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  1. #41
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goatfish View Post
    Except it isn't innovative at all.

    Pet Battles - Easily recognizable as a bad pokemon rip-off.
    Scenarios - Easily recognizable as a terrible easy dungeon.
    Brawlers Guild - While I approve of this to a degree, in game monster arenas have been in games for quite a while (FF7, Overlord, etc, etc).
    Treasure hunts - Treasure hunts are certainly new and innovative... Something never seen in history or games ever.
    Farms - A glorified bad rip-off of farmville and all other said farming simulators?
    Dynamic legendary progression - What a good way to spice this up... did Blizzard actually say this or are you just making it up yourself to make it sound better than it is?

    I didn't realize these were all in game prior to Mists of Pandaria
    I believe OP was talking about new, innovative things to gaming and the genre in general. You know... sort of like they pulled out in the initial release and following expansion, and not so much afterwards. If you can name one new, innovative thing they added in the past 2 expansions (MoP, Cata) you deserve a cookie. I'm talking actual gameplay wise, and not system mechanics, because be honest, there really isn't. The last thing worth even honorable mention is the implementation of heroic mode raids (WotLK), and that was really just the next step up from heroic dungeons already added in BC. Vehicles and phasing added in wrath might honestly be the only real one since BC, and those ones had very mixed results. (Phasing while more a system change had huge implications on gameplay as well, LFR, LFD, and CRZ are system changes with minimal changes to gameplay and quite a bit of negative feedback.)

    I pretty much agree with OP. While his presentation is a bit lackluster, pretending he doesn't have a point just because of such is ignorant. It's quite clear to anyone involved with WoW over the years that they have not only produced less and less innovative content, but they have slowly made things easier, clearer, and more open... which isn't completely a good thing.
    Being innovative doesn't mean it has to be new to the genre entirely. Those are features that were not found in World of Warcraft until now and they attract attention from players who enjoy that sort of thing.



  2. #42
    Bloodsail Admiral Goatfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterstrife View Post
    TBH there aren't many good MMOs that WoW can learn from. Hell even GW2 has its own flaws & lets not even touch on MMOs like DCU or SWToR.
    Just because something doesn't completely succeed doesn't mean there isn't a lesson to be learned from it. You can bake a cake perfectly but add Worcestershire sauce to it so that no one that eats it will stick around and eat more, but it doesn't mean that the sugar, flour, and other ingredients were bad too. Everyone eventually gets tired of eating the same food year after year, There really is no excuse for no real innovation from a company as big as Blizzard, when even small-time businesses and game developers are constantly creating new and interesting things... Like Tourrettes Quest for example.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Goatfish View Post
    I believe OP was talking about new, innovative things to gaming and the genre in general. You know... sort of like they pulled out in the initial release and following expansion, and not so much afterwards.
    What was innovative in launch condition WoW besides being much more casual friendly than all the other MMOs?

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by ElvenArcher View Post
    So what if it would allienate all these fossil players who live to reminiscence about the "good ole days"
    and tried to go back to an old school Warcraft feeling
    Does not compute.

    Other then that, what use is it to change the game in a way that 7 million players will not like? In what reality is changing something that the majority of your players hate a good thing? It makes no sense whatsoever.

    Also, you seem to want a completely different game from WoW. Go play a different game, instead of wanting to make WoW into that.
    Arguing with a troll is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what you do or say, he will just knock over the pieces, take a shit on the board and strut around like he won the whole damn thing.

  5. #45
    Pandaren Monk docterfreeze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    RAAAAAWR RAGE MOAR RAGE!!!

    You mean something new like:
    LFR, CRZ, Pet Battles, Scenario's?


    Last time I checked there were more than enough good villains and stories.
    But I like the hypocrisy in your post :')
    "Blizzard, do new stuff! It doesn't matter if people dislike it." and "Blizzard, your new stuff sucks! You should care about my opinion"
    Did you actually read your post before you posted it?
    Pet battles- pokemon (nothing new)
    LFR- easier access of raids (nothing new)
    CRZ- How did this change anything significantly? All it did was add players to a few zones so more 90s could grief lowbies...
    Scenarios- dungeons that take place outside (nothing new)

    Words to live by.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by docterfreeze View Post
    Pet battles- pokemon (nothing new)
    LFR- easier access of raids (nothing new)
    CRZ- How did this change anything significantly? All it did was add players to a few zones so more 90s could grief lowbies...
    Scenarios- dungeons that take place outside (nothing new)
    If adding something to an MMO that no one has ever done before, but has been done in another game, then nothing will ever be new. Anything you can come up with, has been done in one game or another. So, what do you expect exactly?
    Arguing with a troll is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what you do or say, he will just knock over the pieces, take a shit on the board and strut around like he won the whole damn thing.

  7. #47
    Pandaren Monk docterfreeze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by docterfreeze View Post
    Pet battles- pokemon (nothing new)
    LFR- easier access of raids (nothing new)
    CRZ- How did this change anything significantly? All it did was add players to a few zones so more 90s could grief lowbies...
    Scenarios- dungeons that take place outside (nothing new)
    But none of this is Blizzard's fault, blame Activisition for the terrible game design, they made Call of Duty, a game that has used the same engine for 4-5 years.

    Words to live by.

  8. #48
    Would it kill YOU to try new things? Clearly you're not satisfied with WoW.

  9. #49
    What was the context of the original post that mentioned 'treasure hunting' as innovative and never seen before? Are we talking about archaeology...? Plenty of games have had quests or features where you looked for items. If we're talking about just randomly finding stuff on the ground, that's practically any RPG where you find items from chests or herbs. If you're talking about actual locating and digging for treasure, the best example I can think of is Heroes of Might and Magic, where you had to find multiple obelisks to reveal a map, figure out which location matched the picture, run over and spend a turn digging for it.

  10. #50
    Pandaren Monk docterfreeze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lios View Post
    If adding something to an MMO that no one has ever done before, but has been done in another game, then nothing will ever be new. Anything you can come up with, has been done in one game or another. So, what do you expect exactly?
    Yes, most good ideas have been taken, that is no excuse for blatantly ripping off other games though... at least they should add their own twist...

    talking about pokemo.. I MEAN PET BATTLE!

    Words to live by.

  11. #51
    Banned Baar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElvenArcher View Post
    WHAT

    EVER.

    4 expansions and 90% of new content gets finished in a month, followed by 3-4 months of grinding static bosses which have no effect on the world itself and offer no sense of danger to the player.

    WHAT.

    EVER.

    People like you probably defended tape casettes because CDs and DVDs meant re-buying all your collection.


    WHAT.


    EVER!!
    How old are you again?

  12. #52
    Dynamic world events and naval combat would actually be really great additions, I think. Allowing players to complete/participate in small, medium, or large scale world events could reward reputation and/or gold on par with the amount of time they take. One place where Guild Wars got it wrong is that they use "dynamic" events in much the same way WoW uses quests--as a repetitive vehicle to drive the story with virtually no consequence for non-participation. Making dynamic world events actually feel...well, dynamic, would add a huge layer of depth to WoW. Imagine Deathwing actually attacking Stormwind during the game, not just the cinematics, and heroes having to go stop him or risk losing access to their primary city for a few hours or even days (which might be a good way to get people to use other cities too!). The next week, a boss from the Heart of Fear gets loose, rampaging through Dread Wastes and disrupting dailies and flight paths. It'd be a great change of pace, and would give us stakes that have some sorta real impact. Maybe even add dailies, class or faction-based follow up quests that unlock only by participating in such events. That feels like a more organic way to unlock dailies or quest chains than "hey we decided we like you more now, go run some new errands".

    As for naval combat, if there was ever an expansion to create naval vehicles that players could pilot, this is it ;-)

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by docterfreeze View Post
    Yes, most good ideas have been taken, that is no excuse for blatantly ripping off other games though... at least they should add their own twist...
    Do you fight birds and marmots off your farms in Farmville, too? Another reason why I'm glad I don't use FB. LOL

  14. #54
    I love how the OP wants "new things" yet says we should go back to ye olde school just wtf...

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer View Post
    I love how the OP wants "new things" yet says we should go back the ye olde school just wtf...
    Ever read mmorpg.com or any of the other general MMO boards? That's pretty much the prevailing attitude. "Current games are all rehased and lack innovation. They need to return to old mechanics that were in EQ/UO."

  16. #56
    Pandaren Monk docterfreeze's Avatar
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    Things I (and many others who know good design when they see it) would like to see-
    Alterac Valley restored to it's former glory
    The world being dynamic.. example: "Hogger has gathered an army of gnolls and is preparing an attack on Stormwind!" "The black dragonflight is on their way to Orgrimmar to seek revenge for the death of Deathwing!"

    Feel free to add your own ideas to the list
    Last edited by docterfreeze; 2013-02-08 at 07:14 PM.

    Words to live by.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Forumchibi View Post
    What was the context of the original post that mentioned 'treasure hunting' as innovative and never seen before? Are we talking about archaeology...? Plenty of games have had quests or features where you looked for items. If we're talking about just randomly finding stuff on the ground, that's practically any RPG where you find items from chests or herbs. If you're talking about actual locating and digging for treasure, the best example I can think of is Heroes of Might and Magic, where you had to find multiple obelisks to reveal a map, figure out which location matched the picture, run over and spend a turn digging for it.
    The context was that OP was complaining about how Blizzard never tried anything new.
    The point was that blizzard does try new things, like treasures to be found by exploring, something which wasn't previously in the game.
    The point wasn't that it's something that's never been done before in the game industry.

    Quote Originally Posted by docterfreeze View Post
    Things I (and many others who know good design when they see it) would like to see-
    Alterac Valley restored to it's former glory
    The world being dynamic.. example: "Hogger has gathered an army of gnolls and is preparing an attack on Stormwind!"

    Feel free to add your own ideas to the list
    Yeah bro, I know good design when I see it.
    Killing Hogger and his army of gnolls is going to be so much fun after the sixth or seventh time he gathers an army of gnolls and prepares an attack on Stormwind.
    Last edited by Hitei; 2013-02-08 at 07:13 PM.
    You tried too hard and now your post is shit. Never try too hard, the gamble isn't worth it. -Boubouille

  18. #58
    The Lightbringer TEHPALLYTANK's Avatar
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    So because you don't enjoy the new things you think that they cannot possibly be new? I wasn't aware being universally liked was a prerequisite for something being new.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbamboozal View Post
    Intelligence is like four wheel drive, it's not going to make you unstoppable, it just sort of tends to get you stuck in more remote places.
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    If you want to be disgusted, next time you kiss someone remember you've got your mouth on the end of a tube which has shit at the other end, held back by a couple of valves.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Goatfish View Post
    Just because something doesn't completely succeed doesn't mean there isn't a lesson to be learned from it. You can bake a cake perfectly but add Worcestershire sauce to it so that no one that eats it will stick around and eat more, but it doesn't mean that the sugar, flour, and other ingredients were bad too. Everyone eventually gets tired of eating the same food year after year, There really is no excuse for no real innovation from a company as big as Blizzard, when even small-time businesses and game developers are constantly creating new and interesting things... Like Tourrettes Quest for example.
    But true innovation will not generally happen in an existing product. The risk is too great, as not only to you have to design something that will be successful, but also successful enough that the existing customers (the ones pleased with the product they already have) whose business you lose because they are not happy with the changes you made are offset by the new bushiness gained. Yes, it can happen. But it is very rare. Partly because large publicly traded companies are highly adverse to such a level of risk, because shareholders like stability almost as much as growth. Small companies, which are more likely to be privately held, have more freedom in that regard which is why you are more likely to see truly innovative designs coming from that sector.

    What is less risky is developing a new product in which to incorporate your innovative design ideas. I feel Titan will fill this role for Blizzard, becoming their test bed for whatever they feel the next evolution of MMO gaming will be.
    All this complaining is simply further proof that Blizzard could send each and every player a real-life wish-granting flying unicorn carrying a solid gold plate of chocolate chip cookies wrapped in hundred dollar bills, and someone would whine that Blizzard sucks for not letting them choose oatmeal raisin.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    If your guild demands you slip into an elephants butt and force yourself out in a regurgation then you can't blame Blizzard for supplying the elephant.

  20. #60
    Pandaren Monk docterfreeze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soratrox View Post
    The context was that OP was complaining about how Blizzard never tried anything new.
    The point was that blizzard does try new things, like treasures to be found by exploring, something which wasn't previously in the game.
    The point wasn't that it's something that's never been done before in the game industry.



    Yeah bro, I know good design when I see it.
    Killing Hogger and his army of gnolls is going to be so much fun after the sixth or seventh time he gathers an army of gnolls and prepares an attack on Stormwind.
    Would more than 100 events (each different, and only happen once a year) be better?

    Words to live by.

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