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  1. #21
    Elemental Lord Kaleredar's Avatar
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    The strongest misconception is that people still think these reps are "required," and, because "everyone" "has to do them" we should be "able to do them any way we please." Daily grinds could certainly be made more palpable, but reducing them to something that you'll "just happen to get through" is out of the question in my book.

    Frankly, the Tabard design is a cop-out. It's completely irrelevant to any semblance of faction existence. You might as well give someone an item that says "run X number of dungeons and then we mail you an item."

    Likewise, instating some straight-grind faction sounds god-awful. People "tolerated" horrible grinds in the past because they didn't know any better (or maybe they just didn't like to whine as much.) Grinding warbeads was never "fun," it's just that the concept of "tabards" and such was non existent at the time.

    I do, however, like the idea of putting in dropped/found items (like the tillers) in ADDITION to daily quests to act as a supplement. If someone feels masochistic so inclined, then they can set out attempting to grind up doing only that.

    I also like the idea of tying slivers of rep into dungeons... though I fundamentally dislike how dungeons have degraded into lukewarm pablum at this point. No idea what was wrong with the Cataclysm model, but... I digress.

    My perfect rep model would be rep via (relevant and at least semi-thought involving) heroic dungeons, turn-ins, with a main focus on daily quests for rep.
    "Do not look down, my friend. Even in the darkest of times, there is always hope... Hope for a better day, hope for a new dawn... Or just hope for a good breakfast. You start small, then see what you can get." ~ Covetous Shen
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  2. #22
    I don't see it personally, the dailies were really not that much of a chore *in my opinion*. I just did 1 or 2 factions at a time and I have been exalted with every faction for a very long time now. The 5.1 rep they added was *in my opinion* one of the most fun reps they've ever put in with the great number of lore quest chains it gave you. I can understand at the start of the expansion this was a "issue" for some people but really, six months in if you only did one faction of dailies every couple of days, you'd still be exalted with everything by now. And all this is completely ignoring the fact that valor gear is gated itself, to 1 every couple of weeks AND you have a non faction related way of spending valor. I guess I just *personally* do not see why this is still an issue for some people.

  3. #23
    Blizzard totally screwed up the system for folks like me who have a bunch of high-level alts and just want to casually play the game with most of them.

    Right now when I log on to a max level toon my "what to do?" is something like this:

    * Missing LFR wings? Run them.
    * Not missing LFR wings? Log out, or re-run wings (for 45 valor and NOTHING else) anyway.

    And that's it.

    I don't want to run dailies, not the tedious dailies involving nuking down 350k HP mobs on my primarily-healing toons. I haven't got GL to revered or finished my farm. I'm sure I will someday but holy crap they ARE tedious.

    Scenarios? Award gear that I don't need, award valor I for the most part can't use.

    5-mans? See "Scenarios."

    Professions? Maxed them all out around a week after MoP released.

    Holidays? Done almost all of them.

    Old content? Sometimes I solo some old raids and fill my bags up with stuff that has to go into one of my bank alt's guild vaults. Not too exciting if repeated regularly.

    Honestly for all of its faults, Cataclysm 4.3 was WAY kinder to me than MoP. Really, when I log in, and I'm done with LFR, I just stare at the screen thinking "What would be fun?". And keep staring.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-08 at 01:41 AM ----------

    If scenarios and 5-mans rewarded coins and rep ... well, they would actually be rewarding something.

  4. #24
    Elemental Lord Arbs's Avatar
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    Unless your OCD like me having to have every rep Exalted, if not it bugs me lol

    I continue to stand by that Wrath & Cata spoiled people and if the daily system from TBC stayed that way people would still complain like they do today. You didn't get the faction tabard until you were exalted, But you didn't have to do dailies for most of them, you could do the dailies or do dungeons aswell. But there was no LFD so you had to spam trade for people and that toke along time.

    TBC Rep toke more work than MoP, but people who started in Wrath / Cata wouldn't know that they had the easy routes. Once LFD released everyone got the tabards and run dungeons like a mad man / women & thats only thing I blame LFD for is making people actually run dungeons, get rep that was actually useless & gave diddly at the end just an achievement that anyone could get in a day.
    Last edited by Arbs; 2013-02-08 at 12:15 PM.

  5. #25
    Titan Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galaxtrixias View Post
    I've allways liked grinding reputation before. There were just a small amount of daily quest for that faction (let's say 4), but you could also gain reputation by collecting emblems (or something similar). The daily quests took about 30min to complete mostly, and if you wanted to grind the emblems, allmost all the mobs at the location, or zone dropped them (let's say with 10% drop rate), in this way you could do it the hardcore way, and keep grinding those emblems, or you could just spend a little time doing the dalies every day, and reach you goal that way.(ofcourse it takes more time in days, but in time played, it might be even less than farming the emblems).

    They should just rethink the way how it goes now. No-one with not that much time want to spend all their precious time on just dalies. So having just a small amount of dalies for a faction, should do the trick i think
    I agree with this. I don't like that now we're gated, we're forced to wait 8 weeks to be exalted with the Golden Lotus, no way around it. In BC you could be exalted in a few hours if you went hard core and grinded it, or in a few weeks. In other words, you chose the pace.

    This time, Blizzard chooses the pace. It's false gating and there's no point to it.

    If a video game developer removed tumors from players, they'd whine about nerfing their loss in weight and access to radiation powers. -Cracked.com

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    I agree with this. I don't like that now we're gated, we're forced to wait 8 weeks to be exalted with the Golden Lotus, no way around it. In BC you could be exalted in a few hours if you went hard core and grinded it, or in a few weeks. In other words, you chose the pace.

    This time, Blizzard chooses the pace. It's false gating and there's no point to it.
    There might actually be, and it comes from a review of MoP I read that stated that they could be trying to extend the amount of time it takes to finish everything because of the raid bosses not being that hard this time around. Thus, Blizz is trying to artificially extend the play time required to actually complete things because if they didn't, people wouldn't have anything to do because they would down raid bosses very handily.

    In other words, the review accused Blizz of "padding" the game and putting tedious things into the game as a requirement. It's similar to what happened in a game like Mafia 2. Good game there, but it was maligned by artificial extension of play time when there shouldn't be. Challenges that are not really challenges but mundane tasks that anyone can do but, if your finger should slip and you just happened to get killed doing the mundane task that shouldn't be there, then the checkpoint is back doing a much tougher part of a mission that you would've rather liked the chance to save after doing.

    That's what that review (which I wish I saved the link for) said Blizz was doing. Might not be far off. Not sure about the raid boss difficulty thing, but it seems as though they have a point with the daily system and asking why it has to be the only way to get rep. Don't understand why it has to be either dailies or tabards, and why there can't be other ways (like the 5.2 stuff) that can be thought up.
    I hear it's amazing when the famous purple stuffed worm in flap-jaw space, with the tuning fork, does a raw blink on Hari-Kari rock! I need scissors! 61!

  7. #27
    So the 5.0 and 5.1 vp items are being cut down in price. Are they lifting the rep requirements for these items? I sure hope so. Pretty silly that I can oly get gear from my weekly MSV run on my alt. who knows maybe after all the sub loss's they'll start handing out gear to keep people who have Alts interested.

  8. #28
    Or bring back tabards and bring rep back to dungeons and raids. DOUBLE DIPPING HAS ALWAYS BEEN A PART OF THIS GAME TO ONE EXTENT OR ANOTHER. Fuck dailies. Running the same god damn quest over and over again is HARDLY any more immersive or lore friendly than championing a faction with a tabard. Even if it wasn't I wouldn't give a fuck because that's a lore or theme concern and not a game play one.

    Saying it's not a fucking requirement is a fucking cop out. End of story. It's poorly designed, grindy, and unrewarding. I can say lots of things are fucking optional and address every single god damn complaint in that fashion. Don't like warrior burst? GUESS WHAAT BRO PVP IS OPTIONAL! Don''t like harder dungeons? GUESS WHAT BRO DUNGEONS ARE OPTIONAL! You fucking name it. That isn't an excuse for poor design. Dailies and the rep behind them ARE POOR DESIGN. PERIOD. They are slow, unrewarding, grindy and punitive for those who can't log in every day. Fuck dailies I cannot stress that enough. Bringing rep back to the dungeons is a good first move on their part. Eventually they'll get back to tabards, the developers just have to go back to ignoring the hardcore E peen crowd that's concerned with how I get my epics and want's me to "work" for my gear by the virtual sweat of my brow. Honestly a part of me wishes they had the balls to embrace every regressive and punitive notion. Get rid of lfr, get rid of lfd, get rid of flying mounts. do it all. Just do it Blizzard. Have some fucking balls. Embrace it. That way when the sub losses are in the millions we can move past the idea that returning to some mythological time in warcraft history will be of any benefit to the game. The HISTORY of the success of world of warcraft has been a history of progresive changes made to make players lives easier. Mists is the first clear reversal of that.
    Last edited by Leonard McCoy; 2013-02-08 at 04:14 PM.

  9. #29
    Legendary! Granyala's Avatar
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    Or bring back tabards and bring rep back to dungeons and raids. DOUBLE DIPPING HAS ALWAYS BEEN A PART OF THIS GAME TO ONE EXTENT OR ANOTHER. Fuck dailies. Running the same god damn quest over and over again is HARDLY any more immersive or lore friendly than championing a faction with a tabard. Even if it wasn't I wouldn't give a fuck because that's a lore or theme concern and not a game play one.
    Do dailies on main, once exalted you get tabard option for alts since you've seen the story. (Quests still available for alts if you so desire)
    Also get double rep commendation at exalted.

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  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Do dailies on main, once exalted you get tabard option for alts since you've seen the story. (Quests still available for alts if you so desire)
    Also get double rep commendation at exalted.
    I mean I guess I could live with that compromise but what if you don't really care about the story? The root of all of this meshegoes is that lots of people were happy farming gear and rep out of dungeons. They had lots of toons to do it on and they were okay with that. I don't understand why I should even have to do the dailies on one toon? Who cares if I see the story? I didn't buy MoP because I thought it would be Faulkner..

  11. #31
    In 5.2 they're adding rep to the Tiller's farm, to the first dungeon and scenario of the day, they're adding account-bound items that drop off world rares and give 1000 rep with a Pandaria faction. Anyone who says Blizzard isn't listening to people on this issue are either full of crap or pining for the days when you could blow from neutral to exalted in multiple reputations in a day. They tried that before and all they got was bellyaching that people had nothing to do but squat in X city and read trade chat all day long, or level up their tenth alt's tradeskills.

    No matter what they do they're going to irritate someone. Hell, if they brought back rep tabards I would be irritated.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Drilnos View Post
    In 5.2 they're adding rep to the Tiller's farm, to the first dungeon and scenario of the day, they're adding account-bound items that drop off world rares and give 1000 rep with a Pandaria faction. Anyone who says Blizzard isn't listening to people on this issue are either full of crap or pining for the days when you could blow from neutral to exalted in multiple reputations in a day. They tried that before and all they got was bellyaching that people had nothing to do but squat in X city and read trade chat all day long, or level up their tenth alt's tradeskills.

    No matter what they do they're going to irritate someone. Hell, if they brought back rep tabards I would be irritated.
    Yea I was okay with sitting in the city and reading trade chat. I mean that's not what I did and you had plenty to do in cata outside of sitting in org/sw, you just chose not to do it (in most cases because IT WASN'T COMPELLING ENOUGH CAUSE NOTHING HAD GEAR OUTSIDE OF DUNGEONS and apparently people ONLY do shit for gear...) but never the less I was okay sitting in trade.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    I agree with this. I don't like that now we're gated, we're forced to wait 8 weeks to be exalted with the Golden Lotus, no way around it. In BC you could be exalted in a few hours if you went hard core and grinded it, or in a few weeks. In other words, you chose the pace.
    Not capping players is bad for the game.
    Isn't it weird, that there's talk about "choosing the pace", but that apparently doesn't apply in MoP? People who feel like they have to do all dailies asap? Why aren't they "choosing their pace"? because they're the same players that'd gladly grind for several hours, cap and.. what?

    This time, Blizzard chooses the pace. It's false gating and there's no point to it.
    Keeping players from progressing too fast or burning out is not pointless.

    And of course, Blizzard doesn't want the world to become obsolete again. If dailies become pointless, so does the world. Which is why I think it's a mistake to add championing to dungeons.
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  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Leonard McCoy View Post
    Yea I was okay with sitting in the city and reading trade chat. I mean that's not what I did and you had plenty to do in cata outside of sitting in org/sw, you just chose not to do it (in most cases because IT WASN'T COMPELLING ENOUGH CAUSE NOTHING HAD GEAR OUTSIDE OF DUNGEONS and apparently people ONLY do shit for gear...) but never the less I was okay sitting in trade.
    You are one voice awash in a sea of just under ten million, and the other 999,999 all want something different, to varying degrees, than you do.

  15. #35
    Legendary! Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonard McCoy View Post
    I mean I guess I could live with that compromise but what if you don't really care about the story? The root of all of this meshegoes is that lots of people were happy farming gear and rep out of dungeons. They had lots of toons to do it on and they were okay with that. I don't understand why I should even have to do the dailies on one toon? Who cares if I see the story? I didn't buy MoP because I thought it would be Faulkner..
    *shrug* Don't ask me, ask them, Doc.

    If I were to design WoWs Rep system, I would just put in a weekly Rep cap and let you farm it however you'd please.
    (Dungeon rep / Dailies / Grind stuff /Farm stuff & deliver etc)

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  16. #36
    I like that when you get revered you can buy the thing to get extra rep each quest (made it ALOT more reasonable) i mean look at august celestials some quests give 1000-2000 a day which means from revered to exalted would take about 10-11 days which is a while i mean i don't like doing dailies. Now the dominance point dailies i really dont mind i actually feel as if i'm doing something for the horde and progressing the story makes me excited to know what more will happen! Blizzard did a great job on the dominance point quests. The shado pan dailies i hated the most (protector yi i hope i never see you again) i didn't know about the extra rep thing so i did all of them the old way and i hated them so much (i didnt know about the extra rep since i was in the hospital for 3 months). I DO believe there should be another way to gain rep a balance between lets say 3 factions tabart, 3 dailies or maybe even another way.
    'T Vlaamse heir staat immer pal, Daar 't winnen of daar 't sterven zal. Alhier, Aldaar aan lange lansen de leeuwen dansen, de leeuwen dansen.... En de leeuwen dansen, de leeuwen dansen.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimfrost View Post
    I like that when you get revered you can buy the thing to get extra rep each quest (made it ALOT more reasonable) i mean look at august celestials some quests give 1000-2000 a day which means from revered to exalted would take about 10-11 days which is a while i mean i don't like doing dailies. Now the dominance point dailies i really dont mind i actually feel as if i'm doing something for the horde and progressing the story makes me excited to know what more will happen! Blizzard did a great job on the dominance point quests. The shado pan dailies i hated the most (protector yi i hope i never see you again) i didn't know about the extra rep thing so i did all of them the old way and i hated them so much (i didnt know about the extra rep since i was in the hospital for 3 months). I DO believe there should be another way to gain rep a balance between lets say 3 factions tabart, 3 dailies or maybe even another way.
    http://www.wowhead.com/forums&topic=210028

    There are several new ways to acquire reputation in Patch 5.2. Draztal has clarified some of the ways below. To recap:

    Completing work orders on Sunsong Ranch will grant reputation with a faction.
    You can now earn bonus reputation for your first dungeon and scenario of the day. You can select which reputation you choose to champion by selecting it from the reputation panel on the character screen.
    Zandalari Warbringer currently on the PTR can drop Stolen Celestial Insignia, Stolen Golden Lotus Insignia, Stolen Klaxxi Insignia, Stolen Shado-Pan Insignia.
    The dungeons and scenarios give 700 and 350 rep apiece, doubled by commendations. Stolen Insignias give 1000 rep each, also doubled by commendations, and are bound to account. The farm work orders are 300/600 rep per faction per day, limit two.

    So if you have a commendation, you can get 2700 rep for a given faction in a day, 600 for a second faction, and hunt down troll rare spawns for 2000 rep boosts in random factions. And you can do dailies on top of that if you really want to.

  18. #38
    What about just abandoning whole reputation idea and go on with better ideas.

  19. #39
    I figured they would make the tabards from the factions BoA, and let those enable you to gain rep in dungeons. The tabards would still require exalted to purchase, so you would have to grind out the reps the "hard way" at least once.

    The double rep tokens things at revered are pretty nice, though. That said, I would still rather have the tabard thing I mentioned just now as an option. That way I can work on VP and rep simultaneously when on my alts.

    To say they aren't working on improving the rep grind, though, would be foolish, especially looking at some of the 5.2 stuff.

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