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  1. #1

    What mage spec do you prefer for Heroic Will 10M?

    My guild got past Spirit Kings (YAY - thanks to those of you that posted in my other thread, the info was very helpful).

    We started to work on Heroic Will last night. I was arcane and I just feel like the aoe is lacking. I don't have any logs, I believe our RL forgot to run them.

    I swapped to frost even with my arcane mastery reforges and it seems like I got better dps and added more aoe. However, my RL asked if I considered going fire for this. I told him no, I just don't feel fire is going to be better than the arc/frost on this. He suggested fire for Spirit Kings and I tried it for a night and while I know how to play fire, even with just under 30% crit, RNG was hating me. Fire aoe just doesn't feel great to me either.

    So, those of you that are working on Heroic Will or have killed Heroic Will - what spec do you prefer and why?

  2. #2
    Dreadlord nimryas's Avatar
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    Frost has a good AOE thing going on, fire is basicly just spreading your dots so I doubt thats gonna cut it. Arcane 6 stacks nether tempest + arcane explosion?

    I haven't done it, but I hope to stay arcane ^^

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  3. #3
    Pandaren Monk Mnevis's Avatar
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    http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Will_...14/60/samples/

    Arcane looks like the most common, and best-performing spec for it. Our Mage did it as Frost, for extra Rage control. I sort of kicked his ass on DPS on this one (Affliction), but the challenge is not really in DPS (at least it shouldn't be at this point), but in adapting your comp to the fight, and everyone understanding and doing their job.

    So probably depends somewhat on your comp, but Arcane or Frost. Do you have a DPS DK?

  4. #4
    Topping the dps meters is NOT your main goal, this fight is all about add control and once you've gotten past the 1st break it becomes a little more easier.
    As soon as you nail the first part it should be rinse and repeat til the end when you can choose a variety of ways to handle it, with CCing or just continuing dpsing it's up to you.
    Our mage was fire on this fight and did great so any spec should be viable, afterall it's based on the players skills most of the time.

  5. #5
    We used to have a DPS DK. I did look up raidbots last night after raid. I'm about 495/496 depending on which trinket I use. Super excellent chance I am also executing something incorrectly too. =)

    Our comp is actually pretty good

    Tanks - warrior/monk
    DPS - me, aff lock, spriest, hunter, ele shammy, feral druid (he respecced to guardian to try another strat to soak all the sparks)
    Healers - disc priest/restro druid

    We tried having me and the ele cc rages I believe after we got through the first waves of adds. They got broken at times so that wasn't always working either.

    I think...the big concern last night that kept being voiced was dps. But, we just started working on this, so I agree, the adjustment to the fight would be more important than pulling huge numbers. Before we even pulled, I mentioned I could go frost for extra add control, but was told we need the dps more.

  6. #6
    Pandaren Monk Mnevis's Avatar
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    That's pretty similar to my group, our comp for our recent first kill was

    Protadin x2
    Frost Mage, Aff Lock, Enh Shaman, WW Monk, SV Hunter, SPriest
    Disc/RDruid

    We'd tried CCing and AoEing the Rages but we had issues keeping them together enough that one person could blow up all the sparks (no dk aoe deathgrip), so we went with killing them as they spawned. Our Monk usually heals but she went DPS and handled the Strengths, because she could take all the sparks from them (except one of the initial doublesequence, which took a PS from the Priest). I was on the Courages 100-0, did take some help from the rest of the ranged once their Rage pair went down, I could do about 60% of it.

    Here's the log. I'm sure our Mage could do bigger numbers as another spec, and fairly sure we could do it without pet nova and deep freeze, but it was pretty helpful to have the extra roots, snares, and stuns from him.
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=10253&e=10930
    Last edited by Mnevis; 2013-02-08 at 06:31 PM.

  7. #7
    although we havent killed it them yet, i used arcane specc on this fight. combined with shaman cc, i used ring of frost on every 2nd pack of rages, and it turned out well. also i glyphed slow, so i can slow courages, just blink and pop few blasts and other will come to help with dps. we have some problems with soaking but other than that im happy with arcane specc on this fight.

  8. #8
    Arcane will be the best in terms of damage over the duration of the fight, and burst for the rages. It will be entirely dependant on the strategy you use as there is so many different ways to deal with the fight, and some mage specs are better than others at certain strats.

    As has been said though, go with what best suits your tactic and what you are most comfortable with, dps is a secondary concern on this fight.

    Your persistence of vision does not come without great sacrifice. Let go of the tangible mass of your mind, it is only an illusion. There is no escape.. For the soul burns on everlasting encapsulated within infinite time. A thousand year journey at the blink of an eye... Humanity is dust..

  9. #9
    Bloodsail Admiral Dutchmagoz's Avatar
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    As a mage, your job is boss damage and strength's damage. (and depending on your tactic, soaking/cc) The real numbers on this fight will come from your warlocks, priests, and boomkins.

  10. #10
    Pandaren Monk Mnevis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tahnaa View Post
    I think...the big concern last night that kept being voiced was dps. But, we just started working on this, so I agree, the adjustment to the fight would be more important than pulling huge numbers. Before we even pulled, I mentioned I could go frost for extra add control, but was told we need the dps more.
    Yes, it's definitely going to seem that way, but you guys probably have enough dps. It's just learning to get it applied to exactly the right enemy and without any delay. Things can get out of hand quickly if anyone falls down on the job and you have to run from sparks, or people think 'the bosses are out, time to dps them' rather than throwing some damage at the strength that's up and being ready to control and destroy the next rages.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchmagoz View Post
    As a mage, your job is boss damage and strength's damage. (and depending on your tactic, soaking/cc) The real numbers on this fight will come from your warlocks, priests, and boomkins.
    Precious little room for players filling the role of 'warm body' in 10.

    But anyways, OP, how's it going?
    Last edited by Mnevis; 2013-02-09 at 12:33 PM.

  11. #11
    I use arcane (haste stacked) spec for the fight. Its sick burst on the adds. We dont use cc at all, just make sure everyone keeps CDs for the rages before the courage. Burn them down in seconds. Its the only hard part in the fight once you got soaking rotation fixed. Only really our Spriest doing more damage than me on the fight. Our hunter and Spriest rotate soaking on the sets of rages with our pala healer helping at the start as you get double waves. Myself and lock rotate on the courage soaking and DK on strength, he soaks every one.

    Few things to note

    We started trying the cc /aoe tactic but found it alot harder for a number of reasons.
    while learning the fight tell you dot classes to focus 100% on the adds rather than trying to keep bosses dotted up. Theres loads of time to dps the boss during the breaks
    If strength still up going into a break just dot it up and let whoever tanking it kill it. rest get on the boss.
    Once you master the start of the fight, double wave of adds, a kill will come fast.
    I found cauterize best for soaking.
    If you guys stick with cc/aoe tactic go frost to help AoE or stay arcane and kill strength/ boss

    Hope this helps.

  12. #12
    Moderator Shangalar's Avatar
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    I'm playing Mastery Arcane and I'm usually dotting the bosses, dotting and nuking the strengths and when we have to focus the Rages I use a Barrage cleave if I have it ready and then just Blizzard. Contrary to my raid leader's instructions, I also always go to the Courages. I also use Incanter's Ward, I find it to be the easiest to handle on that fight, however I might also try Invocation when we continue our progress next time.

  13. #13
    Depends fully on your comp.. If you have a hunter, you can be your best dps spec, which on this boss would prolly be arcane. If your group is having problems killing rages before they reach the group and you constantly have to move from under sparks, go frost for control..

  14. #14
    [/COLOR]
    Quote Originally Posted by Shangalar View Post
    I'm playing Mastery Arcane and I'm usually dotting the bosses, dotting and nuking the strengths and when we have to focus the Rages I use a Barrage cleave if I have it ready and then just Blizzard. Contrary to my raid leader's instructions, I also always go to the Courages. I also use Incanter's Ward, I find it to be the easiest to handle on that fight, however I might also try Invocation when we continue our progress next time.
    Are you in 25m? Thought you said that you were in my other thread.

    Was the barrage cleave and Blizzard enough? (A lot more rages on 25m?)

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-09 at 07:45 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Mnevis View Post
    Yes, it's definitely going to seem that way, but you guys probably have enough dps. It's just learning to get it applied to exactly the right enemy and without any delay. Things can get out of hand quickly if anyone falls down on the job and you have to run from sparks, or people think 'the bosses are out, time to dps them' rather than throwing some damage at the strength that's up and being ready to control and destroy the next rages.



    Precious little room for players filling the role of 'warm body' in 10.

    But anyways, OP, how's it going?
    We are going back in on Tuesday. Our RL changed the spark soaking a bit, I am going to soak a bit more than just emergency now. Also, looks like we are back to cc'ing adds.
    Last edited by Tahnaa; 2013-02-09 at 03:43 PM.

  15. #15
    High Overlord Adeltor's Avatar
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    Our raid comp is ridiculous for that fight but we managed to kill it several weeks ago, maybe month. So it's like this:

    Tanks : 2x Warrior
    Healers: Rdruid, Discpriest
    DPS: 2x arcane mages, 1 ele shaman, 1 spriest, 1 frost dk, 1 assa rogue

    1.So basically, the DK is on the strength all the time, sometimes helping with loose rages.
    2.Me and the other mage -> we are CCing every 1 of the 2 Rages that spawns (polymorph) then we nuke the one that is not CCed (only me and the other mage with glyph of slow), so every wave of Rages we have only 1 active Rage at a time, so we nuke it down and CC the other one, then killing it. By the time the next wave spawned, the ones that were up are already just dead, so we don't have time to do anything else but Rages.
    3.Rogue is soloing all the sparks in the entire room and dpsing Strength/Rage when he has the time to do so.
    4. Spriest and Ele Shaman are always on Courage/Bosses so we can have some dmg on the bosses during adds.

    Basically that's all. We (mages) suck on dps on that fight, but we pretty much carry most of the hard part in this fight, so I don't really care about meters here. I play with full mastery build for more bursty damage and IW. With our raid comp we couldn't find anything better than this.

  16. #16
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
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    Frost, cuz fuck Arcane on Will.


    (I also don't bother swapping from Mastery to Haste because fuck it. Mastery isn't all that bad for Frost on freezable mobs )

    Retired Veteran Raider: [T14] 10/16H, [T15] 12/13H, [T16] 7/14H
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  17. #17
    Hey Tahnaa my group comp is very similar to yours, the druid soaking sparks works wonders but what really puts the icing on the cake for your heavily ranged group is having someone (in our case our monk healer re-specced dps) tank the strengths when they come out. The strengths "hit" for nothing, but their smash hits for tons, but you can sidestep it, if it gets in your group its very annoying and causes too much panic, but a melee can avoid it with ease, this allowed us to just burn the rages when they came out without having to worry about ccing them if a strength was up, glyphing slow however can help. If you do this strat also try to focus the rage if it goes on the strength tank, as it is hard to avoid both. In your case I don't know who can tank the strength other than maybe the hunter or the ele if he can possibly go enhancement and have hunter help misdirecting agro to him. With no ccing we had plently of time to kill adds before the next wave and got nice long burn phases on the boss! In other words our kill priority looked like this: courage>rage>strength>boss. Affliction lock (and you too if you can multitask it) should keep dots up on bosses at all times! Goodluck! Hope it helps!

  18. #18
    For me arcane is specc there... Depens what tactic u use , if u are cc'ing rages untill u have 4... than frost might be option.. but we are also progressing with killing asap so in that matter arcane wins.

  19. #19
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
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    If you want to be the highest DPS: arcane
    If you want to be useful and help ensure a smooth kill: frost
    If you want to risk horrible RNG but would like to potentially have the best cleave: fire

    Play what you're best at. Will heroic is a complex clusterfuck. I prefer frost for extra control, good cleave, and overall it's more fun. Also if I switch away from frost what hope does this community have? #neversurrenderfrostisbest

  20. #20
    Thanks guys!

    We are going back in tonight, should be interesting. Glad to see it's been mainly arc/frost used, will probably swapping if the add control is a turning into a problem. I can't stand fire in it's current state and I just really don't trust it right now either. (but the CLEAVE =( )

    Akraen, I need a drink now after looking at your frost mage flow chart LOL

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