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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    It doesn't take a genius to work out that following four high profile releases ATVI is going to perform well financially. I fail to see how ATVI's performance is some kind of vengeance on your part for not following the forum's rules.
    Because I was putting the meaning of subscriptions into a broader discussion of the MMORPG (and gaming) industry turning free to play I was banned yes. It was a disgrace because people still think that a subscription loss or gain has to be seen in relation to nerfs or CRZ or whatever.

    it is not related. The general markets have a much bigger impact on subscriptions and that market changes (again). F2P is no longer equal to earning money with heaps and the "sky is the limit" with exclaiming " we have zillions of players/people using our tools".

    Zynga and Facebook showed "zillions of people" is not equal to a money stream of REAL paying clients (be that hardware related toys or paid subscriptions). Now I know Facebook as such is more complicated than that, but time and space preclude me of going to deep into this subject in what is a trivial gaming site...
    Last edited by BenBos; 2013-02-08 at 11:26 PM.

  2. #62
    Mechagnome BigpapaBeef's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    Yay.

    Cybran's here to be a negative nancy.

    ..Again.
    Nothing negative about his comment. It is fact.

  3. #63
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    Because of what they said about Launchin Skylanders in china and them working on a new CoD game. Don't cream your pants guys it's not because of Blizzard.
    No, it's because of all those things.
    It's a company that:
    -Is about to release some profitable games.
    -Has proven they can still sell an old game to customers (3th best selling) and even gets them to pay a monthly fee for it.
    -Brings out a sequel to a game after 15 years and breaks all records.

    Stuff like that makes investors trust a company.
    And if they trust a company to make a profit then the stocks will go up.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    Because I was putting the meaning of subscriptions into a broader discussion of the MMORPG (and gaming) industry turning free to play I was banned yes. It was a disgrace because people still think that a subscription loss or gain has to be seen in relation to nerfs or CRZ or whatever.

    it is not related. The general markets have a much bigger impact on subscriptions and that market changes (again). F2P is no longer equal to earning money with heaps and the "sky is the limit" with exclaiming " we have zillions of players/people using our tools".

    Zynga and Facebook showed "zillions of people" is not equal to a money stream of REAL paying clients (be that hardware related toys or paid subscriptions). Now I know Facebook as such is more complicated than that, but time and space preclude me of going to deep into this subject in what is a trivial gaming site...
    It was not the subscription numbers that were responsible for ATVI's strong financial performance if anything they back up the theory that WOW is now on a slow but inevitable decline.

    But Zynga has nothing to do with ATVI it operates in a completely different market and similar to the dotcom bubble of the nineties investors were going to seize on the opportunity to make a quick buck off of a new market.

  5. #65
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    The only thing I have to say is that you can't have it both ways. When the stock goes up, you can't say that Blizzard had nothing to do with it if you're the first to say that it's all the fault of World of Warcraft when the stock goes down. I'm quite sure that there are many here that would say EXACTLY the opposite thing if the stock had dropped today.
    If you have anything to contribute to a thread topic, please do so. Discussing moderation or calling out specific people is against the rules and makes a post liable for an infraction. Please report problem posts. If anyone is unclear about the rules please read our FAQ. Thanks.

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  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    It was not the subscription numbers that were responsible for ATVI's strong financial performance if anything they back up the theory that WOW is now on a slow but inevitable decline.

    But Zynga has nothing to do with ATVI it operates in a completely different market and similar to the dotcom bubble of the nineties investors were going to seize on the opportunity to make a quick buck off of a new market.
    33 % of the total revenue came from Blizzard dude. And they did it with a game which is the ONLY one left as a multi million subscription based game. THIS EXACTLY was what I said for days now. Stock traders thought WOW would loose 3 to 4 million subscriptions due to the competition back in late 2011. That competition dissapeared as a sub based treatment in mid to late 2012.



    WOW subs are a HUGE part of the steady stream of income in these times where the gaming industry LOST 23 % each year for 2 consecutive years (and was even shaken up on Wall street by the F2P stuff that came out on the internet).

    I know my industry.
    Last edited by BenBos; 2013-02-08 at 11:47 PM.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    Well, it IS in contrast with Zynga games and their free to play stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    I know my industry.
    Zynga, dear Ben, also rose 11% today. Just saying.

  8. #68
    Meanwhile... Blizzard report losing 400k subscribers last quarter after the initial hype of MoP launch.

  9. #69
    Cant believe I am bothering to reply to a BenBos post as I know any form of intellectual converse is out of the question with his one track close minded Blizzard can do no wrong white knighting crusade.

    Yeah, because when a partnership that makes games that are known for being extremely dichotomous makes huge growth in a single day with the SAME SHIT they've been doing since the turn of the millenium and people are enthusiastic about the potential, that's 'white knighting'. It's lovely to see that after all this time, people would rather still take pot shots rather than make salient points. Bang up job, gents and ladies, bang up job.


    It doesn't matter if Blizzard wasn't the big contributor because they're still experiencing the positives. More investors will want to invest, more money will be gained to pool towards improving the products and resources they have, and more people will be turned on to the games they make thanks to Skylanders being a massive hit.


    It was not the subscription numbers that were responsible for ATVI's strong financial performance if anything they back up the theory that WOW is now on a slow but inevitable decline.

    Because Blizzard essentially is riding on the laurels of Activision while still bringing in millions of pounds of proverbial bacon? I really, really wish we could get to the stage where we all admit that, despite not liking the product, Blizzard is more than capable of doing its main job of a company, which is to make a fuck-ton of money.


    Activision said that they have a skylanders toy in the hands of millions of kids that will grow up indoctrinated.

    Which is what happened with Pokémon, and if I'm recalling correctly, nobody disparaged that series for being unbelievably good, profitable and popular when it came out. If Skylanders has the potential to be that popular, shouldn't we at least acknowledge that ATVI did a pretty darn good job, or are we going to bitch and moan like we have been because nobody here has an actual degree in Economics and is just guessing at the market with no educated process and tons of emotional baggage?

    Meanwhile... Blizzard report losing 400k subscribers last quarter after the initial hype of MoP launch.
    Oh look, another person dumping irrelevant information into a thread because they're still hung up on World of Warcraft but aren't being mature enough to admit it, despite their post history saying otherwise. How adorable.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by thevoicefromwithin View Post
    Zynga, dear Ben, also rose 11% today. Just saying.
    Zynga went from 15.91 to 2.09 . It now stands at 3.43 ...so they struggle (and nowhere did I say they can't make money, just not that it is what people expected).

    Mostly because they scrapped half of their free to play internet games and are now collaborating with POKER sites.

    aka STEADY income games.

    Nice try.
    Last edited by BenBos; 2013-02-08 at 11:56 PM.

  11. #71
    Elemental Lord Arbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by owenz View Post
    Meanwhile... Blizzard report losing 400k subscribers last quarter after the initial hype of MoP launch.
    An people are still playing WoW like its just another day in Azeroth with the majority unaware of the whole thing in general .
    I'm neither Pro or Anti Flying, I just have a different opinion on the matter.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    33 % of the total revenue came from Blizzard dude. And they did it with a game which is the ONLY one left as a multi million subscription based game. THIS EXACCTLY was what I said for days now.

    WOW subs are a HUGE part of the steady stream of income in these times where the gaming industry LOST 23 % each year for 2 consecutive years (and was even shaken up on Wall street by the F2P stuff that came out on the internet).

    I know my industry.
    Yes it did. But as you are so fond of pointing out D3 sold 12 million copies and then you have MOP which sold 2.7 million in its first week and I think it reasonable to assume that another million or so copies have been sold since that announcement. Blizzard's revenue has been buoyed by box sales; they have performed well in-spite of not because of subscription numbers.

  13. #73
    You guys do know that stock price are based on expected future gains and not on historical data, right?
    This just means that sub numbers are going to rise 10%, lol.

  14. #74
    The Patient Jazara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eschaton View Post
    The only thing I have to say is that you can't have it both ways. When the stock goes up, you can't say that Blizzard had nothing to do with it if you're the first to say that it's all the fault of World of Warcraft when the stock goes down. I'm quite sure that there are many here that would say EXACTLY the opposite thing if the stock had dropped today.
    This.

    5 years from now when WoW's subs inevitably ebb these same people will still be saying "WoW is done herherher!" Even though the subs rise and fall as expected, just as they have done before. For an mmo to have any substantial rise in subs after being out for years is a huge success. Losses are common, when not in staggering numbers like we saw in Cata, but we got big numbers back after Blizz addressed the issues that caused that hit in subs, a la MoP. But of course, anyone who points this out is a "fanboy" and not someone who invests their time and money in a quality product that still today reigns supreme within its genre.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by phenix View Post
    IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WOW (it remained unchanged anyways)

    If you look at the 3-5 year chart, ATIV isnt a stock that will wildly go up ot down, its a pretty constant stock. The reason one would invest in ATVI is that it has a strong dividend program. (iirc 0.19$ share this year)

    the major driving force this year is the performance of Skylanders swappables (the whole toy business is good), COD still being on track for china in 2013 and more importantly they had a very high yield on revenues (26% iirc; good business management) which makes acquisitions (new IP, etc) possible if needed.
    haha.. you are joking. You think someone buys a tech/internet stock for a 1.5% dividend? It is much MUCH easier to find a real estate or utilities company that pays in the 8-10% range and is much more stable. NOBODY buys ATVI for the dividend. 1.5% is nothing.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leslie View Post
    You guys do know that stock price are based on expected future gains and not on historical data, right?
    This just means that sub numbers are going to rise 10%, lol.
    You are right in one half: They are based on expected future gains.
    It's a gain in revenue however and not in subscriptions.

    Blizzard has proven that they can bring out top-selling games and even get expansions in the top 3.
    To investors that sounds like they've got the "Midas-touch", everything they touch gets gold.
    And they are probably right, Blizzard doesn't release crappy games.. All their releases have very high ratings and sales.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    Yeah correct. it was that MBA student I gave a D Minus on his analysis.

    Skylanders was just "trivial" and COD was old. WOW would loose massively (6 million in no time), Diablo didn't sell beyond 10 million after its launch and Activision was a sinking ship.

    I think if he hands in his papers now, he can forget his study year already.

    I remember what I said when reading his stuff ...: it is these kinds of "analists" that cost us our savings all the time...
    The really funny thing is he was wrong before this latest one.. and no doubt, in a year, he will post another ´atvi is doomed´ article and create some imaginary numbers and people will once again quote it as gospel.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    You are right in one half: They are based on expected future gains.
    It's a gain in revenue however and not in subscriptions.

    Blizzard has proven that they can bring out top-selling games and even get expansions in the top 3.
    To investors that sounds like they've got the "Midas-touch", everything they touch gets gold.
    And they are probably right, Blizzard doesn't release crappy games.. All their releases have very high ratings and sales.
    What? The Midas touch? Let's see in the past year they have fallen foul of Korean and German authorities for ignoring basic customer rights and their flagship game has yet again failed to hold on to its customers.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Archdruid Dehydrate View Post
    I think of the stock market as a game of chance, like the lottery or casino. All money talk is like a game of chance you could lose more than spend or gain more than you spend.

    I had stock in RIM (Research In Motion) I was hinted to sell my stock this was before they collapsed & I gotta a good month long vaction outta it and I just re bought stock before its rises again as they are back on there feet.
    is RIMM moving again?? Trading was haulted last I checked. Oh wait nevermind bbry was moving. derp

    ATVI managed to hit the top 20 active stocks today, it opened gap up, which I didnt care too much for. Id rather make my money on a gap fill.
    Last edited by Ayla; 2013-02-09 at 12:24 AM.

  20. #80
    The Patient Jazara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    What? The Midas touch? Let's see in the past year they have fallen foul of Korean and German authorities for ignoring basic customer rights and their flagship game has yet again failed to hold on to its customers.
    And when "their flagship game" releases 5.2 subs will jump again, as they've always done, before regulating again, possibly dropping before the next content patch, then booming again with the next expansion. Do you not see a trend?

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