Thread: LSD2 in 5.2 ?

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  1. #1

    LSD2 viable in 5.2 ?

    So, with the cleave nerfs i wonder if LSD2 will be viable again ?
    Does the comp have enough damage to melt teams under the pressure ?

    Anyone got a clue about this ?
    Last edited by Xudam; 2013-02-08 at 09:19 AM.

  2. #2
    ouch. the title is so confusing. not what I expected to see, haha.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerevar View Post
    ouch. the title is so confusing. not what I expected to see, haha.
    What did you expect ?

  4. #4
    I hope not. This comp is aids.

  5. #5
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Not really, the main strength of the whole comp is kinda gone, which was spreading strong dots.
    Affliction dots are a lot weaker, and boomkins have a dot less, making it a lot easier to deal with the pressure then in cataclysm.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    Not really, the main strength of the whole comp is kinda gone, which was spreading strong dots.
    Affliction dots are a lot weaker, and boomkins have a dot less, making it a lot easier to deal with the pressure then in cataclysm.
    why is it that everything you post makes very little sense...

    How did boomkins 'lose' a dot? Are you factoring in sunfire? Have you ever played a boomkin?
    How has the 'main strength' of the comp disappeared? A boomkin can set up a decent beam/vortex and lock out 1-2 players, warlocks can now instantly apply most dots and spread them within 2-3gcds, with huge potential burst from DS/MG channeling on beamed targets..
    Shamans now have stormlash totem giving dot comps even more power.

    The comp WAS aids back then, it's aids when played by people with half a brain now, and it'll continue to be aids next season.
    Last edited by Lap; 2013-02-08 at 12:37 PM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Lap View Post
    why is it that everything you post makes very little sense...

    How did boomkins 'lose' a dot? Are you factoring in sunfire? Have you ever played a boomkin?
    How has the 'main strength' of the comp disappeared? A boomkin can set up a decent beam/vortex and lock out 1-2 players, warlocks can now instantly apply most dots and spread them within 2-3gcds, with huge potential burst from DS/MG channeling on beamed targets..
    Shamans now have stormlash totem giving dot comps even more power.

    The comp WAS aids back then, it's aids when played by people with half a brain now, and it'll continue to be aids next season.
    Well, atleast i havnt seen any LSD2 comps recently, do you think it will make a comeback in 5.2 ?

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Xudam View Post
    Well, atleast i havnt seen any LSD2 comps recently, do you think it will make a comeback in 5.2 ?
    I think the Moonkin / Lock will be vulnerable for Rogues and WW Monks, which will very likely become a serious problem with 5.2.

    If the Lock specs into Shadowfury / Howl of Terror this Comp can seriously piss off with constant AoE CC's, but then again if WW and Rogues jump on the Moonkin or Lock, they will have a hard time because peeling those 2 will be quite difficult.
    Too often, we are mistaken for druidic types. perhaps that's true for some shaman, but do not let yourself be plagued by the ignorant belief that we are always peaceful.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Xudam View Post
    Well, atleast i havnt seen any LSD2 comps recently, do you think it will make a comeback in 5.2 ?
    I dont see why not. Boomkins have always been good targets to train, so rogue overbuffs/ww buffs really does not change too much.
    Just peel for your boomkin and set up a vort/beam kill on a healer, ez.
    (I've played LSD and firechicken 3s to 1900-2kish this season, most games vs KFC and other war comps that are supposed counters)

  10. #10
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lap View Post
    why is it that everything you post makes very little sense...

    How did boomkins 'lose' a dot? Are you factoring in sunfire? Have you ever played a boomkin?
    Insect swarm, or have you forgotten. Sure you have sunfire, however, unlike insect swarm, you can't just use it whenever you want. Instead of spamming 2 dots, you spam 1 dot and a bit later you start spamming the other one. You only have 1 dot per time available and by the time you cast the other, your first is about to fall off.
    In a PvP environment that is.

    And yes, I have...

    How has the 'main strength' of the comp disappeared? A boomkin can set up a decent beam/vortex and lock out 1-2 players, warlocks can now instantly apply most dots and spread them within 2-3gcds, with huge potential burst from DS/MG channeling on beamed targets..
    What exactly have the huge potential burst and the vortex + beam combo to do with it?
    LSD2 was all about overwhelming the other team with the damage from the dots. There was so much damage going on that healers couldn't just dispel due UA, because of that they would oom and grant you an easy win. That, or they couldn't keep up with the healing so you could just starsurge a low target for the win.
    It wasn't about burst, it wasn't about a silly combo, it was just about spreading dots on everything that moved and laughing at how they couldn't keep up with it.

    Also, instant dots are a nice thing, except that the damage is pathetic compared to cataclysm.
    So, a warlock with weaker dots, a boomkin that most of the time only have 1 dot up, packed up in a comp that was all about spreading dots... Yeah, so good >.>

    Shamans now have stormlash totem giving dot comps even more power
    Now only if stormlash worked on DoTs. Have you ever played a shaman?

  11. #11
    Lol, wow you have no idea how boomkins work now.... and you are partially correct that stormlash does not work with dots, but it does work with Malefic Grasp. Also, when you are going to beam/vortex someone for a kill the boomkin will be using Celestial Alignment, Nature's Vigil and Incarnation which means he will be putting up both empowered dots in one gcd and will probably have waited for a starsurge proc before doing this so followed by a starfire/starsurge combo with the lock dots ticking and him channeling all while the people in beam can't do anything for atleast 5-6 seconds. That is minimum 3 hits from druid and each MG tick from lock that benefit from stormlash, but not that it matters...

    The only problem the comp will have is two melee. It will be hard to peel both and put out decent pressure.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    Insect swarm, or have you forgotten. Sure you have sunfire, however, unlike insect swarm, you can't just use it whenever you want. Instead of spamming 2 dots, you spam 1 dot and a bit later you start spamming the other one. You only have 1 dot per time available and by the time you cast the other, your first is about to fall off.
    In a PvP environment that is.

    And yes, I have...
    You can DoT both Moonfire and Sunfire, it's just one will be weaker while out of eclipse. Boomkins still have 2 DoTs because of this. Also, while Celestial Alignment is up you can use both with full eclipse benefits. If you played lazer-chicken, it obviously wasn't this season.

  13. #13
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aherooffools View Post
    You can DoT both Moonfire and Sunfire, it's just one will be weaker while out of eclipse. Boomkins still have 2 DoTs because of this. Also, while Celestial Alignment is up you can use both with full eclipse benefits. If you played lazer-chicken, it obviously wasn't this season.
    Looks like I'm actually wrong for once, and yes, I didn't play it this season.
    Nonetheless, all the other issues still remain.

  14. #14
    Honestly I can see it making some kind of comeback, at the very least it will be stronger in 5.2.

    Boomkins now get 7 second cyclone, mass entanglement down to a 30 sec cd to spec into against melee cleaves, and really dont know what some of the other changes do since I dont play a boom. Locks UA is way more painful to dispel and get some minor survivability buffs.

    Still not sure how viable it will be but it will definitely be better than now.

  15. #15
    Niberion is somewhat right. In previous seasons the main strength of the comp was disgusting DoT pressure on 3 targets which was barely healable. In Cataclysm the spread damage from a LSD or Shadowplay with double heroic cunning was so strong that after 10-20 seconds into a game the other team would be put on the back foot, with just DoTs. As soon as the other team pulled back and started going defensive, it was pretty much a win for the LSD/Shadowplay because the longer the game, the more chance of winning for them.

    This playstyle hasn't been viable in MoP yet because of comps like kittycleave, TSG and KFC requiring insane heals and peels, which boomkin and lock dont have. The way Boomkin and Lock do damage has also changed. Both classes have moved from having heavy-hitting DoTs to having small-hitting DoTs with a main nuke. This means that spreading DoTs doesnt do anywhere near as much damage as previous seasons, and the DoT damage is easily outhealable for any healer apart from Disc.

    All in all, the comp really struggles against melee cleaves and if anything even more will be around next season. It can't really 'drain' teams anymore and even though they both do a lot of damage, the 1-shot beam/vortex burst is quite avoidable... and goes better with a Mage or Warrior.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Theed View Post
    I hope not. This comp is aids.
    Shadowcleave, Thugcleave, RMP etc are just as annoying, theoretically

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-08 at 11:53 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by thisnamesucks View Post
    Honestly I can see it making some kind of comeback, at the very least it will be stronger in 5.2.

    Boomkins now get 7 second cyclone, mass entanglement down to a 30 sec cd to spec into against melee cleaves, and really dont know what some of the other changes do since I dont play a boom. Locks UA is way more painful to dispel and get some minor survivability buffs.

    Still not sure how viable it will be but it will definitely be better than now.
    Boomie burst is being nerfed, so no, I don't think so

  17. #17
    Stood in the Fire Machomaije's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    Insect swarm, or have you forgotten. Sure you have sunfire, however, unlike insect swarm, you can't just use it whenever you want. Instead of spamming 2 dots, you spam 1 dot and a bit later you start spamming the other one. You only have 1 dot per time available and by the time you cast the other, your first is about to fall off.
    In a PvP environment that is.
    What on earth are you talking about? "Only have 1 dot per time available and by the time you cast the other, your first is about to fall off"? ???? Have you ever played a boomkin? Do you even know the class?You have both sunfire and moonfire available at all times, just like you had moonfire/sunfire and insect swarm. Maybe you didnt know, but they added sunfire PERMANENT for boomkins, not just when your in eclipse. Losing Insect swarm isnt really a loss, because we got sunfire.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    Insect swarm, or have you forgotten. Sure you have sunfire, however, unlike insect swarm, you can't just use it whenever you want. Instead of spamming 2 dots, you spam 1 dot and a bit later you start spamming the other one. You only have 1 dot per time available and by the time you cast the other, your first is about to fall off.
    In a PvP environment that is.

    And yes, I have...



    What exactly have the huge potential burst and the vortex + beam combo to do with it?
    LSD2 was all about overwhelming the other team with the damage from the dots. There was so much damage going on that healers couldn't just dispel due UA, because of that they would oom and grant you an easy win. That, or they couldn't keep up with the healing so you could just starsurge a low target for the win.
    It wasn't about burst, it wasn't about a silly combo, it was just about spreading dots on everything that moved and laughing at how they couldn't keep up with it.

    Also, instant dots are a nice thing, except that the damage is pathetic compared to cataclysm.
    So, a warlock with weaker dots, a boomkin that most of the time only have 1 dot up, packed up in a comp that was all about spreading dots... Yeah, so good >.>



    Now only if stormlash worked on DoTs. Have you ever played a shaman?
    i'm truly astounded. As two other people have mentioned, you have absolutely no idea how Boomkins work.
    Stormlash is actually an amazing support cd for MG (an afflic locks main source of dmg this season), A boomkin can also benefit greatly from it

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-09 at 12:49 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrean View Post
    Lol, wow you have no idea how boomkins work now.... and you are partially correct that stormlash does not work with dots, but it does work with Malefic Grasp. Also, when you are going to beam/vortex someone for a kill the boomkin will be using Celestial Alignment, Nature's Vigil and Incarnation which means he will be putting up both empowered dots in one gcd and will probably have waited for a starsurge proc before doing this so followed by a starfire/starsurge combo with the lock dots ticking and him channeling all while the people in beam can't do anything for atleast 5-6 seconds. That is minimum 3 hits from druid and each MG tick from lock that benefit from stormlash, but not that it matters...

    The only problem the comp will have is two melee. It will be hard to peel both and put out decent pressure.
    My thoughts precisely, please take note Nib
    Last edited by Lap; 2013-02-09 at 12:57 AM.

  19. #19
    I love how if a poster makes one mistake than all other points are invalidated. If an LSD2 no longer depends on sick DoT pressure, but rather on "burst", why bring one where you have classes that do that much better? e.g: Warrior, Mage, Feral, etc...
    How is popping a stormlash better with LSD2 than say WLS with a demo lock? Also don't forget that warlocks lose their instant fear next patch, making peels even harder.
    Melee vs caster balance in WoD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9F0Ehgx_Q8

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenexis View Post
    I love how if a poster makes one mistake than all other points are invalidated. If an LSD2 no longer depends on sick DoT pressure, but rather on "burst", why bring one where you have classes that do that much better? e.g: Warrior, Mage, Feral, etc...
    How is popping a stormlash better with LSD2 than say WLS with a demo lock? Also don't forget that warlocks lose their instant fear next patch, making peels even harder.
    True, however the poster in question tends to post a lot whilst knowing very little (and making it painfully, cringe-worthingly obvious to most readers). He does however have a point here and that is - dot dmg is weaker than it once was, but this does not mean the comp is 'bad' or 'weak'.
    It revolves around vort/beam kills now, with moderate dot pressure. A well-placed beam can also allow for some solid MG uptime, combined with DS/on-use trinket/SL - the pressure (in my exp) can be devastating.
    Basically, it is a harder comp to play now, but i'll most likely rep it next season~
    Last edited by Lap; 2013-02-09 at 01:20 AM.

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