down because someone would like to show real data about subscribers and they are based on a "now" realistic count System (The question is: were 12 Million ever a correct calculation?) or saisonal Problems or could it be in the mechanic?

    I yust could explain my opinion about a Problem in the whole System.

    At first, the dev / Quest and design Team did a really great Job on Mists of Pandaria, it is a really huge addon and made with love für Details further showed up a great programming experience.

    Blizzard does sometimes don't know borders. At Cataclysm they didn't put enough Content in it, you had to grind stupid dailys ever and every day and really nothing Special happens for months.

    On Mists of Pandaria they put so much Content and dailys in it that most People thought:
    "Well okay, i don't want to do hours a day on dailys or farm hours for my buffod it is really really to much, i quit i would like to have a reallife, maybe the next patch i will come back".

    The Quit reason is pretty simple, what Blizzard do is to take the sense of World of Warcraft. Mists of Pandaria has the bad Feeling that all what you do is for nothing. You grind the Instances and get Blue gear ..okay, you grind the lfr and get epic gear, you grind the normal raid and get normal epics, you grind the hc raid and get hc gear.

    And now the Problem: IT IS TO MUCH CONTENT, you have to raid so extreme hours and most guilds havent even cleared the normal raid, you have so much bosses and tactics and in exact this time Blizzard come and say...

    Here we go there is Patch 5.2 with ne raids, new gear and new dailys.

    Is it not totally understandable that this is the Moment when most Player quit? There isnt a sense anymore, you haven't cleard the normal raid and there Comes the next raid? Random Raiding is mostly dead, you havent the Chance to kill a Boss like Garalon with a total random raid! MOP is the first Content as Long time where you have to ask for a gearscore.


    I really really know that Blizzard would like to Show that they Held what they told us.."More Content". But this is to much, you Need so much time as raidleader to learn all the taticts and tell them the others, to many bosses and to hard bosses.


    In my Opinion the hardest MOP Fails are.
    - To much and to complexe Boss mechanics in raids
    - To much grinding (Dailys, Raids, Factions, Indegrients)
    - To expensive Content like the massive buffod Prices
    - To much Indegrients for cooking
    - GMs aren't mostly your friends anymore now they are more Service than the gods in blue
    - To fast new Content
    - A bad communication between different countries and the US DEV Team.
    - Really Huge Problems and scandals in some of the EU Communitys, but no one to tell from it in the us

    Greetings,

    Deex / EU Die - Aldor


    PS: I Know it is really strange, Blizzard put so many work in it and there Comes someone who said "It's to much", i mean, People always must see a Goal of there time in it and that is missing in this Moment.
    Last edited by mmocb4d5413dc4; 2013-02-07 at 11:47 PM.

  18. #438
    Quote Originally Posted by Zergal View Post
    Same can be said for gaming. Instant gratification with the lowest possible amount of efforts for shitty rewards is more appealing than having to research and learn how to play your character to overcome big challenges.
    Not sure how it is any different today than it was during WotLK, other than welfare loot being handed out at an extraordinary rate (LFR)
    Last edited by Chaochamp; 2013-02-07 at 11:50 PM.

  19. #439
    Quote Originally Posted by Duster505 View Post
    The only way to solve them is to merge servers and create strong communities again.
    I don't think that would do it. From my perspective, the community has been a lost cause since... I want to say patch 3.2? Cross-realm battlegrounds started it, and the dungeon finder tool finished it.

    What do I mean? Once dungeon finder was added to the game, you didn't have to talk to anyone in order to group up for dungeon content. I'd log in to run a dungeon or two, to find that all the people I'd normally do that with have already done all they needed via the dungeon finder. So my choice was "run with strangers" or "give up". My raiding group ended up being the only folks I saw regularly... and then the raid finder put an end to that, for basically the same reason.

    In Pandaria, I ran heroics long enough to qualify for raid finder, and raid finder long enough to stick a legendary gem in my sha-touched weapon. Now, I basically do nothing but level alts, work the Halfhill farm, and hunt in pre-Cata content for transmog gear. And that's all solo, because I am sick to death of strangers, but there's no tolerable community to connect with. Not sure I'll hold out for patch 5.2, haven't decided yet.

    I just don't see there being any way at all for the communities to get strong again. I could be wrong though; we'll have to wait and see.

    That's not to say the game will die. I think there'll be more and more solo and dungeon/raid-finder style stuff for a bit. But it won't be what it was.

    (As for whether I'm a "wrath baby" or whatever: been playing since the game's original beta, and was an alpha tester for TBC. My favorite patch was the one that added Naxxramas and the tier 0.5 or "dungeon 2" content. That was some work, but was extremely satisfying for me. Loved it. Enjoyed TBC up through Karazhan, enjoyed WotLK up through Ulduar, hated Cata, "meh" about Pandaria.)

  20. #440
    Warchief Sand Person's Avatar
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    off by 300k. damn. usually im get it right on or off only by >100k!

    anyways, THAT'S IT! WOW IS DYING! lol i'm laughing at all those saying that. it was dying during cata if i remember correctly. maybe for all those hater hopefuls, wow will drop to 8.5m by the end of this xpac. /snicker

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