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  1. #1

    [HEROIC] 25 man Sha of Fear brick wall ?

    Hello, Yesterday we managed to kill HC Tsulong for our first time, so seems like we finally came to the final boss of this raiding tier.
    From what I've heard thos boss is a brick wall, on our server only 1 guild managed to kill it so far (10man).
    We are a casual guild, but yet we are pushing everything we can !
    I tryed to look up tactics for the last phase but can't really find anything about it.
    Again I'm asking you guys to help me out on this.
    Wich are the things to look out for ? Any tricks / tips to help us out on our first attempts at sunday ?
    Totally clueless about the heroic only phase.
    Anyhelp in any way is very much appreciated.
    Thanks !

  2. #2
    He's a "brick wall" because he's last of 16 bosses, not because it's insanely difficult fight. It's also long and pretty boring. Still:

    - Check 10 man threads? Lots of information still apply, plus they have comments from 25 man raiders.

    - Use 4 tanks. It trivializes dps check on platforms before you get haste buff and it's one of main advantages over 10 man. Sure, it's not that important in the long run, but it helps being able to continue even if one of groups fails - and still being able to get the buff.

    Edit: - Obviously, ignore adds on main platform in P1. They have a lot of hitpoints and even if you do manage to kill them, you could spend that time on boss. Learn to dodge Bolts properly, don't stay inside "safe zone" all the time, remember that Bolts are often aimed 'near you' but not 'at you'. All the basic stuff from normal mode.

    - Get some addon for Dread Spray. There are several options, not sure which one is best. Being able to reliably dodge DS is crucial, otherwise there's no chance your healer will keep up with the damage. Also, learn to know what you can do to ignore Death Blossom - picking up orbs during that part is important, plus being able to dps speeds up the process.

    - Have people use max single target dps specs until you get the buff. Having good AOE helps in phase 2, but is completely useless in P1. Once you get haste buff, slightly lower single target isn't a problem anymore.

    - If you get ported to a platform at <70%, don't engage the crossbow add. It's unlikely you'll kill him in time to get Fearless and only risk dying to random crap. If you kill the add *just* before P2, don't use Fearless just yet and wait until it's almost transition - full uptime on Fearless in P2 is a nice bonus. Again, not that important in 25, but still helps.

    - Make macro for ball throwing. Even though breaking Huddle asap isn't nearly as important as it is in 10 man, your dedicated ball tossers should be able to react quickly or get killed by adds.

    - Call for external cooldowns on Dread Thrash -> Submerge (-> Implacable Strike). Nothing quite like burning your defensive cooldowns and have the big guy dissapear for several seconds. And instagib you right after they end.

    - Don't stop moving on Spout. It's not just a single hit, people shouldn't stop just because they evaded the first one

    - Find The Center Of The Room. It's harder and more important than it seems.

    - Stop pulling my leg here. "Casual guild", "we looked for tactics" (and ignored like 5 different threads in this very forums)
    Last edited by KaPe; 2013-02-08 at 06:13 PM.

  3. #3
    Dont break huddles with the ball. Just heal through them. Use raid CDs depending on how many healers get huddles. example: 3 healers get huddled, Rally Tranq and AM and have everyone who can heal heal. On 25 man it is more trouble then it is worth. You will have people getting gibbed by not throwing too fast when they are not used to throwing it.

    Hunters and Mages and Shadow priests are the best at throwing. If the boss is emerging ontop of them just pot the immunity.

    If you tanks die it is their fault. No tank should ever be gibbed from 100%. Use your own CDs or call for externals. We had 3 paladins and a disc so we used CDs pretty freely.

    On the 2nd set of 7 adds use pots. On the 1st set of 8 lust. After that burn the boss.
    Last edited by Gliff; 2013-02-08 at 03:57 PM.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by KaPe View Post
    He's a "brick wall" because he's last of 16 bosses, not because it's insanely difficult fight. It's also long and pretty boring. Still:

    - Check 10 man threads? Lots of information still apply, plus they have comments from 25 man raiders.

    - Use 4 tanks. It trivializes dps check on platforms before you get haste buff and it's one of main advantages over 10 man. Sure, it's not that important in the long run, but it helps being able to continue even if one of groups fails - and still being able to get the buff.

    Edit: - Obviously, ignore adds on main platform in P1. They have a lot of hitpoints and even if you do manage to kill them, you could spend that time on boss. Learn to dodge Bolts properly, don't stay inside "safe zone" all the time, remember that Bolts are often aimed 'near you' but not 'at you'. All the basic stuff from normal mode.

    - Get some addon for Dread Spray. There are several options, not sure which one is best. Being able to reliably dodge DR is crucial, otherwise there's no chance your healer will keep up with the damage. Also, learn to know what you can do to ignore Death Blossom - picking up orbs during that part is important, plus being able to dps speeds up the process.

    - Have people use max single target dps specs until you get the buff. Having good AOE helps in phase 2, but is completely useless in P1. Once you get haste buff, slightly lower single target isn't a problem anymore.

    - If you get ported to a platform at <70%, don't engage the crossbow add. It's unlikely you'll kill him in time to get Fearless and only risk dying to random crap. If you kill the add *just* before P2, don't use Fearless just yet and wait until it's almost transition - full uptime on Fearless in P2 is a nice bonus. Again, not that important in 25, but still helps.

    - Make macro for ball throwing. Even though breaking Huddle asap isn't nearly as important as it is in 10 man, your dedicated ball tossers should be able to react quickly or get killed by adds.

    - Call for external cooldowns on Dread Thrash -> Submerge (-> Implacable Strike). Nothing quite like burning your defensive cooldowns and have the big guy dissapear for several seconds. And instagib you right after they end.

    - Don't stop moving on Spout. It's not just a single hit, people shouldn't stop just because they evaded the first one

    - Find The Center Of The Room. It's harder and more important than it seems.

    - Stop pulling my leg here. "Casual guild", "we looked for tactics" (and ignored like 5 different threads in this very forums)
    When I use the search button on MMO when typing in sha of fear heroic nothing pops up just
    he following errors occurred with your search
    This forum requires that you wait 5 seconds between searches. Please try again in 4 seconds.
    don't know if I'm retarded or if search button doesn't work here
    Btw, thanks for your tips will be veryhelpfull.
    Last edited by xenoxl; 2013-02-08 at 05:39 PM.

  5. #5
    KaPe summed it up pretty nicely. As far as your original question goes, no, Sha of Fear is not a brick wall (when compared to other brick walls). It took us only 4 days of attempts to kill him (that was with 502-504 gear which you should have by now).

    You might notice p2 being seemingly impossible due to how slowly the boss's hp drops and that more and more adds come. When we had a 25% wipe (which at the time was our best attempt) I was wondering how the hell we could get even lower than that but once the bouncers get co-ordination down and you know how to ramp up damage on adds as their number increases it will get smoother. (For example we had more people going on them for every wave that spawned more adds than the previous one. We also ignored the first 3 waves where you get 1 add -> 2 adds -> 2 adds and focused mainly on boss just because we have lust during that time and damage from spines when tossing the light isn't high.)

  6. #6
    The boss MUST be positioned correctly every time. If the adds are not passing through the centre of his hitbox and staying there you are losing an amazing amount of cleave damage on both boss and adds. Bad positioning will lose you at least a full wave of adds, possibly 2-3 if it's truly awful.

    Do not slow the adds until they're passing through the boss. You want as much uptime as possible, slowing them when they get to your person in the centre of the room is a lot of downtime (at least 5-6 seconds for melee cleave). I do the slowing for my guild, DK are very good at it because if the positioning is off for whatever reason you can slow the front line of adds and wait for the back ones to catch up, grouping them faster and ensuring they stay in the boss' hitbox.

  7. #7
    Ok, thanks for the help guys, will get back here after tomorrow's raid !

  8. #8
    The Patient Kluddesu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xenoxl View Post
    on our server only 1 guild managed to kill it so far (10man).
    !
    That number will change very soon. Just sayin / hugs n kisses Loco Motives.
    Loco Motives 16/16 Heroic T14
    Loco Motives 13/13 Heroic T15
    Retired Hunter

  9. #9
    It's a boss that really feels like brick wall at first but once you get into it it's not really as hard it initially feels.

    In phase 1 you want to ignore the adds and just go on the boss, learning the outside platforms will be the hardest part and it's all just about practice. There is an addon called "Sha of Fear assist" which will help immensely, I'd recommend the whole raid to use it. Once you go through phase 1 once you will have a 10% haste buff for all p1 attempts the rest of that night which will trivialize the phase quickly once you get through it once.
    Don't be afraid to go with 4 tanks, at least initially to recover if a platform is slow.

    P2 is a very long phase, but for most of the raid it just boils down to "don't stand in bad stuff", a small amount of people have to learn how to kite the adds with the light ball, and it's just up to them to practice it. Other than that the phase is mostly about how to optimize your DPS. Initially you can just have everyone DPS the boss and only a small amount of people dotting the add, but as the phase prolongs you will need to add more and more people onto the adds.
    My addons:
    Announce Interrupts: Announces in chat when you interrupt a spell.
    Tol Barad Reminder: Reminds you to queue for Tol Barad by printing a message when the battle is approaching.
    EasyLogger: Turns on /combatlog inside raid instances, and off outside.
    Simple class resource bars: Paladin Rogue Shaman Monk Priest

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Sildor View Post
    It's a boss that really feels like brick wall at first but once you get into it it's not really as hard it initially feels.

    In phase 1 you want to ignore the adds and just go on the boss, learning the outside platforms will be the hardest part and it's all just about practice. There is an addon called "Sha of Fear assist" which will help immensely, I'd recommend the whole raid to use it. Once you go through phase 1 once you will have a 10% haste buff for all p1 attempts the rest of that night which will trivialize the phase quickly once you get through it once.
    Don't be afraid to go with 4 tanks, at least initially to recover if a platform is slow.

    P2 is a very long phase, but for most of the raid it just boils down to "don't stand in bad stuff", a small amount of people have to learn how to kite the adds with the light ball, and it's just up to them to practice it. Other than that the phase is mostly about how to optimize your DPS. Initially you can just have everyone DPS the boss and only a small amount of people dotting the add, but as the phase prolongs you will need to add more and more people onto the adds.
    In P1, if everyone stands 10 yards away other people, will no one ever get hit by Penetrating Bolt?

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by NeverStop View Post
    In P1, if everyone stands 10 yards away other people, will no one ever get hit by Penetrating Bolt?
    I don't think it's quite that easy. Majority of bolts do miss, but not all of them.

  12. #12
    Ydays raid was the most awefull one in a long time, so didn't have time left for trying sha.
    But after some reading and more searching about the fight I'm getting confused on how the ball/light/huddle thing works.
    So much ppls saying different things on how to handle it and when to pass the ball to person with huddle? Not with huddle ? breaking it yourself ? Wait, what ?
    How to 25mans deal with this? (having a hard time to understand the actual ball tossing tactic)
    We basically got all classes and specs available, so I also wonder who will be optimal.
    Thanks again.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by xenoxl View Post
    Ydays raid was the most awefull one in a long time, so didn't have time left for trying sha.
    But after some reading and more searching about the fight I'm getting confused on how the ball/light/huddle thing works.
    So much ppls saying different things on how to handle it and when to pass the ball to person with huddle? Not with huddle ? breaking it yourself ? Wait, what ?
    How to 25mans deal with this? (having a hard time to understand the actual ball tossing tactic)
    We basically got all classes and specs available, so I also wonder who will be optimal.
    Thanks again.
    You have 3 'ball' players, 1 will be standing in the center of the room and will always have the ball at the start of every new wave so the adds are clumped together as much as possible for easy AOE, the other 2 will be on either side of the boss creating a triangle formation, these 2 players will throw the ball to each other so that the adds continue passing through the boss in a line until they die, once they are either dead or the next submerge has happened and the adds are about to die the ball gets throw back to the center player so he can collect the new wave of adds.

    What you'll effectively have is a square formation with the center ball player and tank opposite each other, the boss in the middle then the 2 kiting ball players either side of the boss.

    The key to p2 is just getting this rotation down and keeping it up for like 13 minutes.

    Also the reason you're probably getting confused about huddles is that 10m has to break them with the light, just ignore this on 25m and heal through them.
    Last edited by Thisisanalt; 2013-02-11 at 01:00 PM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Thisisanalt View Post
    just ignore this on 25m and heal through them.
    I highly recommend breaking at least the first set of huddles (the ones during hero/CD's) and probably the 2nd set as well - more than that and adds take a very long time to get into the middle and at sets of 3+ the damage also gets pretty high.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Frozendekay View Post
    I highly recommend breaking at least the first set of huddles (the ones during hero/CD's) and probably the 2nd set as well - more than that and adds take a very long time to get into the middle and at sets of 3+ the damage also gets pretty high.
    How do you break it then ? PAssing the ball to the players with huddle or ?

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by xenoxl View Post
    How do you break it then ? PAssing the ball to the players with huddle or ?
    Yes.

    Also, don't use 4 tanks. That's silly and a big DPS loss. Use 3 tanks, and during one of the first three cackles have a tank step out of the glowing ring for a second. This means that 3 DPS and a healer will get sent, and these four people will AFK until phase 2. With only two platforms active, you will never need more than 3 tanks.

  17. #17
    Is there any trick to getting the exact middle of the room marked?

    It seems like if the central light holder is off just a bit, it really makes things screwy when you get up to 4-5+ adds crawling in.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by fangless View Post
    Is there any trick to getting the exact middle of the room marked?

    It seems like if the central light holder is off just a bit, it really makes things screwy when you get up to 4-5+ adds crawling in.
    Trial and error

  19. #19
    Is there a real "middle" for p2? For us the adds don't really come that nice together, but sometimes the add from the left and sometimes from the right is too 'fast'.

    Does it work for you perfectly or is this always the case?

  20. #20
    Well you can see on the map there is a lighter area where you're fighting, which is a circle. I presume the other area is blocked off by collision detection, and that the adds come from points around this circle.

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