View Poll Results: Which of these three the hardest pre all hotfixes and nerfs?

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  • C'thun

    123 65.43%
  • FL Ragnaros hc

    50 26.60%
  • Imperial Vizier hc

    15 7.98%
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  1. #1
    Pandaren Monk Velshin's Avatar
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    Toughest almost unbeatable boss of these three pre all nerf

    Hey everyone, which one of these three do you think is the toughest, hardest, and almost unbeatable pre all hotfixes and nerfs?

    For me I will say C'thun from AQ40 he was almost impossible. Imperial Vizier hc was also very tough.
    Last edited by Velshin; 2013-02-08 at 02:09 PM.

  2. #2
    Never got C'thun down he was very difficult and I don't remember any nerfs going out but he was all around hard. I think I remember them nerfing his eye blast to not happen so quickly so people could spread and not be insta chain eye gazed.

  3. #3
    C'thun wasn't nerfed, he was fixed. Beforehand, he was impossible to kill due to a variety of reasons, but the two most important are bugged tentacles and math. The question asks which was the most difficult, and though I never did any of the three, I'm worried that there will be skewed results because C'thun WAS unbeatable, not just almost.

    Found this quote after a quick google search:

    "No. C'thun was unkillable with the current gear available pre-naxx. The DPS requirement to both kill the tentacles before they wiped the raid and actually do real damage to c'thun combined with the mana limitations of the time made it impossible.

    People forget that once upon a time, replenishment was barely in the game. Hunters did not have it. Shadow priests did not have it (spriest was not a viable class at that point). Regular priests did not have it (no shadowfiend). I am also pretty sure that mages and pallies didn't have it either. Druids had innervate (but no tree form, nothing else to lessen healing burdens).

    So not only did you not have enough DPS but you also did not have enough mana and you would go OOM or your healers would go OOM even if you had the DPS.

    It was a mathematically impossible encounter given the game realities at that time."



    furthermore, sometimes tentacles would spawn in places where it was impossible to kill them, allowing them to nuke the raid. The closest anyone got was Nihilim, who flasked the entire raid (a new concept) (this one might be wrong, I didn't double check the info about the Nihilim kill), and got him within 1%.

    I would also argue that it was not completely mathematically impossible. Yogg'saron 0 on release was mathematically impossible, and stars accomplished it by dropping tanks and having hunters kite. The skill difference of the players between Yogg and C'thun though is immense, and Yogg wasn't bugged. This is furthermore supported by the fact that 5 (or was it 6?) guilds killed C'thun the week after the hotfix, which would insinuate it was more the buggy mechanics, not the incredible DPS requirement, that made the fight impossible. But again, you have to consider 'the realities of the game at the time'.

    I won't answer the poll, since I didn't do any of them. But I doubt its a clear cut answer in any direction. Players were different in Classic than they were in Cata, and there are changes in MoP raiders nowadays from Cata (whether you would argue them good or bad changes). The game was significantly different. Since these fights all had different standards, so its a hard comparison to make.

  4. #4
    What about M'uru?
    What about Lich King Heroic 25?
    What about Huhuran?

    Think those bosses were a lot harder at their own time/skill period then the bosses you named - save C'thun.

    So if I needed to choose I'd choose C'thun from your list.

  5. #5
    Probably C'thun, or maybe it just seems that way because he went unbeatable for longer than the other two.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by TheNightAngel View Post
    The closest anyone got was Nihilim, who flasked the entire raid (a new concept) (this one might be wrong, I didn't double check the info about the Nihilim kill), and got him within 1%.
    Flasking the entire raid wasn't unheard of, guilds on my server did it for lesser bosses (although there was a lot of general chat drama because of it, apparently flasking to kill Princess Huhuran means your kill wasn't legit).

  7. #7
    Dreadlord vmagik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    What about M'uru?
    What about Lich King Heroic 25?
    What about Huhuran?

    Think those bosses were a lot harder at their own time/skill period then the bosses you named - save C'thun.

    So if I needed to choose I'd choose C'thun from your list.
    C'Thun was harder than Huhuran, most of us ended up with a load of nature res gear from things like the world dragons, combined with NR pots made Huhuran relitively easy compared to C'Thun. You'd be surprised how many people simply failed at the eye beam, that mechanic's everywhere nowadays.
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  8. #8
    Warchief Byniri's Avatar
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    Wasn't C'thun 100% impossible to do pre-nerf? If so I think that's cheating in this poll.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by vmagik View Post
    C'Thun was harder than Huhuran, most of us ended up with a load of nature res gear from things like the world dragons, combined with NR pots made Huhuran relitively easy compared to C'Thun. You'd be surprised how many people simply failed at the eye beam, that mechanic's everywhere nowadays.
    I lol'd everytime that happend (also got pissed at people who were stupid enough to have it happen to more then 1x) - Zzzzzzzzzaaaaaapppppp you get hit by the eyebeam for 1.256.999 damage.

    Also Huhuran might not be as hard as C'thun but for me and my guild at the time, it was a hard encounter (with so many slackers who didn't get nature resist) - much harder then the other bosses the OP listed

  10. #10
    Of those ones? C'thun easily. I'd rate Twin Emps up there as well, Kael and Vashj deserve mentions as well. And 4 Horsemen (Naxx-40). 4 Horsemen and Twin Emps broke up so many guilds. Haha.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Velshin View Post
    Hey everyone, which one of these three do you think is the toughest, hardest, and almost unbeatable pre all hotfixes and nerfs?

    For me I will say C'thun from AQ40 he was almost impossible. Imperial Vizier hc was also very tough.
    C'thun's overtuning was developmental error, correcting it was not a "nerf". It wasn't "almost" impossible, it was impossible.

    So it doesn't count. Heroic Ragnaros, given the exposure of people to Firelands, the number of guilds raiding Firelands, including heroic, the numbers will have H Rag as the hardest pre-nerf.

  12. #12
    Yes C'thun was impossible, not being able to survive certain phases of him was an issue as well as the dps output needed that was just not obtainable.

    C'thun is definitley the answer.

    4 Horseman was hard as well, and M'uru as stated above is a good option.

  13. #13
    Brewmaster dacoolist's Avatar
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    C'Thun - he was released 100% impossible to kill unless you had GM/Hack powers.

    The start of the overtuned wars began..

  14. #14
    Why noone mentioned Yogg-Saron +0? Noone killed it while it was current, and first kills were with abuse of specific bug in brain room.

  15. #15
    C'thun was impossible.

    Vizier was completely RNG.

    True top 4 (in no particular order):
    H Lich King 25
    M'uru (when Negative Energy caused spell pushback...only SK killed version 1.0)
    Heroic Rag 25
    Yogg 0

    /thread
    Last edited by Toxigen; 2013-02-08 at 05:26 PM.

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  16. #16
    Didn't some guild kill C'thun by stacking a max number of debufs ?

  17. #17
    Should include LK25 hc because it took the 5% buff before paragon got him down and they were a couple of weeks quicker than the rest. Out of those 3 I'd choose c'thun though.

  18. #18
    C'thun was mathematically impossible. For pre-nerf bosses that were actually killable, I'd say H Rag and H LK. Some of the bosses in Naxx could get a mention too, but some of the reasons were dumb (like 4HM tanks).

    edit: how did I forget M'uru #### that
    Last edited by rebecca191; 2013-02-09 at 01:55 AM.

  19. #19
    C'thun.

    And Huhuran wasn't as bad as C'thun. Hell Emps were way harder than Huhuran

    Quote Originally Posted by Usurper View Post
    Didn't some guild kill C'thun by stacking a max number of debufs ?
    If you stacked debuff on C'thun you'd die.
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  20. #20
    I would have went with M'uru, but out of the given options it'd be C'thun for obvious reasons.
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