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  1. #1
    Bloodsail Admiral Trigg's Avatar
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    Idea: Hack and Slash MMO

    Right, i have this idea, a cunning plan. Take final fantasy. Throw in Devil May Cry, mix together with world of warcraft and add a pinch of Diablo. A true dynamic 3rd person hack and slash combat mmo. Why does this not yet exsist?! Tera i think is pretty close to it, but it still demands the use of hotkeys and button pressed abilities, and still alot of them. I'm thinking more DMC or God of War.

    Just imagine, a group of 5 people, the holy trinity in effect, tanks using aoe pulls and shields to smash enemies away, dps using javalins to pin them to the wall, crowd control, hacking slashing! Healer doing aoe style healing to the group, i'm sure there are tons of examples you could use to show off this kind of game play.

    I'd imagine you could simply use a game pad for it rather than a keyboard and mouse, remove the hot bars completely and use a list of moves instead. Plus to keep people from getting confused between classes, just have the same input combinations for similar moves across the board. Maybe even have the game meorise your play style and if it thinks you've used a move often enough to know it by heart it'll steadily fade it off the screen, till you're left with a nice clear screen to slash away with. Ofc, you could go it bare straight off the bat and figure out the moves as you go.

    But the main point is that you have a group of people tearing a bloody path through hordes of monsters. Litterally tons of them. a small group of players against an army of npcs ready to reap.

    I've just recently played the new DMC, so this kind of gameplay is still quite active in my mind.

    Think of the combinations you could have in the party if it were 5 well played characters who communicated with each other. Think of the possible hardmode style fights and bosses you'd need to take down using dynamic combat between different classes and styles (ranged/spell/melee etc).

    I'm just throwing this out there too see if any one else had any views on something of this nature. Feel free to shoot it down, it's just an idea after all.

    But I'm surprised this doesn't exsist already, or if it does and i'm blind and completely ignorant of it, could someone point me in it's direction?





  2. #2
    Lineage Eternal

    look it up, not sure how it's progressing though

  3. #3
    It's called Vindictus

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    Lineage Eternal

    look it up, not sure how it's progressing though
    It's not a hack and slash in the vein of DMC and is much more akin to Lineage 1/Diablo style gameplay (though "drawing" of abilities is quite awesome).

    OP: Check out Vindictus. There are no hotkeys in it and all combo's are done through a combination of weak attacks with a finisher. Or DCUO, which has a combat system that focuses primarily on combo based attacks with a limited number of hotkeyed abilities as support.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Goosie View Post
    It's called Vindictus
    lol, no.

    the fights are action(if you like dynasty warriors) but the world is as lackluster as it can be made.

    ideally the answer would be project Copernicus from 38 studios.... buuuut, thanks to the governor of Rhode island making a massive deal about the loan given to 38 to move to Rhode island during the previous administration 38 started losing investors and well... now its dead and everyone in it is in the shit.

    it was ideally going to we kingdoms of amalur: reckoning style combat but in a rich(R.A. Salvatore did all the lore, todd mcfarlane did the art, and the world and mechanic side of things was done by Ken Rolston, the guy who made you even know about the elder scrolls with morrowind and oblivion) world.

    the worst part is, they were almost ready to go into beta in terms of development(this is rumored) when they went under, and now were likely never going to see it.
    Last edited by maldias; 2013-02-07 at 08:10 PM.
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  6. #6
    Fluffy Kitten llDemonll's Avatar
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    a 5-player game is not an MMO, that's more of a dungeon runner

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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by maldias View Post
    lol, no.

    the fights are action(if you like dynasty warriors) but the world is as lackluster as it can be made.

    ideally the answer would be project Copernicus from 38 studios.... buuuut, thanks to the governor of Rhode island making a massive deal about the loan given to 38 to move to Rhode island during the previous administration 38 started losing investors and well... now its dead and everyone in it is in the shit.

    it was ideally going to we kingdoms of amalur: reckoning style combat but in a rich(R.A. Salvatore did all the lore, todd mcfarlane did the art, and the world and mechanic side of things was done by Ken Rolston, the guy who made you even know about the elder scrolls with morrowind and oblivion) world.

    the worst part is, they were almost ready to go into beta in terms of development(this is rumored) when they went under, and now were likely never going to see it.
    Nope, if you actually follow the story it's actual surprisingly good and the NPCs actually have (gasp) character.

    Kingdom of Amalur combat doesn't hold a candle to Vindictus, plus you're talking about a single player game when OP is looking for an MMO of sort.

    @llDemonll There are 6, 8, and 24 man raids in Vindictus.

  8. #8
    Pandaren Monk Zethras's Avatar
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    Tera Online is a hack and slash MMO.
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  9. #9
    Stood in the Fire Bearfist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maldias View Post
    lol, no.

    the fights are action(if you like dynasty warriors) but the world is as lackluster as it can be made.

    ideally the answer would be project Copernicus from 38 studios.... buuuut, thanks to the governor of Rhode island making a massive deal about the loan given to 38 to move to Rhode island during the previous administration 38 started losing investors and well... now its dead and everyone in it is in the shit.

    it was ideally going to we kingdoms of amalur: reckoning style combat but in a rich(R.A. Salvatore did all the lore, todd mcfarlane did the art, and the world and mechanic side of things was done by Ken Rolston, the guy who made you even know about the elder scrolls with morrowind and oblivion) world.

    the worst part is, they were almost ready to go into beta in terms of development(this is rumored) when they went under, and now were likely never going to see it.
    That makes me sad. /sniff

    Hack and Slash MMO would be fun if done *right* I recently found out there is a Dynasty Warriors MMO. I tried it. It was not really fun or exciting to me. Part of it was the set up and design, part was massively clunky controls. I wept a little as I uninstalled and went to a friends house to play Warrios Orochi 3 < . <

    I haven't gotten to try Tera yet (its being super slow to dl and the dl speed spikes something fierce) but I hear that is somewhat like that. I almost think that to really get a good feel for it control wise it would play better on a console/controller than just standard keyboard mouse deal.

    I'd like to see something like that though, I have 4 friends I can tank fer

  10. #10
    Bloodsail Admiral Trigg's Avatar
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    ah maaan. Sounds like that would have been awesome.

    Checked out a video of Vindictus, the combat does look like what i was after, but i'm sceptical of it with what Maldias has said. Also, not that i'm a massive graphics whore, but it's not looking that great for a late 2011 game tbh.

    Well, i can at least hope that 38 get it back up and running even if it is a long shot, or that another studio may take over on the concept at least.

    I have a Tera online account, although i only played it a couple months until i couldn't dedicate time to playing it any more. Maybe i'll try and free up some time now it's going free to play.

    @Bearfist: Tera gives you the option to play with a gamepad or the keyboard and mouse so I'll see how using an xbox controller on it works, might give me a bit of the feel i'm after
    Last edited by Trigg; 2013-02-07 at 08:19 PM.





  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Trigg View Post
    ah maaan. Sounds like that would have been awesome.

    Checked out a video of Vindictus, the combat does look like what i was after, but i'm sceptical of it with what Maldias has said. Also, not that i'm a massive graphics whore, but it's not looking that great for a late 2011 game tbh.

    Well, i can at least hope that 38 get it back up and running even if it is a long shot, or that another studio may take over on the concept at least.
    the thing about combat is that it can easily LOOK impressive, but feel like shit.
    case in point dynasty warriors, where you more or less just spam one button til everything dies, it looks more complex than it is.

    in the case of KoA:R and the games where it took its combat from(a mix of GoW and devil may cry(fuck DMC:dmc)) it uses rapid hits, delays, and holds to break up the monotony and give access to a broader skill set other then combo attacks 1-6.

    in KoA:R you got to use two weapons at once, mixing up the combos even further allowing you an even broader set of skills with the use of only 2 buttons, and thats not even taking into account context based attacks such as counter attacks, dodging strikes and blocking attacks.
    Last edited by maldias; 2013-02-07 at 08:27 PM.
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  12. #12
    Immortal Dezerte's Avatar
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    Vindictus is running on the Source-engine by Valve I believe, and it's hardly ugly looking. You must of been watching some grainy videos, the graphics are on par with TERA in some cases.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-07 at 09:25 PM ----------

    And while we're on the topic, I love the system used in Mount & Blade (directional hits/blocking).
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  13. #13
    Yea I've always wanted something like this as well and I kept thinking in my head how things would be done. One idea: Instead of a static, you learn x ability at y level, get rid of levels. Just like in DMC, you "power up" through buying abilities and items with points that you can get from killing monsters or doing quests that give these "points" as rewards. When you think you've got enough abilities you can go try some of the harder fights (bosses). You can also have a different currency for the better gear. In a dmc style mmo though, I don't really think the holy trinity would work out well, like honestly what would healers do :P It would probably be better to go the route of gw2 and just have everyone be able to do everything.

    Also, I haven't checked out vindictus at all because I heard it was grindy or w/e and didn't check out DCUO either because my friend told me it was very poorly implemented. *knock on wood* but I guess I can check them out since they are f2p.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-07 at 03:28 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Zethras View Post
    Tera Online is a hack and slash MMO.
    lol no its not. Action combat sure, but not what OP or I were looking for in a "dmc" style hack and slash.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by maldias View Post
    the thing about combat is that it can LOOK impressive, but feel like shit.
    case in point dynasty warriors, where you more or less just spam one button til everything dies, it looks more complex than it is.

    in the case of KoA:R and the games where it took its combat from(a mix of GoW and devil may cry(fuck DMC:dmc)) it uses rapid hits, delays, and holds to break up the monotony and give access to a broader skill set other then combo attacks 1-6.

    in KoA:R you got to use two weapons at once, mixing up the combos even further allowing you an even broader set of skills with the use of only 2 buttons, and thats not even taking into account context based attacks such as counter attacks, dodging strikes and blocking attacks.
    Nope, the game takes a lot more skill actually. Something tells me you're just attacking the game without actually having played it beyond level 10. You seem have an irrational hate for the game for who knows what reason because you're spewing a lot of nonsense.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-07 at 03:38 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by dk3790 View Post
    Also, I haven't checked out vindictus at all because I heard it was grindy or w/e and didn't check out DCUO either because my friend told me it was very poorly implemented. *knock on wood* but I guess I can check them out since they are f2p.
    Yeah it is very grindy by nature, both in terms of running battles to progress and the rarity of items you need to craft/enchant end game weapons and armors unfortunately. The economy is out of whack as well. Still though, the enjoyment you get out of combat diminishes the grindiness somewhat since you're having fun anyway.

  15. #15
    Bloodsail Admiral Trigg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dk3790 View Post
    Yea I've always wanted something like this as well and I kept thinking in my head how things would be done. One idea: Instead of a static, you learn x ability at y level, get rid of levels. Just like in DMC, you "power up" through buying abilities and items with points that you can get from killing monsters or doing quests that give these "points" as rewards. When you think you've got enough abilities you can go try some of the harder fights (bosses). You can also have a different currency for the better gear. In a dmc style mmo though, I don't really think the holy trinity would work out well, like honestly what would healers do :P It would probably be better to go the route of gw2 and just have everyone be able to do everything.

    Also, I haven't checked out vindictus at all because I heard it was grindy or w/e and didn't check out DCUO either because my friend told me it was very poorly implemented. *knock on wood* but I guess I can check them out since they are f2p.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-07 at 03:28 PM ----------



    lol no its not. Action combat sure, but not what OP or I were looking for in a "dmc" style hack and slash.
    Idd. In dmc (new one) the combat is easy for beginners to get used to, but if you don't watch your back and start chaining abilities together you'll fall flat on your face on harder bosses/difficulties. This is the kind of style i'm after. Chaining different combos together, maybe even aiming to keep enemies locked down till they die as a goal. Utilise a similar system as style points so that to get the best stuff you're going to need to make use of a wide variety of abilities. Essentially, how well you know and play the game during combat directly results in what rewards you get more than just point and shoot.

    Tera is a nice example of a similar style, but yeah it's definitely not what i'd consider hack and slash. Hack and slash is pure speed through melee combat, or just direct combat straight from your actions rather than waiting for abilities to come off CD before hitting them again. In most cases i'd also consider hack and slash to combine this with chaining abilities, another thing that's lacking in mmos so far. Both the ability to chain your own moves together ala DMC as well as with the introduction of other players, chaining moves with other players. It could get very complex and in-depth, which is why i mentioned it in the OP for a possible strategy of tackling the toughest pve bosses





  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Trigg View Post
    Tera is a nice example of a similar style, but yeah it's definitely not what i'd consider hack and slash. Hack and slash is pure speed through melee combat, or just direct combat straight from your actions rather than waiting for abilities to come off CD before hitting them again. In most cases i'd also consider hack and slash to combine this with chaining abilities, another thing that's lacking in mmos so far. Both the ability to chain your own moves together ala DMC as well as with the introduction of other players, chaining moves with other players. It could get very complex and in-depth, which is why i mentioned it in the OP for a possible strategy of tackling the toughest pve bosses
    That is probably why I love slayers the most (and warriors to an extent) they have the most hack and slash feeling with their combat and speed (chaining combos and dodging at the right time feels pretty good). The other classes (dps) just feel like standard tab-target mmo classes to me, pretty boring, but that's just my opinion.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Trigg View Post
    Idd. In dmc (new one) the combat is easy for beginners to get used to, but if you don't watch your back and start chaining abilities together you'll fall flat on your face on harder bosses/difficulties. This is the kind of style i'm after. Chaining different combos together, maybe even aiming to keep enemies locked down till they die as a goal. Utilise a similar system as style points so that to get the best stuff you're going to need to make use of a wide variety of abilities. Essentially, how well you know and play the game during combat directly results in what rewards you get more than just point and shoot.

    Tera is a nice example of a similar style, but yeah it's definitely not what i'd consider hack and slash. Hack and slash is pure speed through melee combat, or just direct combat straight from your actions rather than waiting for abilities to come off CD before hitting them again. In most cases i'd also consider hack and slash to combine this with chaining abilities, another thing that's lacking in mmos so far. Both the ability to chain your own moves together ala DMC as well as with the introduction of other players, chaining moves with other players. It could get very complex and in-depth, which is why i mentioned it in the OP for a possible strategy of tackling the toughest pve bosses


    This video gives you a decent example of an average-skilled party (in average gear) against a lvl 60 raid boss. It's not the best video to showcase chain stuns on the boss, but an evie was pulling off some good ice spears (which freezes the boss in place). In a well balanced raid you can have Karoks clash, Vellas cyclone, and Evies reverse gravity to keep a boss pinned.

    As for combos, the game is all combos with the exception of staff Evie and Kai. There are SP moves you can use which have cooldowns (most of the stuns), but that's more for special abilities like the stuns I mentioned earlier.

    Anyway if you watch the video, you can see in several instances where the player over extends his combo in a bad spot and gets hit as a result. Is it possible to be so good that you don't get hit at all and do top damage? Absolutely. That's what separates this game from a lot of other MMOs - timing and positioning, the two critical factors. It takes a lot of practice to be able to telegraph every boss' move and know when to slip dash/dodge/block/stormstep etc., which is why the game actually takes skill to be a master at. He does do some very good dodges throughout the fight though, definitely an above average Lann player.

    As much as I like Tera, it is less viceral than Vindictus. It's more of a hybrid between your traditional MMO and action combat by sharing elements from both styles.
    Last edited by Goosie; 2013-02-07 at 09:40 PM.

  18. #18
    ok so I just checked out some videos of vindictus...idk why I didn't check it out sooner lol. It definitely looks pretty interesting. I've played maplestory for a very long time when I was younger so I can deal with the "grind" especially if the combat is fun. Going to download and try it out when i get home.

  19. #19
    I'd imagine that latency would kill any chance for a true "hack and slash" mmo to be popular. Maybe a small-large group style game, but not a true MMO.

  20. #20
    goosie, I got another question for you. Does vindictus have solo stuff like bams from tera?

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