WoW Down to 9.6 Million Subscribers

[therayeffect]

Well I hit the number roughly but it was on the low end of my spectrum. A little surprised it was that big of a drop but I guess my anecdotal evidence wasn't wrong. I like how bad news gets barely a mention, nearly buried in all of these same-old, same-old updates. I even like the spin on it too. "People are more apt to leave than they used to" Yes because MoP isn't fun. It's really boring. There was no innovation and instead a massive regression on a lot of fronts. I really like the spin on how a lot of people bought it and quit too. MoP is awful in my opinion and in the opinion of a lot of people's. I think this is the biggest decline in the first period after an expansion ever, even bigger than the casual cryfest that was Cata Launch but don't quote me on that. I find it hilarious that two completely opposite launch's have basically the same result.

[Osmeric]

. I think this is the biggest decline in the first period after an expansion ever, even bigger than the casual cryfest that was Cata Launch but don't quote me on that.

Sorry, I had to quote you.

Cata was worse, if you consider that it rolled out in stages. The west got it in late 2010; China got in July 2011. The total prompt loss from the two releases (looking at Q1 2011 and China in Q3) looks like it was about a million.

[rhorle]

Still think it's weird that people "enjoy" something so monotonous and repetitive, but I agree with the rest of what you said.

But what else would you be doing? Farming crafting materials? Chain running dungeons? Grind rep from killing things? Level the Xth alt? The problem here is that "monotonous and repetitive" are only being applied to dailies and not everything else in the game. Dailies are being brought down to a basic level while nothing else is. It isn't a even comparison.

Which again brings up the point of if you don't like playing the game. Using your abilities, skills, gear, and character to do stuff in the game. Then why are you even playing in the first place?

[Celista]

But what else would you be doing? Farming crafting materials? Chain running dungeons? Grind rep from killing things? Level the Xth alt? The problem here is that "monotonous and repetitive" are only being applied to dailies and not everything else in the game. Dailies are being brought down to a basic level while nothing else is. It isn't a even comparison.

Which again brings up the point of if you don't like playing the game. Using your abilities, skills, gear, and character to do stuff in the game. Then why are you even playing in the first place?

Dailies are the worst culprits when it comes to monotony, but yeah, we can cut out more if you like Cut the rep grinds! Cut the valor grinds! I'm down for all of that. More time to down raid bosses and pvp...at this point in the game's lifecycle I *almost* spend more time preparing to raid (farming, dailies, LFR, etc) than actually raiding.

As for the rest of what you said, I already answered your question. Someone who truly enjoys the game isn't going to stop playing because they don't like one part of the game...one small part of the game does not equal the whole game. For me, I keep playing as long as I'm enjoying the pvp and the raiding, and that IS using my abilities, skills and character to do stuff in the game, arguably with more preparation and thought than is required to mindlessly slog through another set of dailies.

[rhorle]

Dailies are the worst culprits when it comes to monotony, but yeah, we can cut out more if you like Cut the rep grinds! Cut the valor grinds! I'm down for all of that. More time to down raid bosses and pvp...at this point in the game's lifecycle I *almost* spend more time preparing to raid (farming, dailies, LFR, etc) than actually raiding.

So dailies are repetitive and monotonous but doing the same bosses in a raid week after week with the same tactics and the same skills is not? That is a double standard. Doing dailies and raiding both involve the same amount of repetitiveness and monotony. When you get tired of doing it you take a break from doing it or you lower the amount you do the action in a given period of time.

[Celista]

So dailies are repetitive and monotonous but doing the same bosses in a raid week after week with the same tactics and the same skills is not? That is a double standard. Doing dailies and raiding both involve the same amount of repetitiveness and monotony. When you get tired of doing it you take a break from doing it or you lower the amount you do the action in a given period of time.

I guess. I don't find raiding to be as monotonous and repetitive because you are pushing through to the next heroic boss, or your raid group has it on farm and you're essentially done after everyone has their bis a couple of months in. Dailies imo need more variety or more storyline progression or more challenge, 5.1 dailies are a step in the right direction but doesn't really go far enough.

Blizz only really messed up by making dailies required for rep this expansion, since it decidedly took away from the "freedom of choice" MoP was supposed to offer. Otherwise they would have been fine as is, a feature in game targeted towards players who enjoy that type of content.

[rhorle]

Blizz only really messed up by making dailies required for rep this expansion, since it decidedly took away from the "freedom of choice" MoP was supposed to offer. Otherwise they would have been fine as is, a feature in game targeted towards players who enjoy that type of content.

You don't need anything from reputation though. Nothing that requires rep is critical to advancing in the game. You can gear up for raiding with zero rep Items. You don't need to use quotes there is real freedom of choice in MoP. Want to run dungeons? Run them and get into raiding. Want to do dailies to unlock rewards? Do them. It is a feature in game targeted towards players who enjoy that type of content.

Also you can be done with dailies after a couple of months in, just like with farm bosses. Dailies just get treated different for no reason other then they are dailies.

[Celista]

You don't need anything from reputation though. Nothing that requires rep is critical to advancing in the game. You can gear up for raiding with zero rep Items. You don't need to use quotes there is real freedom of choice in MoP. Want to run dungeons? Run them and get into raiding. Want to do dailies to unlock rewards? Do them. It is a feature in game targeted towards players who enjoy that type of content.

Also you can be done with dailies after a couple of months in, just like with farm bosses. Dailies just get treated different for no reason other then they are dailies.

No no no stop. I'm tired of this argument, yes you can clear content in blues (which I personally have done, multiple raid tiers), but you need rep to spend your valor, there's no getting around it. There should have been no rep requirement at all.

The average raider uses their valor at some point during the tier, particularly now that valor items are upgradeable.

And yes, you can stop doing them after a couple of months, if you do your dailies diligently. Honestly there is no legitimate reason why Blizzard had to tie valor to rep or rep after a certain level to dailies exclusively. It was bad design, and there is no getting around that fact for me. There should have been at least one other means of obtaining rep available, and preferably in a way that encouraged group play, as dailies can be completed almost entirely solo (although it can be moderately more efficient to complete dailies while in a group).

Thankfully my rep grinds are long over, but I certainly won't be using valor upgrades for my druid or my other alts.

[rhorle]

No no no stop. I'm tired of this argument, yes you can clear content in blues (which I personally have done, multiple raid tiers), but you need rep to spend your valor, there's no getting around it. There should have been no rep requirement at all.

You aren't required to spend valor on anything though. Just because you've earned it doesn't mean you have to be allowed to spend it on everything without doing anything. It only takes a week or two of dailies to get honored to buy Valor gear, why aren't you willing to do any work? By the time you can afford to buy those pieces you could have unlocked those pieces. (You can only earn 1000 valor a week

You also can get epics from other sources then Valor to gear up for raiding and fill out slots. No matter how much you want to deny it or say how tired you are of an argument it doesn't change the fact that dailies have never been required in MoP. And there is more choice now then in past expansions. (How you didn't find chain running heroics for rep as repetitive and monotonous is a separate issue entirely).

With the changes in 5.1 you can get unlock Valor upgrades in a week of dailies, even less in 5.2 with the different ways to gain rep. MoP is all about having to work to get things instead of being handed them. For having to play the game in order to get things out of the game.

[Celista]

You aren't required to spend valor on anything though. Just because you've earned it doesn't mean you have to be allowed to spend it on everything without doing anything. It only takes a week or two of dailies to get honored to buy Valor gear, why aren't you willing to do any work? By the time you can afford to buy those pieces you could have unlocked those pieces. (You can only earn 1000 valor a week

You also can get epics from other sources then Valor to gear up for raiding and fill out slots. No matter how much you want to deny it or say how tired you are of an argument it doesn't change the fact that dailies have never been required in MoP. And there is more choice now then in past expansions. (How you didn't find chain running heroics for rep as repetitive and monotonous is a separate issue entirely).

With the changes in 5.1 you can get unlock Valor upgrades in a week of dailies, even less in 5.2 with the different ways to gain rep. MoP is all about having to work to get things instead of being handed them. For having to play the game in order to get things out of the game.

You should be able to spend it due to the fact that you earned the currency. Saying valor is not required is pointless, because nothing in this game is actually required in order to play, save a computer, internet access and game time.

The rest of your argument has been addressed already and we are talking in circles at this point, so I'm ending the conversation here.

[Aquamonkey]

You should be able to spend it due to the fact that you earned the currency. Saying valor is not required is pointless, because nothing in this game is actually required in order to play, save a computer, internet access and game time.

The rest of your argument has been addressed already and we are talking in circles at this point, so I'm ending the conversation here.

High level gear and crafting patterns were locked behind rep back in Vanilla and it was bought with currency that people earned (gold).

[manniefaces]

Only 9.6 million, obviously WoW is dead. (HEAVY SARCASM)

[Celista]

High level gear and crafting patterns were locked behind rep back in Vanilla and it was bought with currency that people earned (gold).

My problem is not with the rep requirement as much as dailies being the only means to earn rep after a certain rep threshold, in an expansion that was advertised as offering "options" in regards to valor grinds. MoP does offer options, but after you earn the rep necessary to spend your valor (only possible one way: via dailies).

Anyway, yeah I've pretty much said what I needed to say here, I'm talking in circles at this point. >.<

[klorx]

"I think wow is gonna die"

[JajaBongs]

Only 9.6 million, obviously WoW is dead. (HEAVY SARCASM)

and mostly loses in china, who do not have the xpac. Its only around 100k in western hemisphere, now 5.2 is waiting....whatever, still does better than every other game

and btw: I would love to see some more retards leave again...but they won't play others games, because they still enjoy WoW, the game they flame so hard

[rhorle]

You should be able to spend it due to the fact that you earned the currency. Saying valor is not required is pointless, because nothing in this game is actually required in order to play, save a computer, internet access and game time.

The rest of your argument has been addressed already and we are talking in circles at this point, so I'm ending the conversation here.

So if I'm geared enough to earn valor, shouldn't I just earn it by logging into the game? Why should I have earn when I've already had to gear enough to enable my ability to earn it? Like everything in the game you have to play the game in order to get things in the game. You aren't just handed Valor for hitting level 90, you have to actually earn it. Why shouldn't you have to earn the ability to spend the valor? Its not like a weeks time is that much effort.

You haven't provide a good reason for why you shouldn't have to earn other then because I said so. I have to earn Blood spirits by defeat raid bosses just to craft the pattern I got from the raid. I can't just start crafting things just because I've already earned the pattern. There are plenty of things in WoW that require you to earn more then one thing to make the most use of one of those things.

[Aquamonkey]

My problem is not with the rep requirement as much as dailies being the only means to earn rep after a certain rep threshold, in an expansion that was advertised as offering "options" in regards to valor grinds. MoP does offer options, but after you earn the rep necessary to spend your valor (only possible one way: via dailies).

Anyway, yeah I've pretty much said what I needed to say here, I'm talking in circles at this point. >.<

Dailies is better than killing thousands of mobs for a low drop rate to do turn ins.

[rhorle]

My problem is not with the rep requirement as much as dailies being the only means to earn rep after a certain rep threshold, in an expansion that was advertised as offering "options" in regards to valor grinds. MoP does offer options, but after you earn the rep necessary to spend your valor (only possible one way: via dailies).

Anyway, yeah I've pretty much said what I needed to say here, I'm talking in circles at this point. >.<

What part of the advertised, multiple ways to earn valor, isn't true? You are confusing two issues. Ability to spend Valor and ability to earn valor. You have a habit of ignoring how other systems function exactly like the flaws you state exist with Dailies. Despite your words about it being about spending Valor it still sounds like it is about gaining rep only through dailies.

How else would you want to gain rep? Through chain running a dungeon? Farming trash in a raid? Grinding mobs for turn ins? All are equally repetitive and boring. Items for valor being locked behind reputation is not a new concept that MoP introduced either, so it can't exactly be a problem attributed to MoP.

[Celista]

Rhorle I can't really say anything more to you than I've already said, lol.

Dailies is better than killing thousands of mobs for a low drop rate to do turn ins.

I was thinking something more along the lines of involving group play. Could be via LFR/dungeons/scenarios or maybe something like...faction defense? Grouping up with other players to defend a reputation faction's hub...could also "boss" or rotating set of mini-bosses involved that could be defeated each day along with the waves of npc mobs that attack the hub, requires semi coordinated play between 5-10 players. Dunno, just an idea.

You could even offer a rep lockout timer after you defeat the mob waves/mini-boss waves so a player could only earn rep at the same rate as the dailies, if Blizzard was concerned about balancing the rep grind options.

[rhorle]

I was thinking something more along the lines of involving group play. Could be via LFR/dungeons/scenarios or maybe something like...faction defense? Grouping up with other players to defend a reputation faction's hub...could also "boss" or rotating set of mini-bosses involved that could be defeated each day along with the waves of npc mobs that attack the hub, requires semi coordinated play between 5-10 players. Dunno, just an idea.

But how would that be any different then dailies at faction hubs that rotate each day? Eventually you'd do all of the rotating sets and just be faced with the same content over and over again. All you are doing is changing the type of content the daily is and not removing the daily from the equation.