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  1. #121
    High Overlord Riordrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElvenArcher View Post
    jesus christ how can you tell me pandaren are a change in wow's gameplay, they're just a new race with a new continent filled with more daily quests. They're no different from draenei or blood elves or goblins or worgen. New content? Yes. New innovation? No. How is pet battles innovation? How does that promote Warcraft gameplay elements and improve on them? When did Lothar, Illidan, Alleria or Thrall ever used pet battles in any Warcraft games? Since when do people think Warcraft and think "hmm, this game definitely needs pokemon in it"? REALLY?

    Scenarios? You mean 3 man dungeons? Isn't that the 10 man counterpart to the 25 man raids? If scenarios were 5 man dungeons with a few extra pack pulls they would be exactly the same thing.

    I gave that idea with bosses attacking cities as a goddamn EXAMPLE, and you tear at it showing that you don't even have imagination for better things. That could be like a random world event, the rest could consist of horde/alliance incursions in your home towns of NPCs attacking your quests hubs that you'd actually have to fight for to defend. It would make people have a reason to go outside their major cities and DO things together besides killing the same raid bosses over and over and over.

    You would get rewarded for it, you would promote world PVP, you would promote fighting. WARCRAFT.

    You could have Vrykul taking over boats from Northrend and invading Stormwind through the harbor, baricading themselves in one of the city's quarters.

    You could have dark irons renegade invading Ironforge.

    You could have Westfall's farms getting burned and losing 5% HP bonus or something while fighting in Eastern Kingdoms.

    You could have Trolls attacking Silvermoon from Zul'Aman and potentially take over the city.

    I DIDN'T EVEN FINISH ALL THE DAILIES REP TO REVERED YET I TOOK ALL MY TIME BUT THERE IS NOTHING EXCITING ABOUT GATHERING SHIT AND KILLING 10 MOBS AFTER YOU'VE DONE IT 10 TIMES. I DON'T FEEL THREATENED, I DON'T FEEL A CAUSE, I DON'T CARE ABOUT GROUPING WITH OTHER PLAYERS FOR IT.

    NOTHING IS OF CONSEQUENCE I JUST GO TO STORMWIND AND I'M SAFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    WORLD OF PEACECRAFT EVERYBODY!!!!

    How has Warcraft devolved into this sedentary lifestyle farming game. Literally. We now have farming in it too, to add insult to injury.
    well an what about the 10th or 20th or 30th time some npcs are invanding your city/questhub/etc ? will it be threatening or exiting or even be noticed ? no it won´t or would be fought off with the same lethargy that i do my daylies. in the end its just annoying and keeps you from doing the stuff you want

  2. #122
    Pandaren Monk
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    They are trying new things. Sounds like you want a completely different game, perhaps it's time for YOU to move on, not time for the game to completely change.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Haven View Post
    Pet battles, innovative? Let's be honest here, it's a blatant, obvious way to kill time and occupy your OCD, and nothing more.

    Cross-realm zones? It's a good one from a technical POV, but does little to nothing to the gameplay itself. Yeah, now there are other players around, tagging my quest mobs, stealing my nodes, and camping my rare mobs. Yay. In essence, it brought more frustration than use, because there's still no reason to group and do stuff together, the other players are there just to give you an illusion of MMO.

    Scenarios? An amalgamation of a dungeon and a quest, it feels nice, but I personally had the feeling it had to be there since 2008.

    Other MMOs, even though they didn't make it, had really good ideas, which WoW ignored. The point is, WoW has become anti-social. You're locked in a bubble. You don't have to group with other players while leveling - you can basically play 1-90 as a singleplayer game. The world is static. Mobs wander around spawn points, waiting to be slaughtered. They never attack towns, they don't form roaming bands, they don't clash with each other for territorial control. Never does an NPC hunt you. WoW could take some lessons from Guild Wars 2 in grouping, shared effort, and dynamic world. Even though changes are cyclic in GW2, it is still a big step forward. Rift gave us invasions, a way for the world to invade your personal space, a way for the world to live. WoW is still almost the same game it was in 2006 in the core.
    Why when someone says 'innovative additions to Wow' people immediately assume 'innovative' means 'ZOMG TOTALLY NEW THINGS NEVER SEEN BEFORE IN THE FACE OF THE EARTH, IN PAST, PRESENT OR FUTURE, OMG THIS GUY IS TOTALLY AWESOME FOR CREATING SOMETHING THAT WASN'T EVER IMAGINED BEFORE, EVER!'?

    Pet Battles ARE innovative. Why? WoW didn't had it before. Scenarios are inovative. Why? WoW didn't have 'dungeons' that didn't need the 'holy trinity' of groups. CRZ are innovative. Why? WoW didn't have cross-server open areas before.

    People need to STOP being so 'high-and-mighty', remove the proverbial stick out of their behinds, stop freaking out in 'holier-than-thou' rage when someone says 'innovative', and get THIS little thing through their heads: absolutely NO innovations (in WoW or anywhere else) will be 100% original. It will always be based in varying degrees on someone else's ideas. Get over it.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElvenArcher View Post
    You goddamn fossils you're the reason why the game is so bad! You lick blizzard's ass in everything and you have no imagination about how great this game could be.

    PET BATTLES? CROSS REALM ZONES? SCENARIOS?

    WHAT THE FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCKKKKK IS THIS SUPPOSED TO INNOVATE OR HELP TO PUSH THIS MMO FORWARD???

    Infracted. Keep your posts civil when arguing
    I figured this thread was a troll's trap, now I know.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by ElvenArcher View Post
    I can't believe what I've read through 5 pages of bullshit. People actually saying that they would rather kill the same bosses with the same strategies and exactly the same pack pulls 50 times in a raid, over and over and over, than have bosses attack the places where you feel SAFE and make you band together in real time to actually defend something from a threat. No wonder WoW's gone to shit if blizzard listened to people like you on the forums. You're like those old folks who scream out how much they don't like change in the world, it's so pathetic.

    You people must be heart of the party when you go to one.
    So... instead of, opening quote, "kill the same bosses with the same strategies and exactly the same pack pulls 50 times in a raid", close quote, (I think I see your problem. Your raid group is terrible. Or maybe it's just you. In any case...) after doing the 'same thing' many times, it's usually enough for the group to learn the strategy and kill the boss with no problem. Anyways. So, instead of that, what you propose is that we, open quote, "kill the same bosses with the same strategies and exactly the same pack pulls 50 times in a raid", close quote, only in open world instead of in a raid, where it would be the same thing as doing it in a raid instance, only in the open world, with the huge complications it'd imply, causing the encounters being nothing much a headache to the population of the server, since it'd never be the same group against said monster, there would be almost NO time to prepare, and, let's not forger this, NO communication at all between the groups. Again, it would be nothing but a headache once you weight the cons and pros. There's, like two or thre cons for each pro I can think of. Cease and Desist of your trolling. You're just bad troll.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-09 at 08:54 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by ElvenArcher View Post
    I gave that idea with bosses attacking cities as a goddamn EXAMPLE, and you tear at it showing that you don't even have imagination for better things.
    And we just proved that it's a horrible example to begin with. YOU gave no thought about it, and just tossed that in to make yourself look cool.

    Quote Originally Posted by ElvenArcher View Post
    That could be like a random world event, the rest could consist of horde/alliance incursions in your home towns of NPCs attacking your quests hubs that you'd actually have to fight for to defend. It would make people have a reason to go outside their major cities and DO things together besides killing the same raid bosses over and over and over.
    So, instead of going into a dungeon or raid instance to kill the same mobs and bosses again and again, we'd go to our cities to kill the same mobs and bosses again and again? Not much difference, is there? Not to mention this: in that idea of yours, lowbies would be in trouble against said mobs, and 90's would have a boring time 'protecting' the NPCs. NPCs they have no reason to defend since they've done the quest. That's assuming the 'mobs' would have the same average level the zone's mobs have. Now, if they were all 90's, while that would give 90's some challenge, lowbies would be trounced hard and griefed by those mobs, killed over and over, and be unable to turn in or collect quests because their NPCs would be dead or in combat.

    Quote Originally Posted by ElvenArcher View Post
    You would get rewarded for it, you would promote world PVP, you would promote fighting. WARCRAFT.
    No, you wouldn't. You'd just promote griefing and ganking, as 90's of the opposing factions would just do the same thing they've been doing since the beginning of WoW: killing low-level quest NPCs and gank lowbies.

    Quote Originally Posted by ElvenArcher View Post
    You could have Vrykul taking over boats from Northrend and invading Stormwind through the harbor, baricading themselves in one of the city's quarters.
    The Vrykul were basically pacified by the time Wrath was over, since we culled so many of their numbers. Not to mention they wouldn't get close to SW's harbor with all the cannons and warship the Alliance and Horde have.

    Quote Originally Posted by ElvenArcher View Post
    You could have dark irons renegade invading Ironforge.
    See my answer above about your 'open world events'. Same things apply.

    Quote Originally Posted by ElvenArcher View Post
    You could have Westfall's farms getting burned and losing 5% HP bonus or something while fighting in Eastern Kingdoms.
    What does have Westfall farms being burned with getting a -5% HP debuff? So you want me to stop leveling my level 40-something alt to log in to my main to go to Westfall, waste time protecting farms, just so I could keep something that I was supposed to have all the time? Not much fun, is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by ElvenArcher View Post
    You could have Trolls attacking Silvermoon from Zul'Aman and potentially take over the city.
    See my answer above about your 'open world events'. Same things apply.

    Quote Originally Posted by ElvenArcher View Post
    I DIDN'T EVEN FINISH ALL THE DAILIES REP TO REVERED YET I TOOK ALL MY TIME BUT THERE IS NOTHING EXCITING ABOUT GATHERING SHIT AND KILLING 10 MOBS AFTER YOU'VE DONE IT 10 TIMES. I DON'T FEEL THREATENED, I DON'T FEEL A CAUSE, I DON'T CARE ABOUT GROUPING WITH OTHER PLAYERS FOR IT.
    Well, that's too bad. Why don't you go do dungeons, then? That way you'll need a group to stay safe. Now, if you want to feel 'threatened' ALL THE TIME, I suggest you close WoW and go play a different game, like Call of Duty, Battlefield, etc... I guarantee you'll feel 'threatened' all the time, there.

    Quote Originally Posted by ElvenArcher View Post
    NOTHING IS OF CONSEQUENCE I JUST GO TO STORMWIND AND I'M SAFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Well, that's the whole definition of 'safe haven', isn't it? If you're not 'ok' with that, just don't go to Stormwind? Stay logged in contested zones, then.

    Quote Originally Posted by ElvenArcher View Post
    WORLD OF PEACECRAFT EVERYBODY!!!!

    How has Warcraft devolved into this sedentary lifestyle farming game. Literally. We now have farming in it too, to add insult to injury.
    Now, I don't want to laugh at you, because it would be demeaning to you, but WoW has *always* been about the farming: farming mats to make flasks and potions, farming mats to make better weapons and armor, farming rare items to sell in AH to get more gold... That has been in the game ever since DAY FREAKING ONE. If it's not one thing, you'll farm for another. The 'farm' you so demean, just allows us to grow crafting mats or food without having us to go all around the world harvesting mats. In fact, farming allows us to NOT farm so much. Surely you can see that? (Then again, after reading what I read, I doubt it.)

  6. #126
    So the OP is banned and he was the main focus point in discussion, meaning he brought in the discussion. I really don't see what else there is to talk about.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Riordrian View Post
    well an what about the 10th or 20th or 30th time some npcs are invanding your city/questhub/etc ? will it be threatening or exiting or even be noticed ? no it won´t or would be fought off with the same lethargy that i do my daylies. in the end its just annoying and keeps you from doing the stuff you want
    like we actually want to do dailies, hah. good one
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  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Thetruth1400 View Post
    This.

    What you're saying is, you want Blizzard to tailor the game to the way you want it to be and risk alienating 8 million customers. You do realize that is $120 million a month they'd lose to fit your style right?

    Frankly, until Blizzard does lose those 8 million players, you won't see changes. No reason to change a system that puts money in their pockets monthly on an amazing scale.
    While your argument is solid, no business in the world would alienate 8m customers, almost half of WoWs customers do not pay $15 a month. The Asian markets account for 10% of revenues but have about half the customers.

  9. #129
    Bloodsail Admiral Goatfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    I think you fail to see where you are both using the same definition.

    The additions that people have mentioned have all been completely new to WoW. That's called innovation, even going by your own post.
    Except it's not the same at all. If I were to add Toast to my menu at my restaurant it is nothing innovative at all going by the second definition because Toast, and adding it to menus are not new ideas in the slightest. It is however innovative by the first definition taken in an extremely narrow view because it is new to the menu if nothing else, and the definition does just say 'Introduction of something new' and not where, how, why, when it is introduced or to be viewed.

    See? In my mind introducing toast is nothing innovative, I can get that down the street, at my own home, most anywhere. Toast is nothing new and exciting because it's already been around. Now if I were to make garlic and beef fat infused focaccia and pan sear the sides to make toast... that might be something fairly innovative, because no one in the nearest 400 miles of me makes anything like that, so to my audience/customers, it is something new and innovative. Adding farmville and pokemon to your game, when your audience is gamers who have most likely played, heard about, or already made judgements about is nothing innovative. They need to bring something new and surprising (aka: Innovative) if they want to stop leaking subs. Pretending nothing new can be innovated though is ridiculous, just look at Rift Events, Secret World investigative and covert quests, TERA's combat system, Guild Wars balancing system, etc, etc. Each of these new games that are coming out are adding at least one thing new and innovative as a selling point. WoW is going with a different strategy of copying successful things from other companies and selling it as their own. It's underhanded, cheap, lazy, and apparently fairly profitable.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by ElvenArcher View Post
    WHAT

    EVER.

    4 expansions and 90% of new content gets finished in a month, followed by 3-4 months of grinding static bosses which have no effect on the world itself and offer no sense of danger to the player.

    WHAT.

    EVER.

    People like you probably defended tape casettes because CDs and DVDs meant re-buying all your collection.


    WHAT.


    EVER!!
    The only people clearing that content in a month on regular basis are progression guilds and hardcore guilds. They also test the raids on the PTR for months so when it goes live they have had 1-2 months of experience in it. Most guilds get raids on farm before the next raid comes out. If they are lucky enough or good enough they clear heroics/HMs before the next raid comes out.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by docterfreeze View Post
    But none of this is Blizzard's fault, blame Activisition for the terrible game design, they made Call of Duty, a game that has used the same engine for 4-5 years.
    It's funny. Games like CoD and WoW get so much hate and rage and talk about how terrible they are. By the people that keep playing them. I watch a guy's youtube channel that shows him playing Black Ops 2 daily. And in every video he rages. "THIS GAME FUCKING SUCKS! FIX UR FUCKING GAME!" over and over, every video. But he's still playing the shit out of it. Reminds me alot of wow players.

    Typical WoW player on the forums-"FIX UR FUCKING GAME BLIZZARD!!! THIS GAME IS SHIT!"
    Same WoW player on the forums bitching about how bad the game sucks-"WTF BLIZZ! FIX UR FUCKIN SERVERS! I'VE BEEN TRYING TO LOG ON THE PAST 6 HOURS!"
    Perfect example of why "community" forums are poisonous to the health of a development team. These developers are wasting hundreds of hours trying to stem the tide of incessant bitchery that would never, ever abate so long as these entitled, unfortunate human beings don't get their way.

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Goatfish View Post
    Except it isn't innovative at all.



    I believe OP was talking about new, innovative things to gaming and the genre in general. You know... sort of like they pulled out in the initial release and following expansion, and not so much afterwards. If you can name one new, innovative thing they added in the past 2 expansions (MoP, Cata) you deserve a cookie. I'm talking actual gameplay wise, and not system mechanics, because be honest, there really isn't. The last thing worth even honorable mention is the implementation of heroic mode raids (WotLK), and that was really just the next step up from heroic dungeons already added in BC. Vehicles and phasing added in wrath might honestly be the only real one since BC, and those ones had very mixed results. (Phasing while more a system change had huge implications on gameplay as well, LFR, LFD, and CRZ are system changes with minimal changes to gameplay and quite a bit of negative feedback.)

    I pretty much agree with OP. While his presentation is a bit lackluster, pretending he doesn't have a point just because of such is ignorant. It's quite clear to anyone involved with WoW over the years that they have not only produced less and less innovative content, but they have slowly made things easier, clearer, and more open... which isn't completely a good thing.
    Following that idea, WoW Vanilla did absolutely nothing new. It was just a broader version of Diablo 2 - have character, raise levels, acquire gear, go kill bosses in dungeons to get better gear. In terms of your portrayal of "innovation" WoW was just an increase in scale of Battlenet Diablo 2.

    WoW is a constantly expanding and growing game incorporating new features as it ages. What exactly are you asking for when you want something "new and innovative"? It still has to resemble WoW and considering how much is included in the game already, I don't see how you could expect something new that isn't already based off of or inspired by something already existing.

  13. #133
    Bloodsail Admiral Goatfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totle View Post
    Following that idea, WoW Vanilla did absolutely nothing new. It was just a broader version of Diablo 2 - have character, raise levels, acquire gear, go kill bosses in dungeons to get better gear. In terms of your portrayal of "innovation" WoW was just an increase in scale of Battlenet Diablo 2.

    WoW is a constantly expanding and growing game incorporating new features as it ages. What exactly are you asking for when you want something "new and innovative"? It still has to resemble WoW and considering how much is included in the game already, I don't see how you could expect something new that isn't already based off of or inspired by something already existing.
    A hint for future arguments, don't make up a rebuttal to an imaginary argument just because you didn't fully grasp what you are responding to.

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Goatfish View Post
    Except it's not the same at all. If I were to add Toast to my menu at my restaurant it is nothing innovative at all going by the second definition because Toast, and adding it to menus are not new ideas in the slightest. It is however innovative by the first definition taken in an extremely narrow view because it is new to the menu if nothing else, and the definition does just say 'Introduction of something new' and not where, how, why, when it is introduced or to be viewed.

    See? In my mind introducing toast is nothing innovative, I can get that down the street, at my own home, most anywhere. Toast is nothing new and exciting because it's already been around. Now if I were to make garlic and beef fat infused focaccia and pan sear the sides to make toast... that might be something fairly innovative, because no one in the nearest 400 miles of me makes anything like that, so to my audience/customers, it is something new and innovative. Adding farmville and pokemon to your game, when your audience is gamers who have most likely played, heard about, or already made judgements about is nothing innovative. They need to bring something new and surprising (aka: Innovative) if they want to stop leaking subs. Pretending nothing new can be innovated though is ridiculous, just look at Rift Events, Secret World investigative and covert quests, TERA's combat system, Guild Wars balancing system, etc, etc. Each of these new games that are coming out are adding at least one thing new and innovative as a selling point. WoW is going with a different strategy of copying successful things from other companies and selling it as their own. It's underhanded, cheap, lazy, and apparently fairly profitable.
    It's usually in madness that we find the truth. While OP seems to have lost his mind, his general ideas and argument are pretty clear: move away from static PVE and make it more living world and engaging, to the point where your actions have an effect on the world, like in GW2 and Firefall and other new MMOs. They're not perfect, but at least they're trying.

    I for one would agree with this, because Warcraft deserves more than daily quest hubs. Much more. If Blizzard had any kind of self-respect they'd outsource the development for WoW to ArenaNet/Red5, split the profits from hereon and move on to their Titan project.

    Alas, the gaming business has not reached a Renaissance where such ideas would be considered anymore than madness and "you're a troll". That's the word for everything these days.
    Last edited by ragnarokvr1; 2013-02-09 at 10:57 PM.

  15. #135
    I am Murloc! anaxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by muchtoohigh View Post
    Activision has succeeded in convincing a majority of players of the following lie: daily quests are fun, and daily quests count at 'content'. Its a brilliant strategy on their part, convince the masses that doing the exact same thing you did from 1-90 (questing) is THE fun thing to do at level cap. Rather than have to produce new (expensive) content, they simply tell us to go run in a circle for a couple months doing dailies.

    Yes they still produce raids. However unlike the past, current raids no longer provide months worth of content as they used to due to their extreme ease, so Blizz needed another avenue of cheap, repeatable content. Daily quests were the perfect solution. Just don't believe they are real content as Blizz wants you to, they are simply the cheapest, easiest solution to solve the dilemma Blizz created with their choice to simplify raiding.
    Im sorry daily quests have been around since TBC. Also if VP gear rep grind is the mandatory gearing path then I see why you are so unhappy. Try clearing heroic raids. If you can't then I think it's a personal problem and you are the one pulling the drapes over players face because of your playstyle choices.

    I used rep vendors for a whopping 3 items. Huzzah! Then I killed the bosses and Sprint raced to full BIS with the grand charm idea. WHich is brilliant btw.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Pebrocks The Warlock View Post
    Just because you don't like Pandaria doesn't mean it's not new, creative, and exciting.
    Also, we aren't Blizzard.
    Well it's neither.

  17. #137
    Bosses attacking cities I would like. In vanilla and tbc i remember something like that happened

  18. #138
    I do like the idea of bosses taking over the major cities. Maybe every so often, maybe once within an event. Could be fun.
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  19. #139
    Id love to see less guards in the citys to encourage more faction raids. And im not talking just a little hour long raid and then go home, it would be awesome if there were a means to actually take over an enemy city, and the only way to get it back would be for the rest of the cities to group together and come to it's aid. That would force some server community

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  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by muchtoohigh View Post
    Id love to see less guards in the citys to encourage more faction raids. And im not talking just a little hour long raid and then go home, it would be awesome if there were a means to actually take over an enemy city, and the only way to get it back would be for the rest of the cities to group together and come to it's aid. That would force some server community
    This actually happened on Earthen Ring. The mega guild Alea Iacta Est were asked by the GMs to leave Stormwind or face disciplinary action.
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