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  1. #141
    Titan apepi's Avatar
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    Because blizzard does not want them to tank. If they did they would be tanking right now. They wanted druids to be able to tank so they are.
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

  2. #142
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Sigh.... The only thing the shaman clas for from the T Chieftain was Reincarnation, please do try and keep up. And again - Thrall is special, and he didn't melee a thing prior to WoW which was the same point a the introduction of enhancement. Hell, even if you attacked him in vanilla, he's defend himself by mainly using CL. Yawn....

    Since this is going in circles; There are Shaman in WoW that can melee so where it comes from is a moot point. The point here is that there is no Earth-based spec within the Shaman class, while there is a Wind, Fire, and Water based spec.

  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maios View Post
    Is this serious? Are you really saying that's what I said. I'm not going to have a discussion with you if you can't read.

    And no, each spec uses every single element. You don't get to ignore the air element in lightning bolt because it suits you.
    Eh, he's been ignoring air in LB and CL and fire in LL for quite some time...
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  4. #144
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maios View Post
    And no, each spec uses every single element. You don't get to ignore the air element in lightning bolt because it suits you.
    I never said they didn't use every single element. I'm saying that the primary element for each spec is pretty clear, and has been for awhile now. The lack of an Earth spec is a pretty glaring omission.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    At one time, Shaman were a tank on the same level as Protection Paladins and Bear Druids in vanilla. In fact, Shaman were originally the opposite of Paladins. Both classes were supposed to be mirrors of each other, with Shaman being horde-only and Paladins being alliance-only. However, Blizzard eventually reduced Shaman's capability to tank, and reduced Shaman tanking ability over the course of subsequent expansions.
    Have you played in vanilla?
    Paladins couldn't effectively tank (or heal for that matter) back then. The only way to go was retri. Shamans on the other hand were mainly healers with some dps capabilities. In wasn't until very late in vanilla (right before TBC) when most of the classes received viable offspecs, before that they were locked into single role.

    In any case, the 2 classes were faction specific, but they were never meant to fill in the same roles. Giving shamans a tanking spec is a matter of discussion, but the argument that shammys should be able to tank because paladins can do it is invalid.

  6. #146
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    Well no, Because feral DID have two speccs in one tree, Shamans and Locks DON'T, so the difference is they had the speccs, and needed them to be split, where as locks and shamans tanking is just something you want
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Stark
    They say that the best weapon is the one you never have to fire. I respectfully disagree. I prefer the weapon you only have to fire once. That's how Dad did it, that's how America does it, and it's worked out pretty well so far. I present to you the newest in Stark Industries' Freedom line. Find an excuse to let one of these off the chain, and I personally guarantee, the bad guys won't even wanna come out of their caves. Ladies and gentlemen, for your consideration... the Jericho.

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I never said they didn't use every single element. I'm saying that the primary element for each spec is pretty clear, and has been for awhile now. The lack of an Earth spec is a pretty glaring omission.
    There is no primary element for each spec, Enh would have fire asc too if Blizz decided that LL should have been the attack to spam from range. Enh and Ele share all the rest of the their spells. Ele gets to cause giant EARTHQUAKES. Resto uses spirituality and the earth as well as water to heal.

  8. #148
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gobra View Post
    Well no, Because feral DID have two speccs in one tree, Shamans and Locks DON'T, so the difference is they had the speccs, and needed them to be split, where as locks and shamans tanking is just something you want
    Google "Shaman Tank" sometime and check out the responses just from the official US and EU forums. It definitely isn't just me. Its a large group of Shaman players who feel that something is missing in their class of choice.

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since this is going in circles; There are Shaman in WoW that can melee so where it comes from is a moot point. The point here is that there is no Earth-based spec within the Shaman class, while there is a Wind, Fire, and Water based spec.
    in the game - yes. Lorewise, hardly - which was my point all along. Lorewise Thrall is pretty much one of the only melee shaman, an that's due to his gladiator training and the fact that he's special. Note, thst ever since he renounced the mantle of warchief to become a "proper" shaman (post Cata) he's been wearing robes and used ligtning Bolt and lava burst, further proving my point.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-08 at 11:24 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by hidey0shi View Post
    Have you played in vanilla?
    Paladins couldn't effectively tank (or heal for that matter) back then. The only way to go was retri. Shamans on the other hand were mainly healers with some dps capabilities. In wasn't until very late in vanilla (right before TBC) when most of the classes received viable offspecs, before that they were locked into single role.

    In any case, the 2 classes were faction specific, but they were never meant to fill in the same roles. Giving shamans a tanking spec is a matter of discussion, but the argument that shammys should be able to tank because paladins can do it is invalid.
    The only Way was to go retri? Yeah.... Because all the paladins in vanilla weren't forced to heal in raids..... Oh wait!
    *broken link*
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  10. #150
    The Lightbringer Gobra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Google "Shaman Tank" sometime and check out the responses just from the official US and EU forums. It definitely isn't just me. Its a large group of Shaman players who feel that something is missing in their class of choice.
    I don't have to google it, I've been around long enough to see the huge amount of people wanting it, You cannot compare it to Druids, they DID have Tank and DPS in Feral, Shamans do not have a tank specc, Locks do not have a tank spec, With druids they just made both the specs official, there is no spec for those two, you would have to create new specs, That's what i mean

    For informations sake, i have 2 characters i play, and have done since early TBC, That's Druid, and Shaman, I'm not saying Shamans wouldn't benefit from a tank spec, but it's just nothing like the situation was with Druids, if they made a new spec for one class, they would have to make new ones for the others too
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Stark
    They say that the best weapon is the one you never have to fire. I respectfully disagree. I prefer the weapon you only have to fire once. That's how Dad did it, that's how America does it, and it's worked out pretty well so far. I present to you the newest in Stark Industries' Freedom line. Find an excuse to let one of these off the chain, and I personally guarantee, the bad guys won't even wanna come out of their caves. Ladies and gentlemen, for your consideration... the Jericho.

  11. #151
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maios View Post
    There is no primary element for each spec, Enh would have fire asc too if Blizz decided that LL should have been the attack to spam from range. Enh and Ele share all the rest of the their spells. Ele gets to cause giant EARTHQUAKES. Resto uses spirituality and the earth as well as water to heal.
    Let's take a look at Enhancement for a moment;

    Here are the spec's exclusive abilities and passives. I'll bold the ones that have a wind elemental basis, or increases speed in some form or fashion;

    Dual Wield
    Lava Lash
    Mental Quickness
    Flurry
    Stormstrike
    Windfury Weapon
    Searing Flames
    Static Shock
    Fire Nova
    Maelstrom Weapon
    Unleashed Rage
    Feral Spirit
    Spirit Walk
    Wind Ascendance
    Mastery

    Wind abilities=8
    Fire abilities= 3
    Spirit abilities= 1

    Looks pretty decisive. Why would Blizzard do both Wind AND Fire when one element clearly dominates another?
    Last edited by Teriz; 2013-02-08 at 10:35 PM.

  12. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Let's take a look at Enhancement for a moment;

    Here are the spec's exclusive abilities and passives. I'll bold the ones that have a wind elemental basis, or increases speed in some form or fashion;

    Dual Wield
    Lava Lash
    Mental Quickness
    Flurry
    Stormstrike
    Windfury Weapon
    Searing Flames
    Static Shock
    Fire Nova
    Maelstrom Weapon
    Unleashed Rage
    Feral Spirit
    Spirit Walk
    Wind Ascendance
    Mastery

    Wind abilities=8
    Fire abilities= 3
    Spirit abilities= 1

    Looks pretty decisive.
    Spirit Walk is Spirit based, flurry and Unleashed rage are all based around anger, rage and Wrath which are traits found in personifications of fire.... And maelstrom... Do you even know what the maelstrom is in WoW? It's a huge whirlpool - it's water based "bro". Oh and you neglected flamtongue....
    *broken link*
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  13. #153
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    Hunter - Beastmaster - Tank, alter the spec for tanking from the pets perspective.
    - Ranger - A hunter spec without the pet
    Tank i could understand with all those tank like pets. They just need to link their HP and it should be possible.
    Rogue - Brawler - Tank, based heavily around cooldown usage and disabling/weakening enemies.
    I'd say give the rogue a Ranged spec, like the dark rangers.
    Warrior - Bandage Spec - Healer, Just kidding, don't have a good idea here. (seriously though something to give them a ranged dps spec)
    This is a tricky one. You cant just give warriors a heal spec or ranged spec, since that wouldn't match the Warrior as a class. But if i had to say a Ranged spec is more plausible then a heal spec.
    Monk - Windweaver - Ranged DPS that strikes the air with precision to cast gusts of wind.
    While this is an obvious 1, also a hard 1 to manage. Unless you want to give them a Kamehameha.
    Priest - Radiance - Ranged DPS with holy damage components.
    Would love to see this. In vanilla Disc was kinda the Holy DPS spec with healing abilities.
    Last edited by Beriohtarion; 2013-02-08 at 10:47 PM.

  14. #154
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Spirit Walk is Spirit based, flurry and Unleashed rage are all based around anger, rage and Wrath which are traits found in personifications of fire.... And maelstrom... Do you even know what the maelstrom is in WoW? It's a huge whirlpool - it's water based "bro". Oh and you neglected flamtongue....
    Reread my post. I said any ability that is either wind-based or increases speed. I put that second part in because some spells were altered in MoP. Unleashed Rage for example was changed from 10% attack increase to increasing the weapon and casting speed of allies. Its an old wind ability renamed for gameplay purposes.

    And also, "rage" and "anger" aren't elements.

    As for Maelstrom, there's a reason its glyph is called "Healing Storm".

  15. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Reread my post. I said any ability that is either wind-based or increases speed. I put that second part in because some spells were altered in MoP. Unleashed Rage for example was changed from 10% attack increase to increasing the weapon and casting speed of allies. Its an old wind ability renamed for gameplay purposes.

    And also, "rage" and "anger" aren't elements.

    As for Maelstrom, there's a reason its glyph is called "Healing Storm".
    your Reading skills are really bad "bro"...
    Oh and did't you claim that healing = water? Which only solidifies my point. Oh and a maelstrom is still a whirlpool, which is still water - oh and a storm involves rain quite often, which is water too...
    *broken link*
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  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Spirit Walk is Spirit based, flurry and Unleashed rage are all based around anger, rage and Wrath which are traits found in personifications of fire.... And maelstrom... Do you even know what the maelstrom is in WoW? It's a huge whirlpool - it's water based "bro". Oh and you neglected flamtongue....
    A water tornado is sometime called a maelstrom or water spout depending on where you live. in both cases it is caused by AIR forming a tornado that then passes over a body of water.

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by krunksmash View Post
    A water tornado is sometime called a maelstrom or water spout depending on where you live. in both cases it is caused by AIR forming a tornado that then passes over a body of water.
    So you agree that it uses both water and air? Good, that makes the point the all specs use all elements.

  18. #158
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    your Reading skills are really bad "bro"...
    Oh and did't you claim that healing = water? Which only solidifies my point. Oh and a maelstrom is still a whirlpool, which is still water - oh and a storm involves rain quite often, which is water too...
    Yeah, and storms are wind based abilities. Always have been. Which is why Stormlash totem is an air totem, and Stormstrike transforms to Stormblast when you turn into a wind ascendant and is exclusively an Enhancement ability. Lightning is also considered part of the wind element as well.

    FYI, Maelstrom doesn't just mean whirlpool. It can mean anything from chaos, to violence, to storms. You know like when hurricanes or large storms hit and they call it a "malestrom"? Also those whirlpools are usually caused by tornadoes over water.

  19. #159
    Shaman getting a tanking spec would actually be pretty interesting; they can use shields, they have Earth Shield (although I hope they would alter it with the switch from Resto to Tanking) and there's the conundrum of Rockbiter Weapon. It would definitely make me dust off my shaman, that's for sure.

    As for warlocks, that's stretching it. We don't need another warlock spec.

  20. #160
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maios View Post
    So you agree that it uses both water and air? Good, that makes the point the all specs use all elements.
    No, because a water spout is completely caused by air. That's like saying a Tornado over Kansas is a combination of earth and air. No, the tornado is completely caused by air currents.

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