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  1. #161
    People already whine about holy pally gear; how much more will everyone complain when you have 'tank' mail and, far worse, 'tank'/avoidance cloth.

    Or, there's the opposite gear argument: things get so awkward when they awkwardly force specs into existing gear. Spirit for spriest +hit? Very unpopular with healers. Same thing for resto and elemental shammys. There have even been attempts to make strength the spell power stat for hpallys, which have understandably failed thus far but with every attempt they get closer to accepting it as a solution. Imagine, just IMAGINE, how weird things would get if, say, a shaman got parry from crit, dodge from haste, and damage reduction of some sort from mastery. And no, it wouldn't work to simply pile it all onto mastery; Blizz actively discourages a single secondary stat grossly outperforming the others.

    So yeah, for this to work we're either gonna see +dodge mail or some strange crit --> parry solution. Either one is an abomination. It just won't work at this point. Maybe they'll get it to work for WoW2.

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Maios View Post
    So you agree that it uses both water and air? Good, that makes the point the all specs use all elements.
    no one said they didn't use all element, whats being said is that earth isn't used as the MAIN element of any spec. ele is fire, enhan is air, and resto is water. please stop being stupid with comments

  3. #163
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wafffles View Post
    People already whine about holy pally gear; how much more will everyone complain when you have 'tank' mail and, far worse, 'tank'/avoidance cloth.

    Or, there's the opposite gear argument: things get so awkward when they awkwardly force specs into existing gear. Spirit for spriest +hit? Very unpopular with healers. Same thing for resto and elemental shammys. There have even been attempts to make strength the spell power stat for hpallys, which have understandably failed thus far but with every attempt they get closer to accepting it as a solution. Imagine, just IMAGINE, how weird things would get if, say, a shaman got parry from crit, dodge from haste, and damage reduction of some sort from mastery. And no, it wouldn't work to simply pile it all onto mastery; Blizz actively discourages a single secondary stat grossly outperforming the others.

    So yeah, for this to work we're either gonna see +dodge mail or some strange crit --> parry solution. Either one is an abomination. It just won't work at this point. Maybe they'll get it to work for WoW2.
    Both Druids and Monks use the same gear for both their DPS and Tanking specs.

  4. #164
    also blizz wants to get away from heavy passive tanking stats. with shammy they have a good class to work with that wont feel as clunky as the monk.

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by krunksmash View Post
    no one said they didn't use all element, whats being said is that earth isn't used as the MAIN element of any spec. ele is fire, enhan is air, and resto is water. please stop being stupid with comments
    Only stupid thing going on here is denying that air is an essential part of the Elemental playstyle. Yes, Lava burst is the nuke, yes flametongue is the weapon imbue and Ascendancy turns you into fire - but! Ligtning Bolt doesn't have an 8sec cd, therefor you cast it a lot more, ligtning shield is just ad important as flametongue and when it comes to aoe-cleaving; CL becomes lava beam further proving that air and fire plays the same importance for Elemental.

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  6. #166
    The Insane peggleftw's Avatar
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    Shamans use to have some tanking talents, then blizzard did a u-turn and said they are never going to be able to tank. i think they should be able to using the earth element.
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  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Wafffles View Post
    People already whine about holy pally gear; how much more will everyone complain when you have 'tank' mail and, far worse, 'tank'/avoidance cloth.

    Or, there's the opposite gear argument: things get so awkward when they awkwardly force specs into existing gear. Spirit for spriest +hit? Very unpopular with healers. Same thing for resto and elemental shammys. There have even been attempts to make strength the spell power stat for hpallys, which have understandably failed thus far but with every attempt they get closer to accepting it as a solution. Imagine, just IMAGINE, how weird things would get if, say, a shaman got parry from crit, dodge from haste, and damage reduction of some sort from mastery. And no, it wouldn't work to simply pile it all onto mastery; Blizz actively discourages a single secondary stat grossly outperforming the others.

    So yeah, for this to work we're either gonna see +dodge mail or some strange crit --> parry solution. Either one is an abomination. It just won't work at this point. Maybe they'll get it to work for WoW2.
    Not understanding how having stat conversions is a poor solution to the problem

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by krunksmash View Post
    no one said they didn't use all element, whats being said is that earth isn't used as the MAIN element of any spec. ele is fire, enhan is air, and resto is water. please stop being stupid with comments
    Elemental has more exclusive air abilities than fire:
    10 Elemental Fury (Passive)
    10 Elemental Precision (Passive)
    10 Elemental Reach (Passive)
    10 Shamanism (Passive)
    10 Spiritual Insight (Passive)
    10 Thunderstorm
    20 Rolling Thunder (Passive)
    30 Fulmination (Passive)
    34 Lava Burst
    40 Elemental Focus (Passive)
    50 Lava Surge (Passive)
    55 Elemental Oath (Passive)
    60 Earthquake
    80 Mastery: Mastery: Elemental Overload (Passive)

    Resto has more spiritual abilities than water and also shared elementals fire nuke:
    10 Ancestral Focus (Passive)
    10 Meditation (Passive)
    10 Purification (Passive)
    10 Riptide
    10 Spiritual Insight (Passive)
    18 Purify Spirit
    20 Healing Wave
    26 Earth Shield
    30 Earthliving Weapon
    34 Ancestral Awakening (Passive)
    34 Lava Burst
    40 Resurgence (Passive)
    50 Tidal Waves (Passive)
    56 Mana Tide Totem
    60 Greater Healing Wave
    70 Spirit Link Totem
    80 Mastery: Mastery: Deep Healing (Passive)

    I'm not being stupid, I'm pointing out the flaw is the demand for an "earth" spec. If you want a tanking spec, fine, just say that. But the justification for it is silly.

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by -ex- View Post
    DK - Runemaster - Ranged DPS (uses intellect plate)
    Mage - Timeweaver - Healer (Heals by altering time, cauterizing wounds and prevents damage with frost walls/shields)
    Hunter - Beastmaster - Tank, alter the spec for tanking from the pets perspective.
    - Ranger - A hunter spec without the pet
    Paladin - Avenger - Ranged DPS
    Rogue - Brawler - Tank, based heavily around cooldown usage and disabling/weakening enemies.
    Warrior - Bandage Spec - Healer, Just kidding, don't have a good idea here. (seriously though something to give them a ranged dps spec)
    Monk - Windweaver - Ranged DPS that strikes the air with precision to cast gusts of wind.
    Priest - Radiance - Ranged DPS with holy damage components.
    Warlock - Covered by OP
    Shaman - Covered by OP
    Druid - already have 4 specs
    I made a thread with a suggestion like this on the official fofums a billion years ago, but it went something like this i think

    Mage - Chronomancer - healer
    DK - couldnt think of anything at the time
    Hunter - 1 handed guns - dual wield - no pet
    Rogue - pirate ( swashbuckler ? )- dual wield a 1 handed gun and sword
    Warrior -Gladiator - dual wield 1h tank - offhand used mostly for actively parrying incoming attacks ( priests have 2 healing specs as the archetypal healer so warriors as the archetypal tank.... )
    Paladin - Inquisiotor - Holy dps, ranged.
    Priest - Exorcist - Hybrid deals 50% the damage of a normal dps and half the healing of a standard healer at the same time.
    Warlock - Fel - Permanent demon form - looks dependant on race....like fel orcs and the elves in MGT - melee spell based tank
    Shaman - Earthshaker - agility tank with shield.
    druid - already done
    Monk - some form of ranged or even a second melee spec
    Last edited by Miyavi; 2013-02-08 at 11:21 PM.

  10. #170
    I am Murloc! Thelxi's Avatar
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    Sure, why not. Who cares really if locks and shammies get a tanking spec, more power to them.

  11. #171
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Only stupid thing going on here is denying that air is an essential part of the Elemental playstyle. Yes, Lava burst is the nuke, yes flametongue is the weapon imbue and Ascendancy turns you into fire - but! Ligtning Bolt doesn't have an 8sec cd, therefor you cast it a lot more, ligtning shield is just ad important as flametongue and when it comes to aoe-cleaving; CL becomes lava beam further proving that air and fire plays the same importance for Elemental.
    I would highly disagree with that. The core to the Elemental spec is getting off as many Lava Bursts as possible while Flameshock is still on your target. Everything else is just filler until Lava Burst comes off of CD, or Lava Surge procs.

    In terms of AoE you can make an argument for CL, but in terms of single target DPS and the main damage dealer for the spec, Lava Burst is the undisputed king.

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I would highly disagree with that. The core to the Elemental spec is getting off as many Lava Bursts as possible while Flameshock is still on your target. Everything else is just filler until Lava Burst comes off of CD, or Lava Surge procs.

    In terms of AoE you can make an argument for CL, but in terms of single target DPS and the main damage dealer for the spec, Lava Burst is the undisputed king.
    Lightning is to elemental what auto attacks are to enhance.

  13. #173
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miyavi View Post
    Lightning is to elemental what auto attacks are to enhance.
    That would be flame shock. Flame shock makes LvB crit, and procs lava surge. Like I said, everything else is filler. The main goal of an Elemental Shaman is to fire off as many LvBs as possible before FS wears off.

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    That would be flame shock. Flame shock makes LvB crit, and procs lava surge. Like I said, everything else is filler. The main goal of an Elemental Shaman is to fire off as many LvBs as possible before FS wears off.
    Flame shock to elemental is what flame shock is to enh....a dot.

    Also, you ignored that Elemental has more exclusive air abilities than fire which would signify that air is extremely important to both.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    That would be flame shock. Flame shock makes LvB crit, and procs lava surge. Like I said, everything else is filler. The main goal of an Elemental Shaman is to fire off as many LvBs as possible before FS wears off.
    Auto attacks are filler, lightning is filler.
    Stop trying to argue with people that agree with you.

  16. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    That would be flame shock. Flame shock makes LvB crit, and procs lava surge. Like I said, everything else is filler. The main goal of an Elemental Shaman is to fire off as many LvBs as possible before FS wears off.
    FS and LvB both comes with cd's, LB does not. Therefor you use LB more often than FS and LvB - learn the difference between a core spell and a nuke, sure you might just think it's "filler", but that stuff is just ad important.

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  17. #177
    Legendary! Sorrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maios View Post
    So you agree that it uses both water and air? Good, that makes the point the all specs use all elements.
    NO ONE has said hey don't utilize other elements...We are saying there IS an elemental preference for each spec however.

  18. #178
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maios View Post
    Flame shock to elemental is what flame shock is to enh....a dot.
    I think we can both agree that FS is WAY more important to Elemental DPS than to Enhance DPS.

    Also, you ignored that Elemental has more exclusive air abilities than fire.
    Those aren't air abilities. Those are passive buffs to spells. The exclusive air ability in Elemental is Thunderstorm. Lightning Bolt and Chain lightning aren't exclusive to Elemental Shaman. Now granted, Elemental has passives that buff those abilities, but its for the purpose of making Elemental a more effective spellcaster, and many of those buffs also improve Lava Burst. Like I said before, the core of the spec is Lava Burst. Which is why when Shaman enter ascendant form, they become the Flame Ascendant, not the Lightning ascendant.

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorrior View Post
    NO ONE has said hey don't utilize other elements...We are saying there IS an elemental preference for each spec however.
    There flat out isn't. In what world are elemental shaman not closely associated with lightning?

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-08 at 06:38 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I think we can both agree that FS is WAY more important to Elemental DPS than to Enhance DPS.



    Those aren't air abilities. Those are passive buffs to spells. The exclusive air ability in Elemental is Thunderstorm. Lightning Bolt and Chain lightning aren't exclusive to Elemental Shaman. Now granted, Elemental has passives that buff those abilities, but its for the purpose of making Elemental a more effective spellcaster, and many of those buffs also improve Lava Burst. Like I said before, the core of the spec is Lava Burst. Which is why when Shaman enter ascendant form, they become the Flame Ascendant, not the Lightning ascendant.
    So now we get to make up rules to skew the data...gotcha.

  20. #180
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    FS and LvB both comes with cd's, LB does not. Therefor you use LB more often than FS and LvB - learn the difference between a core spell and a nuke, sure you might just think it's "filler", but that stuff is just ad important.
    Again, its filler. LB, CL, Shocks, etc. are just ways to pass the time until your next Lava Surge rolls in. Hell, some Ele shaman have completely replaced Lightning Bolt with Elemental Blast because it hits harder and gives them a buff. PvP Shaman especially. Despite EB's CD, Lava Surge procs so often that it doesn't matter.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-08 at 11:43 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Maios View Post

    So now we get to make up rules to skew the data...gotcha.
    Where did I make up rules? Enhance's exclusive passives only buff Enhance-exclusive abilities. You're pointing out passives that benefit abilities that every Shaman has.

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