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  1. #1
    Stood in the Fire Yzyz's Avatar
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    [Holy] Throne of Thunder 2H mace

    My Holy Brethren,

    I don't know about you guys, but I got really excited about seeing, Invocation of the Dawn (don't let the heroic tag fool you, that is normal version with a 522 ilvl). I did some number crunching and I just don't see it outweighing 1h + shield, sadly. It would be really close but with the sockets on both the shield and 1h, it just sets them over the mace.

    As it currently stands, Jerthud, Graceful hand of the Savior + Shield of Twinned Despair, will be BiS.

    Combined totals

    8926 Spell Power
    1376 Intellect
    938 Spirit
    865 Mastery
    +1 Red Socket
    +1 Yellow Socket
    +120 combined intellect from socket bonus
    +1 Prismatic socket on wep from Wrathion

    Invocation of the Dawn totals

    8925 Spell power
    1558 Intellect
    1085 Mastery
    962 Crit
    +1 Prismatic socket on wep from Wrathion

    Stat Differences

    With Invocation

    +220 Mastery
    +182 Intellect
    +962 Crit

    With 1h + Shield
    +1 Spell Power
    +938 Spirit
    +1 Red Socket
    +1 Yellow Socket
    +120 Intellect through Socket Bonus if met.

    If it wasnt for the sockets on the shield and wep, I think this mace had a good run at being BiS. Even now, it wont be a bad choice. With all the spirit available on gear, I am wondering how bad we would miss that 938 spirit. We could always reforge the crit to spirit if needed. I'll probably pick it up just for how awesome it is and test the numbers. I don't know, it could be a toss up.

    But sigh, Would make some badass transmog possibilities!

    Ps: If my numbers are off or anything, feel free to correct me. Thanks!

    Amazing sig compliments of Alyajna!

  2. #2
    Spirit > all. If i read what you posted correctly you will have 938 spirit with 1h and shield...will never give that up for a two hander personally

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBmNL...ature=youtu.be (#1 SSB Gold run on Bleeding Hollow)
    "Your lights will go out. The darkness will envelop you. And you will fear the shadows that move within it."

  3. #3
    Yeah but you cant bash people in the face quite as well as you can with a 2h mace.

  4. #4
    Stood in the Fire Yzyz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theholypally View Post
    Spirit > all. If i read what you posted correctly you will have 938 spirit with 1h and shield...will never give that up for a two hander personally
    That is why I said that the shield and 1h is currently BiS. Of course these are all stats minus any reforging which could make the gap a bit smaller.

    As it stands, yes spirit > all. Eventually though, we will hit a threshold that will turn Intellect to a more beneficial stat. Im running 14.3k spirit unbuffed at a 504 ilvl. Throne of Thunder normal modes are at 522ilvl... The amount of spirit on that gear is going to be ridiculous and eventually, we are going to want to relocate stats into other places. Would be interesting to see with full 522 gear.

    Amazing sig compliments of Alyajna!

  5. #5
    Dreadlord Silver-Fox's Avatar
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    I wouldn't mind picking it up and seeing it would fair after some reforging. Maybe critical chance into spirit?
    Last edited by Silver-Fox; 2013-02-12 at 07:16 PM.
    "Enjoy your power"

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Choptimus View Post
    Yeah but you cant bash people in the face quite as well as you can with a 2h mace.
    Sweet jesus I would be Holy if this was a viable healing method.

    Battle healer now scales from Intellect, or some such. Holy needs a Smash-Weaving style!
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
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    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
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  7. #7
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Sweet jesus I would be Holy if this was a viable healing method.

    Battle healer now scales from Intellect, or some such. Holy needs a Smash-Weaving style!
    Am I the only one that's completely against turning Holy into a "fist-weaving" type spec?

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    Am I the only one that's completely against turning Holy into a "fist-weaving" type spec?
    Ehh, probably not. I just never liked Holy (and have never BEEN holy for more than 30 seconds), as the heal style has always boiled down to "stand there and cast X, where X is FoL, HL or DL, depending on expansion". In MoP it appears that has changed, but I still CBA to play it.

    I think a lot of people who play this class have dreams and aspirations of being that "Holy Warrior" where we can heal our allies through strong attacks and smite our foes for justice and all that crap. Battle healer, to me at least, was a cool idea and step in that direction; it's probably why I love playing Prot so much right now. I get to do big smashes that yield helpful healing on my raid.

    If Holy had at least the OPTION to play with a 2H that smacked enemies and healed (eithe passively through said smacks, or by tossing out Light's Hammer and WOG-type things in melee), I'd seriously consider trying it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  9. #9
    Scarab Lord Valarius's Avatar
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    What Nairobi said. I can't stand Holy, it's far too "planted" for me. You move into position, and literally stand there casting until the boss forces you to change your position.

    I'm currently levelling my Monk as melee-healer and it's a lot of fun; I play all the melee classes and now I get to play a healer with a melee flavour to it.

  10. #10
    Blademaster
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theholypally View Post
    Spirit > all. If i read what you posted correctly you will have 938 spirit with 1h and shield...will never give that up for a two hander personally

    this is far from the truth. It depends on the fight. None of us have seen the heroic mode bosses to determine if mana is going to be an issue. I for one, reforged out of spirit for heroic tsulong and heroic sha, because mana was NEVER an issue (i had BiS aside from 3 pieces at the time).
    Iggy | <Apophasis> US - Shattered Hand |

  11. #11
    One thing you didn't take into account is the decreased upgrade cost if this was actually a viable BiS option

    Obviously not going to come into effect until 5.3, but you're getting the bonus stats for half the price which may just tip the balance if your spirit is looking good enough

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Ehh, probably not. I just never liked Holy (and have never BEEN holy for more than 30 seconds), as the heal style has always boiled down to "stand there and cast X, where X is FoL, HL or DL, depending on expansion". In MoP it appears that has changed, but I still CBA to play it.
    Waow, this is sad to read. It was the case in WotLK (and even then, making good use of the whole toolbox was important), but Cata revamp made me love Holy even more than before. And MoP changes are cute tuning to our dumb AOE HR cheesy style for packed fights.


    Back to topic : a 2H INT mace is merely an appeal for boomkin. For us, healers, loosing that armor from shield in order to resist to these bunch of physical AOE damages is not negligible. That's why I used off-hand to the last resort and always came back to a shield if luck stroke me twice with a loot.
    Last edited by metasaigneur; 2013-02-12 at 09:35 PM.

  13. #13
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by metasaigneur View Post
    Back to topic : a 2H INT mace is merely an appeal for boomkin. For us, healers, loosing that armor from shield in order to resist to these bunch of physical AOE damages is not negligible. That's why I used off-hand to the last resort and always came back to a shield if luck stroke me twice with a loot.
    Pretty much this. But most physical AoE isn't armor mitigated (surprise), that said I can readily think of some that is (Death Blossom), and also there are fights in 5.2 if I recall (at least one?) where you are forced to tank a mob fixated on you.

  14. #14
    Invisible strike is for instance. And even if it is only for a few gain, survability will always be my goal as a healer. Taking hits from adds and such is a pain with no armor. There are many saituations where we could soak AOE/single target physical damage (morchok, tayak, strike on mel jarrak, some of us even "tank" garalon's cleave, etc)
    But yeah, once on farm and overgeared it could be fun to run around with this mace as a show off ^^

  15. #15
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by metasaigneur View Post
    Invisible strike is for instance. And even if it is only for a few gain, survability will always be my goal as a healer. Taking hits from adds and such is a pain with no armor. There are many saituations where we could soak AOE/single target physical damage (morchok, tayak, strike on mel jarrak, some of us even "tank" garalon's cleave, etc)
    Oh don't get me wrong, I completely agree with you that if we can use a shield, we pretty much must use a shield to be optimal. Our survivability is balanced around the armor we have, look at lower-armor classes, many have far stronger defensives than us.

    Frankly I hate using a fan; also, another reason (besides disliking "fistweaving") that being "required" to use a mace, or having to try to consider survival/throughput tradeoffs doesn't really appeal to me.

  16. #16
    Yeah, since the beginning of my healing experience on Hpal (which is from my leveling 72-80 to the late 85's in DS) I never liked the clunky judgement mechanics even, so to get into melee to actually heal... Seal regen on white strikes can be fun but is far from mandatory imo, besides, casting resets swing timer, and DP and Meditation are great mana sources. I rarely risk taking damage or bring doom to my raid for being in melee range for mana regen (mechanics require a minimum number of caster if not bveing cast on CACs for instance, or cleave risks etc).
    Except on heroic progress where I try to find safe spots and momento, I don't use SoI regen often. Maybe it's an upgrade on my side that I should consider.

  17. #17
    If only it was viable...


    A girl can dream though

    one day...

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    Oh don't get me wrong, I completely agree with you that if we can use a shield, we pretty much must use a shield to be optimal. Our survivability is balanced around the armor we have, look at lower-armor classes, many have far stronger defensives than us.

    Frankly I hate using a fan; also, another reason (besides disliking "fistweaving") that being "required" to use a mace, or having to try to consider survival/throughput tradeoffs doesn't really appeal to me.
    You have 0 idea of how fistweaving works and complaining for no reason, if they ever added it the damage would be based off sp NOT str/weapon damage, and besides the ONLY damage that has some increase based off the weapon you use is the auto attack healing.

    So for instance on my monk, I have a 2h staff/polearm with more *weapon damage* and less sp, my overall healing would go down because my other heals would be lower.

    Same thing could work with paladin, and lets be honest out of the other healers, paladin is the most stand and basic healer which is why it is so easy to pick up. Too master it takes some time but the compared to other classes this class has always been one of the better ones and hasn't experienced any drastic change since HPower got introduced.

  19. #19
    Herald of the Titans Aqua's Avatar
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    Awww I wanna use a 2hander *kicks pebble*

    *sniff*


    Maybe once everyones geared n' cleared I can just have it to use for fun.
    Quote Originally Posted by savutitus View Post
    Yeah, it's always WAR WAR WAR untill..BY ALL THAT IS HOLY DO YOU SEE THAT ENEMY OVER THERE?? GLORIOUS LOOT!!!!!

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by velspine View Post
    You have 0 idea of how fistweaving works and complaining for no reason, if they ever added it the damage would be based off sp NOT str/weapon damage, and besides the ONLY damage that has some increase based off the weapon you use is the auto attack healing.
    Where did you read he was trying to explain fistweaving ? It was just speculation based on the presence of 2H INT mace and requests to blues to give Hpallies a similar mechanic : https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...97047126020096.

    We just don't want to see those kind of mechanics implemented as Holy Paladin... no one here entered in the details of WDmg impact or anything. You're flaming on your own here

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