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  1. #561
    Oops, haha!
    Searched for trinkets, saw basically the stuff i was looking for, didn't even check the forum category... my bad...

  2. #562
    Some1 know a reason why top hunters ( i mean hunters from paragon and blood ligion) put on Bottle 510 with some other 535 trinket?
    It'a all about for kill Lei shen (h)? or bottle still better then any 522 trink?

  3. #563
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rashomon Gate View Post
    Some1 know a reason why top hunters ( i mean hunters from paragon and blood ligion) put on Bottle 510 with some other 535 trinket?
    It'a all about for kill Lei shen (h)? or bottle still better then any 522 trink?
    Bottle is equal or better than the VP trinket depending on when and where the VP trinket procs, other than that it is probably just RNG that they haven't had a drop.

  4. #564
    Quote Originally Posted by Joyflu View Post
    Bottle is equal or better than the VP trinket depending on when and where the VP trinket procs, other than that it is probably just RNG that they haven't had a drop.
    vp trink is not on rppm system, so it's should be easy to calculate which one is better, isn't it?
    i think it's depend on how long the fight lasts

  5. #565
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rashomon Gate View Post
    vp trink is not on rppm system, so it's should be easy to calculate which one is better, isn't it?
    i think it's depend on how long the fight lasts
    Yes, but getting a proc just before a phase change where you wont have any benefit of the proc = a lot more wasted agility than using bottle, and stuff like that, having a smaller proc, very often compared to a big very rarely is pretty much the only difference between the two.

  6. #566
    and 1 more thing i can't understand. why talisman 522 worse than 510 bottle? it's for bm or for all specs?
    i thought haste is prety cool for sv, since t15 and rppm benefits from it.

  7. #567
    Quote Originally Posted by Rashomon Gate View Post
    and 1 more thing i can't understand. why talisman 522 worse than 510 bottle? it's for bm or for all specs?
    i thought haste is prety cool for sv, since t15 and rppm benefits from it.
    ilvl doesn't equal better. Bottle gives higher stats than Talisman, it's as simple as that.

  8. #568
    Actually, even with a crappy 18% uptime the vp trinket beats the 2/2 H bottle with 40% uptime. So even with bad uptime it should be VP trinket > bottle.

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  9. #569
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehstool View Post
    Actually, even with a crappy 18% uptime the vp trinket beats the 2/2 H bottle with 40% uptime. So even with bad uptime it should be VP trinket > bottle.
    Valor on average gives 1676 agility and 1467 hit.
    Bottle on average gives 1748 agility and 1313 mastery.

    With the amount of hit on gear right now I'd say the bottle is going to be better. When you have some gear, at least. If you can make full use out of the hit it's a different story.
    Bovan.9481
    Completed legendaries: Twilight, Sunrise, (Eternity), Incinerator, Bolt, Quip, Frostfang, The Juggernaut, Howler.
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  10. #570
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovan View Post
    Valor on average gives 1676 agility and 1467 hit.
    Bottle on average gives 1748 agility and 1313 mastery.

    With the amount of hit on gear right now I'd say the bottle is going to be better. When you have some gear, at least. If you can make full use out of the hit it's a different story.
    3935 * .40 = 1574
    8800 * .18 = 1584

    1584 > 1574

    Not sure what math you are using.

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  11. #571
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehstool View Post
    3935 * .40 = 1574
    8800 * .18 = 1584

    1584 > 1574

    Not sure what math you are using.
    (3935* 20 / 45) for the Bottle, (8800* 20 / 105) for the Talisman.
    ...don't tell me I made a big derp.

    Where are your .40 and .18 numbers coming from? Time spend to trigger the proc?
    Bovan.9481
    Completed legendaries: Twilight, Sunrise, (Eternity), Incinerator, Bolt, Quip, Frostfang, The Juggernaut, Howler.
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  12. #572
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovan View Post
    (3935* 20 / 45) for the Bottle, (8800* 20 / 105) for the Talisman.
    That is presuming the fight ends in a multiple of 45 and 105, respectively. Which almost never happens. So calculating their value that way is incorrect.


    Take these logs of my hunter guildie and me:


    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-p7...?s=2621&e=3208


    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-p7...?s=7328&e=7700


    Tortos % up time on the bottle : 37.5%
    Tortos % up time on the bottle (this is me) : 42.9 %
    Tortos % up time on the VP trinket (this is me) : 21.6%

    Horridon % up time on the bottle (this is me) : 34.0%
    Horridon % up time on the bottle : 31.4%
    Horridon % up time on the VP trinket (this is me) : 17.0%


    3935 * 37.5% uptime = 1475.625
    3935 * 42.9% uptime = 1688.115
    8800 * 21.6% uptime = 1900.8

    3935 * 34% uptime = 1337.9
    3935 * 31.4% uptime = 1235.59
    8800* 17% uptime = 1496

    The VP trinket won on both fights. VP trinket > H bottle 2/2

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  13. #573
    Actually what I did was exactly as described, I calculated the average values. When you account for things like cooldown (and trinket) stacking the values do change. And that is why I've been saying Talisman will have a higher value for Beast Mastery because it procs at the start of a fight along with your prepot, 2nd trinket and cooldowns.

    I don't think either of are wrong, but I think there is a bigger chance for a fight to end in a multiple of 45 compared to 105.
    Bovan.9481
    Completed legendaries: Twilight, Sunrise, (Eternity), Incinerator, Bolt, Quip, Frostfang, The Juggernaut, Howler.
    Current projects: Predator and Aether.

  14. #574
    more recent 25 council:

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=9883#Tehstool

    (I have the vp trinket and chasedown has the bottle)

    VP trinket : 19.1% uptime * 8800 = 1680.8

    bottle : 40.5% uptime * 3935= 1593.675

    VP trinket > bottle

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-24 at 11:00 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Bovan View Post
    Actually what I did was exactly as described, I calculated the average values. When you account for things like cooldown (and trinket) stacking the values do change. And that is why I've been saying Talisman will have a higher value for Beast Mastery because it procs at the start of a fight along with your prepot, 2nd trinket and cooldowns.

    I don't think either of are wrong, but I think there is a bigger chance for a fight to end in a multiple of 45 compared to 105.
    You can't claim that a trinket that gives more agility and stats is the worse trinket. Look at my council post 1688 agi compared to 1900? The clear winner is 1900.

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  15. #575
    Guys, i got Bottle 2/2 HC and normal Ranataki's.
    Today I used coin on Lei Shen and won normal thunderforged Rune of Re-Origination.
    Wich should I replace if any?
    I'm SV on most fights btw if that helps.
    much ty

  16. #576
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovan View Post
    Where are your .40 and .18 numbers coming from? Time spend to trigger the proc?
    The uptimes of the trinkets based on my conjecture of random uptimes.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-24 at 11:02 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by celibie View Post
    Guys, i got Bottle 2/2 HC and normal Ranataki's.
    Today I used coin on Lei Shen and won normal thunderforged Rune of Re-Origination.
    Wich should I replace if any?
    I'm SV on most fights btw if that helps.
    much ty
    Don't replace either. The stats the rune give are about equal to the 2/2 H bottle AND it messes with your stats.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-24 at 11:10 PM ----------

    My guildie was averaging about a ~20% uptime on the normal version, now that's not the thunderforged one, so we can assume ~22% for it. I'm assuming I'm more geared than you (just to show you how bad it is), so mine would give me minus 5540 haste and 3089 mastery and plus 17258 crit. Tha with 22% uptime would yield + 3796.76 crit - 1898.38 haste/mastery. So 1898.38 stats. That is just terrible.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-25 at 02:17 AM ----------

    25 man durumu

    We ranked 3 and 5 SV hunters with haste > mastery reforges. He was 519 and ranked 3 and I'm 517 and ranked 5. So, pretty close.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=7299#Tehstool

    I had 29.6 % uptime on renataki's and he somehow had 14.8 % uptime on bad juju. I've never had bad luck with renataki's personally.


    Based on personal experience I'd say that renataki's > bad juju

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  17. #577
    I have Bad Juju right now... what I would do for the Renataki as well. Bad Juju + Renataki + 2pc + Crit > Haste > Mastery build = One happy Hunter.

  18. #578
    Anyone have any experience with the RF versions of the trinkets yet?

    I currently have the upgraded H bottle and VP trinket, and thinking of replacing the H bottle with the RF bad juju, as it currently sims a pretty big boost. (due to crappy loot rng, I have to settle with the RF version for now).

  19. #579
    I had 49% uptime with my HC Rentaki (535) on normal Ji'kun today as Surv (no egg duty). :O

  20. #580
    Quote Originally Posted by Haxlax View Post
    I had 49% uptime with my HC Rentaki (535) on normal Ji'kun today as Surv (no egg duty). :O
    Ji-kun's logs are messed up, they don't properly register you losing the debuff until the person logging gets back in range from egg/add duty. Would you please provide a log?

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