I'm little bit confused. Talisman has higher avarge agility then both Bad Juju and Rentaki and has RPPM boosting our (according to many hunters) the most valuable secondary stat, yet, on femaledwarf (which is also backed up by consensus among hunter community) it sims lower then both trinkets (Juju and Rentaki). Why?
I prefer having an agi proc based trinket, because having 8k+ /16k+ agility at the start of a fight is ridiculous(in a good way).
This is also why I belive stacking haste over mastery showing DPS increas in this tier is because we got harder hitting weapons, not RPPM. For instance, to get additional proc from Bad Juju on a 10 min fight, you would need almost 20% haste from your gear.
Why not pick on the Hunter 4 Set which has an RPPM of 3 or the meta gem which has an RPPM of 21?
Also, the value of haste when it comes to RPPM calculations was pretty much put to rest when I released my spreadsheet some-odd weeks ago. It is a very real and definite benefit.
Problably read that diagonally and only saw "haste rating from gear".
Regardless, it is a proc that is hard to maintain, even after the proc buff. It's not a BiS trinket, but if you don't have 1 of the BiS, it's a good trinket to use until they drop (used mine with bottle hc till i had renataki hc(replacing bottle), then replaced talisman for bad juju hc).
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be Nooska #2, I'm just trying to get my head around why haste is taking ahead of mastery. After all, Blizzard didn't just role a dice and said - "Seems like haste and crit for this tier!"
Yes, you did made great spreadsheet and, as someone with background in math, your pdf did clear a thing ot two, but also it's not really what I'm trying to figure out. E.g. on your sheet, if I increase my haste from 0 to 4%, I'll get 10% avg stats, while we both know, out in the field I'll most likely to get none.
In short, the things which I'm trying to figure out are - is there any haste plateau(s) which we should aim in this tier (having Bad Juju / Rentaki / 2p / 4p /meta in mind). How is Bloodlust interacting with RPPM? How is haste (and RPPM) going to scale with the strength of the raid (e.g. fight which use to be 11 and half minute long two months ago is now over after 8 minutes)?
Last edited by Tsoni; 2013-04-08 at 08:35 PM.
For anyone who's curious about the haste benefit of Talisman of Bloodlust, I ran a series of simc reports, using the T15N gearset but adjusting the haste at 1k increments for all 3 specs, for normal talisman, LFR and heroic thunderforged. This gives a fairly good idea of what the expected uptime and haste benefits might look like from the trinket at various haste levels (which is more difficult than most to model as it affects its own proc rate).
Just one question. I know in multiple ocasions ppl asked to compare rune of reorigination and VP trinket and they got same answer, rune fucks up rotation, its messy and VP trinket should be the best choice. That is if you use usual plateau crit>mastery>haste or crit>haste>mastery. But my question is, since some ppl are going for haste>crit>masteri cos of new RPPM stuff, if we prioritize Haste over Crit, and we get haste proc from rune, is it still worse then VP one cos logicaly with those haste proc we will get more trinket / set bonus procs ?
Not really, sure you are attacking faster, but more crit and mastery will just negate the extra attacks you get (to an extent of course). If you get lucky with that you get more stats, but if you get lucky with renataki's or bad juju you get more agi. If you use it over one of those you are essentially trading agi for stats.
The thing with going haste>crit is that you will literally zero your crit during a proc except for the 5% crit chance buff from AI/LotP/wolf buff, since there's no short term crit buffs from any of our talents or abilities, outside of Careful Aim in MM.
I don't envy the idea of a 5% crit chance even with a huge haste bonus. The one benefit of haste (outside of autoshot damage, which would shoot up in a haste>crit trinket proc) is the focus regen, both passive and from faster CoS. But I imagine that during these procs CoS might very well be "wasting" haste by being GCD-locked at 1s, and you run a higher risk of focus capping, especially if you're trying to "fit in" lots of cobras to make use of the proc. Unmathed opinion, but that's just my gut feeling.
Then again, I don't have an RPPM trinket. While I did some math and simming and while I can read the results, it just doesn't quite feel right.
Next stop is the legendary meta gem. I know it's a big single target increase but... again, not many pure single target fights this tier. But that's a discussion for a different time.
Last edited by Bovan; 2013-04-09 at 08:57 AM.
Completed legendaries: Twilight, Sunrise, (Eternity), Incinerator, Bolt, Quip, Frostfang, The Dreamer, The Moot, The Juggernaut, Howler.
Current projects: Frenzy, mini Llama.
Btw how are LFR juju and renataki's compared to the vp trinket and bottle 2/2 hc ?
You should still have at least 15-20% crit after your crit rating goes to 0. You also have some baseline mastery that wouldn't go away, not that it matters.
I'm not arguing for RoO, I still agree that it isn't really worth using.
Can someone help me with a trinket decision?
I'm using VP trinket and don't know which one i should use as second:
-Terror HC 2/2
-LFR Bad Juju
(not very lucky with trinket dropps :<)
Last edited by Dela2k10; 2013-04-09 at 02:41 PM.
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