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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Adramalech View Post

    Your fun shouldn't come at the expense of other people's fun.
    Yeah you're right, lets just sit in our cities and que for more of the same erryday.

    ...fun.
    Last edited by Redmage; 2013-02-10 at 12:39 AM.

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  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Adramalech View Post
    Fair enough. Do keep in mind though, that some things cannot be accessed in other towns. "Move" isn't always the solution, especially for low level players who can't fly or teleport freely.
    That is true, but I would add to that that for me personally one of my single most enduring memories on WoW was when I made my first ever toon in Elwynn and wandered over to SW, to find a screen of massive lag and utter chaos. I attacked the guy with red over his head and was promptly killed, did a corpse run to return to what I thought was the most amazing thing ever. And just like that I was hooked on WoW.

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  3. #163
    Hrmm here I was thinking vanilla and TBC had world PvE encounters and wrath/cata was when they were removed.


    Edit : Wiping out the city is all good, but sitting for hours in the one isnt fun or amusing for anyone. If they kept moving through all the cities sure (SW-> IF -> Darn -> Exo ) and came back and redid them would be all good as people could do their business in the few minutes of respawns.

    If you want to take and hold a target pick a less mandatory town (Valiance keep in Borean tundra etc).
    Last edited by Dazu; 2013-02-10 at 12:47 AM.

  4. #164
    Elemental Lord Haven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Why when someone says 'innovative additions to Wow' people immediately assume 'innovative' means 'ZOMG TOTALLY NEW THINGS NEVER SEEN BEFORE IN THE FACE OF THE EARTH, IN PAST, PRESENT OR FUTURE, OMG THIS GUY IS TOTALLY AWESOME FOR CREATING SOMETHING THAT WASN'T EVER IMAGINED BEFORE, EVER!'?
    Of course, everything was once invented already. Or was it? I doubt anyone had the idea of implemeting radio back in 17th century. WoW actually invented things like LFD, which were entirely awesome. However, other games got some things better than WoW, which I pointed out in the last paragraph of my post, which you missed.
    Pet Battles ARE innovative. Why? WoW didn't had it before.
    WoW didn't gave grind? Or minigames? In that case, that "plants vs. zombies" quest in Hillsbrad should've been listed as a major innovation in WoW.
    Scenarios are inovative. Why? WoW didn't have 'dungeons' that didn't need the 'holy trinity' of groups.
    It had, and they were called "group quests". Back when those things still mattered. Also, there are entire games that shifted out of "holy trinity".
    CRZ are innovative. Why? WoW didn't have cross-server open areas before.
    But what did it change? Nothing.
    People need to STOP being so 'high-and-mighty', remove the proverbial stick out of their behinds, stop freaking out in 'holier-than-thou' rage when someone says 'innovative', and get THIS little thing through their heads: absolutely NO innovations (in WoW or anywhere else) will be 100% original. It will always be based in varying degrees on someone else's ideas. Get over it.
    The point is that it's Blizzard acting "high-and-mighty", because they refuse to learn from other games, keeping WoW with the same core problems it had in 2004. The problems have escalated since then, but the solutions have been ignored.
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  5. #165
    Pit Lord Adramalech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redmage View Post
    Yeah your right, lets just sit in our cities and que for more of the same erryday.

    ...fun.
    And who's telling you do that? You don't have to sit on your cities doing nothing.

    You see, that's this kind of shit that makes me not take you seriously at all. Your claims basically come down to "if I can't do what *I* want and how *I* like, then there's nothing else to do!". You can do whatever you want while sitting on whatever queue you wanna sit. Why is your only choice disrupting other people's play? Do you really have nothing else to do that if you're not slaughtering an entire capital, the only alternative is sitting in your capital in a queue? Can you not see the huge hyperbole in replying with "let's just sit in our capitals in some queue"?

    Whatever suits your argument, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tya View Post
    As a warlock, allow me to be the first to say that I get tremendous amounts of joy from watching fear pathing take you to Africa.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drayarr View Post
    Twinking is like going back to school when you are 30, just to be smarter than the other kids.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Dazu View Post
    Hrmm here I was thinking vanilla and TBC had world PvE encounters and wrath/cata was when they were removed.
    The opening of AQ was the most epic thing I have ever done in any video game ever.

    A trail of skeletons and corpses that led from the portal to Cenarion hold, down through the Crater, all the way to Gadgetzan.

    It was... glorious.

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  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Adramalech View Post
    And who's telling you do that? You don't have to sit on your cities doing nothing.

    You see, that's this kind of shit that makes me not take you seriously at all. Your claims basically come down to "if I can't do what *I* want and how *I* like, then there's nothing else to do!". You can do whatever you want while sitting on whatever queue you wanna sit. Why is your only choice disrupting other people's play? Do you really have nothing else to do that if you're not slaughtering an entire capital, the only alternative is sitting in your capital in a queue? Can you not see the huge hyperbole in replying with "let's just sit in our capitals in some queue"?

    Whatever suits your argument, right?
    I think you answered your own question. What is there to do? The game has become so simplified and bland, that the other activities (pet battles, dailies, mind numbing LFR or LFD runs) are just so utterly uncompelling that that thought of something much more real and intense like taking over a city is that much more appealing.

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  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Adramalech View Post
    And who's telling you do that? You don't have to sit on your cities doing nothing.

    You see, that's this kind of shit that makes me not take you seriously at all. Your claims basically come down to "if I can't do what *I* want and how *I* like, then there's nothing else to do!". You can do whatever you want while sitting on whatever queue you wanna sit. Why is your only choice disrupting other people's play? Do you really have nothing else to do that if you're not slaughtering an entire capital, the only alternative is sitting in your capital in a queue? Can you not see the huge hyperbole in replying with "let's just sit in our capitals in some queue"?

    Whatever suits your argument, right?
    Back around the end of cata we had a massive raid on Org with the allies trying to take down hellscream, the raid was so massive the lag was horrendous, all of Orgrimmar was inoperable for most of a day either due to the fighting or the lag, eventually it got so bad the server crashed (or was taken down, not sure which).

    I didn't get anything I had planned done that day, but it was the most fun I had in wow since some of the epic world pvp battles of vanilla.

    And even if I DID want out of it, i coulda just ran and hid in another city and qued for my dungeons in peace, but why would I pass up something that awesome?

    Yeah, wouldn't want it all the time. But punish this behavior? why? its fun. Bold reminder that this game even HAS factions.

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  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Redmage View Post
    People on PvP servers should of known the risk, lowbee or not.

    No legitimate non-exploitative player vs player action on any scale should ever be punished on a PvP server, ever.
    Earthen Ring is a PvE server. Just and FYI
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  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by zeekphreak View Post
    Earthen Ring is a PvE server. Just and FYI
    I SUPPOSE taking action would be okay then. People role on PvE servers to avoid that kind of thing and forcing it on them is kinda rude.

    PvP servers however, fair game, you made your choice deal with the consequences. And yes even if that means days of continuous "disruption" of game play (which it isn't since pvp is a part of the game).
    Last edited by Redmage; 2013-02-10 at 12:55 AM.

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  11. #171
    Pit Lord Adramalech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by muchtoohigh View Post
    I think you answered your own question. What is there to do? The game has become so simplified and bland, that the other activities (pet battles, dailies, mind numbing LFR or LFD runs) are just so utterly uncompelling that that thought of something much more real and intense like taking over a city is that much more appealing.
    And again, I call that hyperbole. I can turn that argument around: I find taking over a city and sitting there mind-numbingly killing things boring.

    The problem with arguing with you is that you exaggerate things to hell and back again. You ask what is there to do. Like you told me, you answered your own question. There's plenty of activities to do if you look at them. The fact that you consider them boring doesn't mean they're not an option, not that your opinion is shared by everyone around you.

    It all comes down to preferences. The difference is that taking over a city disrupts the gameplay for several dozens of players, depending on realm size. The other activities do not.

    Don't take me wrong here. I don't have anything at all against city raids. They're fun, and I'm sure Blizzard agrees, or they wouldn't have put the Pandaria capitals nearly sitting on each other exactly with the intent of facilitating large wars between towns (not that I've seen any yet, or heard of one). Taking over a city is as fun as sitting on your own, with the difference that mobs and players will respawn and die constantly. You're unlikely to have both factions balanced enough to make it fun. But even if you do, you'll be making it unfun for many others who will be forced to eat your raid or logout until you decide to move.
    Last edited by Adramalech; 2013-02-10 at 12:57 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tya View Post
    As a warlock, allow me to be the first to say that I get tremendous amounts of joy from watching fear pathing take you to Africa.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drayarr View Post
    Twinking is like going back to school when you are 30, just to be smarter than the other kids.

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Redmage View Post
    I SUPPOSE taking action would be okay then. People role on PvE servers to avoid that kind of thing and forcing it on them is kinda rude.

    PvP servers however, fair game, you made your choice deal with the consequences.
    I can agree with that. I'm one of the first people who get a kick out of the threads people post comaining about getting pvp'd on a PvP server.
    Vote with your wallet if you don't like something. Otherwise just keep your mouth shut.

  13. #173
    Banned anaxie's Avatar
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    Muchtoohigh.... why don't you clear a heroic raid? start a competitive RBG team? Group up a 40 man raid on cities. Or is bitching about on the forums the content you prefer? Maybe they can have billboards to write on in cities I'm sure that would be your thing.

    Also if the game is simplified armory link so I can see the only thing simplified isn't LFR and random unrated bg ques.

  14. #174
    The Lightbringer Belize's Avatar
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    Back in my days, people who complained actually had substance to their posts.
    Yes, I AM a fossil.

  15. #175
    Wait, let me get this straight. So, ElvenArcher's problem was that Warcraft moved away from core values and focused on daily quests and instanced grouping instead of Warcraft core values.

    And now that some players are achieving those core values on a server, you're saying that ElvenArcher was wrong in the first place because World of Warcraft should not play like Warcraft, even though it's called, World of Warcraft?

    What does not being and RTS have to do with it? You're saying that if someone makes World of Starcraft I can't organize a 300 people Zerg rush on a Terran emplacement because that's inconvenient to you? Do you have any idea what you're saying?

    If someone makes World of Counter Strike I can't camp with AWPs?

    Oh I'M SORRY, sounds like the game isn't for YOU, not those people being appalled by these contradictions, and it's the developer's job to adjust things, not the player's role to suck it up.

    I wonder what Warcraft fans which came directly from the RTSs would've of answered to your reaction 7 years ago. You know what would've happened? You would have been blasted into oblivion and inexistence by people who would have laughed at your hypocritic ideology.

    Too bad all those players were allienated years ago, and all we're left with is people like you. No wonder they were allienated.

  16. #176
    Elemental Lord Haven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarokvr1 View Post
    Wait, let me get this straight. So, ElvenArcher's problem was that Warcraft moved away from core values and focused on daily quests and instanced grouping instead of Warcraft core values.

    And now that some players are achieving those core values on a server, you're saying that ElvenArcher was wrong in the first place because World of Warcraft should not play like Warcraft, even though it's called, World of Warcraft?

    What does not being and RTS have to do with it? You're saying that if someone makes World of Starcraft I can't organize a 300 people Zerg rush on a Terran emplacement because that's inconvenient to you? Do you have any idea what you're saying?

    If someone makes World of Counter Strike I can't camp with AWPs?

    Oh I'M SORRY, sounds like the game isn't for YOU, not those people being appalled by these contradictions, and it's the developer's job to adjust things, not the player's role to suck it up.

    I wonder what Warcraft fans which came directly from the RTSs would've of answered to your reaction 7 years ago. You know what would've happened? You would have been blasted into oblivion and inexistence by people who would have laughed at your hypocritic ideology.

    Too bad all those players were allienated years ago, and all we're left with is people like you. No wonder they were allienated.
    It has a lot to do with player psychology. People want to stay in their safe comfortable boxes where no one would touch them, and only be heroic when it's safe. Easy victories are satisfying, and challenge is rarely fun.
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  17. #177
    Pit Lord Adramalech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarokvr1 View Post
    I wonder what Warcraft fans which came directly from the RTSs would've of answered to your reaction 7 years ago. You know what would've happened? You would have been blasted into oblivion and inexistence by people who would have laughed at your hypocritic ideology.

    Too bad all those players were allienated years ago, and all we're left with is people like you. No wonder they were allienated.
    I joined WoW precisely because of the RTS games I played before it was released. And I can tell the difference between a RTS an a MMO. Game mechanics come first. And game mechanics dictate that some things aren't acceptable, despite them being "just another day" back in Warcraft I, II and III. I can't just gather up a bunch of Wisps, build a few Ancients Protectors and move their asses to the enemy's capital shooting their guards, nor can I gather up a bunch of siege weapons to quickly demolish their town to rubble. On the other side of the coin, in Warcraft RTS games you are expected to go and destroy anything the enemy owns, because that's the point of the game, and you can't do a bunch of other things that WoW allows.

    The games are completely different in what you're allowed to do, are expected to do, and should do. You're comparing apples to oranges. They're both fruits (same IP, same lore, etc), but that's where the similarities end (game mechanics/objectives, among others).

    Quote Originally Posted by Haven View Post
    It has a lot to do with player psychology. People want to stay in their safe comfortable boxes where no one would touch them, and only be heroic when it's safe. Easy victories are satisfying, and challenge is rarely fun.
    Couldn't be farther from the truth. At least, for me. It has more to do with common sense.


    Regardless, we're all free to think whatever we want. I'm done for the night.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tya View Post
    As a warlock, allow me to be the first to say that I get tremendous amounts of joy from watching fear pathing take you to Africa.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drayarr View Post
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  18. #178
    Brewmaster Duravian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    RAAAAAWR RAGE MOAR RAGE!!!

    You mean something new like:
    LFR, CRZ, Pet Battles, Scenario's?
    Eh... in his defense.. those are pretty stale features. I like pet battles, unoriginal, yet innovative for WoW. Scenarios are useless 3 man tank n spank dungeons, LFR is raiding with less thought, and CRZ is... nothing I guess? Unfortunately OP is suggesting a complete game overhaul which is as likely as aliens landing on Earth tomorrow.
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  19. #179
    The Insane Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    I'm all for dynamic events like what ElvenArcher (TGHB) mentioned.

    But make it phased so only people of a certain level can see it. Or just make it in special zones like Vale that you have to be at the cap to get to.
    Unsubscribed as of 03/10/2014.

    If you dislike where WoW is headed in your mind, quit. Really. Sitting around complaining about "promises" that may or may not have been made isn't doing anything to help your cause. It's just making you look more and more like the constantly complaining and perpetually offended.

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Adramalech View Post
    And again, I call that hyperbole. I can turn that argument around: I find taking over a city and sitting there mind-numbingly killing things boring.

    The problem with arguing with you is that you exaggerate things to hell and back again. You ask what is there to do. Like you told me, you answered your own question. There's plenty of activities to do if you look at them. The fact that you consider them boring doesn't mean they're not an option, not that your opinion is shared by everyone around you.

    It all comes down to preferences. The difference is that taking over a city disrupts the gameplay for several dozens of players, depending on realm size. The other activities do not.

    Don't take me wrong here. I don't have anything at all against city raids. They're fun, and I'm sure Blizzard agrees, or they wouldn't have put the Pandaria capitals nearly sitting on each other exactly with the intent of facilitating large wars between towns (not that I've seen any yet, or heard of one). Taking over a city is as fun as sitting on your own, with the difference that mobs and players will respawn and die constantly. You're unlikely to have both factions balanced enough to make it fun. But even if you do, you'll be making it unfun for many others who will be forced to eat your raid or logout until you decide to move.
    Of course everything is subjective. I think dailies and pet battles are boring, if you enjoy them thats fine. But to say city takeovers should not be allowed because it disrupts the gameplay of others is silly, for the simple reason that those players can very easily go to other cities to do any business they want.

    *~To change one's life: Start immediately. Do it flamboyantly.~*

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