5.2 Agility Trinkets

[Tehstool]

I've got:
N Talisman of Bloodlust
N Bad Juju
N Terror in the Mists [2/2]
H Bottle [1/2]
and the Shadow Pan Assault VP Trinket.

I'd use Bad juju + VP trinket.

I got the Talisman last night and the last time I had checked it was a possible (heroic) BiS, but I think I read Tehstool saying it's not as good as expected now or something along those lines.

That is correct. Before the buffs the agi proc trinkets weren't giving that much agi on average and could be insanely unlucky. After the buffs they are really good.

Just to paraphrase one of my older posts, would you rather be lucky and get 40% uptime on an agi proc or 40% uptime on a stats proc?

[Thiron]

I'm no good at reading logs, so I wonder - is there a way to measure average number of stacks from logs? Just uptime doesn't really give any info for Talisman.
Still, with 40% lucky uptime on AGI trinket, you'd need something like 3.5-4 stacks average over the fight to make them equal. With 30% uptime that is seen often, you'd need about 3 stacks average to be worth it.

[Tehstool]

This post may be able to help you out:

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...7#post20579377

[Deleted]

WTB more on use trinkets :/

Noo.... please!

I'd use Bad juju + VP trinket.

Is there any point where Talisman will be better than VP trinket (Normal mode one) considering how many other RPPM items you have? Like the legendary gem (once that is availible), bad juju and 2+4 set bonus?

[skitzy129]

Noo.... please!

Why? Having every trinket proc through RNG is soooooo stupid. I much much much prefer having one proc through RNG and another on use to use at your own discretion. Right now it's just a total dice roll for which points in a fight you're going to proc anything and a lot of times it tends to happen on phases where it's practically useless and wasted. It's just a bad system to rely 100% on RNG.

Not to mention SV already heavily relies on RNG as it is. I just want some control here.

[Deleted]

Why? Having every trinket proc through RNG is soooooo stupid. I much much much prefer having one proc through RNG and another on use to use at your own discretion. Right now it's just a total dice roll for which points in a fight you're going to proc anything and a lot of times it tends to happen on phases where it's practically useless and wasted. It's just a bad system to rely 100% on RNG.

Because it fucks over engineers.

[skitzy129]

Because it fucks over engineers.

What? How?

[Deleted]

What? How?

Using a on-use trinket gives you a CD on your glove tinkers.

[skitzy129]

Using a on-use trinket gives you a CD on your glove tinkers.

Well that's also retarded. Sigh.

In an ideal world they wouldn't share cooldowns and on use trinkets would actually exist again. Neither is going to happen though because Blizzard wants trinkets to focus on random funzies and not performance.

[Tehstool]

Noo.... please!


Is there any point where Talisman will be better than VP trinket (Normal mode one) considering how many other RPPM items you have? Like the legendary gem (once that is availible), bad juju and 2+4 set bonus?

Rather, wtb more RPPM trinkets imo

If it's 522 vs 522 and you have every other possible RPPM item, it's such a minuscule increase (~4% increase in realPPM items using a generous haste number based on Dela2k10's math). For example if I had renataki's I'd be gaining something in the realm of ~60 agi, but losing ~200 agi from the vp trinket thus losing damage from the procs of all the real ppm things. I'd say it's a touchy subject and I can't really tell you the answer to that. Really, if you have every possible rppm item then it looks like you can use either one.

[Thiron]

This post may be able to help you out:

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...7#post20579377

Mm, dividing uptime by procs doesn't really give you number of stacks average - 100% uptime with a proc every 9 sec is 5 stacks, but that calculation would give 1.1

But still, that doesn't really matter, at 60% uptime you can't get more than 3 stacks avg.

[Tehstool]

Mm, dividing uptime by procs doesn't really give you number of stacks average - 100% uptime with a proc every 9 sec is 5 stacks, but that calculation would give 1.1

But still, that doesn't really matter, at 60% uptime you can't get more than 3 stacks avg.

Oh I didn't really check their math. Sorry about that.

[eschatological]

I'm no good at reading logs, so I wonder - is there a way to measure average number of stacks from logs? Just uptime doesn't really give any info for Talisman.
Still, with 40% lucky uptime on AGI trinket, you'd need something like 3.5-4 stacks average over the fight to make them equal. With 30% uptime that is seen often, you'd need about 3 stacks average to be worth it.

IDK someone who is using Talisman offhand, but if you click on a person's name in a log, go to buffs gained, and click the "#" next to the buff, it'll show the procs of a buff over a fight. This also includes stacks, if applicable. As an example, the first stacking (de)buff I could think of was Static Wound on Jin'rokh, so here's Treckie's (Method's prot pally) log from a H-Jin'rokh. If you go to the Buffs Gained tab, click on the # next to Static Wound, you can see a graphic outlining the stack and how it decreases. You'd have to do math from that to determine an "average" stack.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...7/?s=238&e=504

[Gatao]

I recently switched from Terror in the mists+Relic To the VP trinket and the renataki lfr and my dps increased nearly 10k !
I belive Heroic renataki and the VP trinket will be the best this patch

[Tehstool]

I recently switched from Terror in the mists+Relic To the VP trinket and the renataki lfr and my dps increased nearly 10k !
I belive Heroic renataki and the VP trinket will be the best this patch

H renataki's soul charm and H bad juju should be BiS.

[Fullgore]

This is my hunter: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ntaro/advanced
Currently using Relic of Xuen 476 & Vicious Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault.

I've looted Bad Juju 502 lfr and replaced Xuen with it but I seem to do lower dps with it.. It barely procs.
Is this normal or?....

[Hayro1]

This is my hunter: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ntaro/advanced
Currently using Relic of Xuen 476 & Vicious Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault.

I've looted Bad Juju 502 lfr and replaced Xuen with it but I seem to do lower dps with it.. It barely procs.
Is this normal or?....

No, LFR Juju is better than an upgraded Relic, definitely better than a base one. I've gotten up to ~38.5% uptime with it on Durumu. It procs quite often on any ST, let alone multi-target fights.

[Windthorn]

Further proof of haste increasing proc rate of RPPM 2 set bonus:

Last reset I only had 2 set bonus and this reset I had 4 set bonus. So I decided on a crit>haste>mastery reforging route.

These logs show my 2 set procs with mastery over haste reforging:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=2638&e=3202

These show this reset with haste over mastery reforging and you'll agree that proc rates are significantly higher with haste over mastery reforging:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=9021&e=9531

Both horridon normal, encounter time was actually shorter on the second parse, despite that I had more 2 set procs. The first parse was almost one minute longer with 5 less procs than the second parse so those looking for proof of haste over mastery reforging can see haste does increase proc rates of RPPM mechanics.

[Deleted]

Further proof of haste increasing proc rate of RPPM 2 set bonus:

Last reset I only had 2 set bonus and this reset I had 4 set bonus. So I decided on a crit>haste>mastery reforging route.

These logs show my 2 set procs with mastery over haste reforging:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=2638&e=3202

These show this reset with haste over mastery reforging and you'll agree that proc rates are significantly higher with haste over mastery reforging:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=9021&e=9531

Both horridon normal, encounter time was actually shorter on the second parse, despite that I had more 2 set procs. The first parse was almost one minute longer with 5 less procs than the second parse so those looking for proof of haste over mastery reforging can see haste does increase proc rates of RPPM mechanics.

That isn't really true, I can get a lot less Thunderhawks one pull and then the next, I will get close to none. It is the nature of RNG and the sample size you've provided isn't really big enough to base an opinion on.

[Windthorn]

That isn't really true, I can get a lot less Thunderhawks one pull and then the next, I will get close to none. It is the nature of RNG and the sample size you've provided isn't really big enough to base an opinion on.

Maybe true for you, however certainly for me I am finding haste over mastery yield better procs and Dps overall even in heavy aoe encounters where you'd think that mastery would be stronger. Just my own personal experience.