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  1. #1001
    please could you advise me what should I use :

    Relic of Xuen 484

    Vicious Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault 522

    Bad Juju 502 lfr

    Renataki's Soul Charm 502 lfr

  2. #1002
    The Lightbringer Joyful's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rav1410 View Post
    please could you advise me what should I use :

    Relic of Xuen 484

    Vicious Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault 522

    Bad Juju 502 lfr

    Renataki's Soul Charm 502 lfr
    Vicious Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault 522

    Bad Juju 502 lfr

  3. #1003
    ^

    thanks , and if i get my hands on normal Soul Charm should I use it ?

  4. #1004
    The Lightbringer Joyful's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rav1410 View Post
    ^

    thanks , and if i get my hands on normal Soul Charm should I use it ?
    Yes you should

  5. #1005
    Quote Originally Posted by rav1410 View Post
    ^

    thanks , and if i get my hands on normal Soul Charm should I use it ?
    In both FD and Simcraft, the LFR Renataki's beats the 522 Valor trinket. I run LFR every week to try to get the LFR Renataki's because it is a 2k dps increase over the valor trinket with my gear profile. LFR Bad Juju also shows as a 1.4k dps increase over the Valor trinket in my profile. It may be a different amount in yours, but it should be significantly more dps.

    Your best option of the trinkets you listed should be LFR Bad Juju and LFR Renataki's. Feel free to check a simulator (FD is a bit easier to use for most people because it's web-based and easily imports your gear from the armory).

  6. #1006
    Quote Originally Posted by Effinhunter View Post
    In both FD and Simcraft, the LFR Renataki's beats the 522 Valor trinket. I run LFR every week to try to get the LFR Renataki's because it is a 2k dps increase over the valor trinket with my gear profile. LFR Bad Juju also shows as a 1.4k dps increase over the Valor trinket in my profile. It may be a different amount in yours, but it should be significantly more dps.

    Your best option of the trinkets you listed should be LFR Bad Juju and LFR Renataki's. Feel free to check a simulator (FD is a bit easier to use for most people because it's web-based and easily imports your gear from the armory).
    It's easy to find out which is better with a basic calculator, however you have to test with different uptimes of the Renataki/Juju as it varies on every attempt. I'd suggest testing it at 10, 15 and 20%.

  7. #1007
    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    It's easy to find out which is better with a basic calculator, however you have to test with different uptimes of the Renataki/Juju as it varies on every attempt. I'd suggest testing it at 10, 15 and 20%.
    I haven't seen a 10% uptime on Bad Juju in many weeks, unless I was dead for a significant portion of the fight. The ranges I've typically seen have gone from 18% to 35%, with the average hovering around 25%. This is with ~7k haste, btw. Example parses (click "Buffs Gained" and look for "Juju Madness")

    Jin (35%) | Horr (18%--we don't actually attack all the time in our strat) | Council (33%) | Tortos (28.5%) | Megaera (20.8%) | Ji-kun (81.9%--highly anomalous)

    Superliminal (the buff from the Valor trinket) is very dependable and has an uptime that ranges between 18-23%, depending on the length of the fight (it's PPM and procs quite reliably).

    You got Renataki's on the 17th, so I'm sure you could provide input as to it's actual uptime but from others I've talked to, it appears to have a much longer uptime than Juju due to the nature of its 20s proc and its seed RPPM. I've heard between 40-60% average uptimes on it, especially from hunters who have switched to haste > crit instead of crit > haste, so they are maximizing their RPPM from meta/trinket/sets/etc. such as Renataki's. Of course, going haste > crit also affects the Bad Juju uptime. For instance, the top 25m normal Jin BM parse had 58.6% uptime on Renataki's and 48.8% on Bad Juju.

  8. #1008
    [/COLOR]
    Quote Originally Posted by Effinhunter View Post
    You got Renataki's on the 17th, so I'm sure you could provide input as to it's actual uptime but from others I've talked to, it appears to have a much longer uptime than Juju due to the nature of its 20s proc and its seed RPPM. I've heard between 40-60% average uptimes on it, especially from hunters who have switched to haste > crit instead of crit > haste, so they are maximizing their RPPM from meta/trinket/sets/etc. such as Renataki's. Of course, going haste > crit also affects the Bad Juju uptime. For instance, the top 25m normal Jin BM parse[/URL] had 58.6% uptime on Renataki's and 48.8% on Bad Juju.
    This is Makeasammich, at the time of my Jin kill I was crit>mastery>haste, so my up times on that kill was with greater mastery not haste. I switched to crit> haste>mastery when I switched to surv specKnoebels and played with other trinket for rest of the raid nite. These rppm up times are all over the place this tier.
    Last edited by Steele; 2013-04-28 at 03:33 AM.

  9. #1009
    Ji kun logs are messed up for the most part as you can see you got 40% uptime on superluminal which is impossible due to its ICD. It doesn't register you gaining/losing buff properly. You got 4 procs during that fight which is a maximum of 80 seconds uptime (on both) which is 20.3% uptime with your fight.

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  10. #1010
    Quote Originally Posted by Steele View Post
    [/COLOR]

    This is Makeasammich, at the time of my Jin kill I was crit>mastery>haste, so my up times on that kill was with greater mastery not haste. I switched to crit> haste>mastery when I switched to surv specKnoebels and played with other trinket for rest of the raid nite. These rppm up times are all over the place this tier.
    Thanks, Makeasammich. That's a really interesting uptime parse for crit>mastery>haste. I had no idea that even mastery was getting such high uptimes. Definitely food for thought.

    @Tehstool

    Yeah, I hadn't looked at the actual log for specific gain/lost buff. Honestly, I just had a log opened and clicked each fight that night to give a sample. It wasn't meant to be the average for the fight or anything.

  11. #1011
    Mechagnome
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    good grief, what trinkets should i use, Im BM Hunter now, most of the time

    I have LFR: Bad Juju, Renataki's and Rune of Re-origination

    VP: Tailsmen.

    No normal Mode Trinkets Yet, So what 2, Ive seen alot of people says, juju + rents, and no one mentions end boss trinket, origination.

    So what 2 should I use.
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  12. #1012
    Blademaster sharps287's Avatar
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    How are people still asking the same questions given all the information in this thread?

  13. #1013
    I have 489 Bottle, 522 Valor trinket and 522 Rune. Is Valor trinket plus Rune the way to go ? I have 8569 crit, 5782 haste and 3421 mastery. If I go with rune, does it change in the priority list while it procs?

  14. #1014
    Keep in mind that part of the variance in uptime on RPPM trinkets comes from length of fight. Your first proc is pretty much guaranteed to be very early in the fight. For trinkets with very low RPPM rates like Bad Juju, this will create a significant warping of the average uptime which gets evened out the longer the fight gets. RPPM procs are fairly erratic anyhow, but I just want people to remember this effect when considering average uptimes.

  15. #1015
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeherah View Post
    Keep in mind that part of the variance in uptime on RPPM trinkets comes from length of fight. Your first proc is pretty much guaranteed to be very early in the fight. For trinkets with very low RPPM rates like Bad Juju, this will create a significant warping of the average uptime which gets evened out the longer the fight gets. RPPM procs are fairly erratic anyhow, but I just want people to remember this effect when considering average uptimes.
    The RPPM uptimes were in response to a post that advised trying uptime calculations of 10, 15, and 20 percent. On especially long fights, such as Iron Qon, I've never seen Juju uptime at less than 20%, and this is for a fight time that has ranged from 10:45 seconds to 11:48, about as long as you can get in T15. Looking at these kinds of long fights is also where I came up with my average (~25% for Juju). I've also been seeing very good uptimes for Renataki in other people's parses, and this makes sense given its higher RPPM seed value. I think calculating either of these trinkets at 10, 15, or 20 percent uptime will give a very pessimistic value for the dps contribution of these items. And the 18-23% range for the Valor trinket has been very consistent for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mission View Post
    good grief, what trinkets should i use, Im BM Hunter now, most of the time

    I have LFR: Bad Juju, Renataki's and Rune of Re-origination

    VP: Tailsmen.

    No normal Mode Trinkets Yet, So what 2, Ive seen alot of people says, juju + rents, and no one mentions end boss trinket, origination.

    So what 2 should I use.
    LFR Bad Juju and LFR Rentaki's. And if you get a normal or heroic Rune somehow, you're still better off with LFR Bad Juju and Renataki's. We've talked about Rune quite a bit in the past few pages.

    Quote Originally Posted by sutoka View Post
    I have 489 Bottle, 522 Valor trinket and 522 Rune. Is Valor trinket plus Rune the way to go ? I have 8569 crit, 5782 haste and 3421 mastery. If I go with rune, does it change in the priority list while it procs?
    FD shows a 3k dps increase by using 522 Valor and Rune over the Bottle for a profile similar to your stats. Rune will change the speed of your shots and focus regen while it is active. You'll notice yourself casting more slow cobra shots while you're using it. It makes the rotation feel very lethargic, but the base agi is probably worth it for you in the short run. I'd definitely change it for Juju or Renataki's as soon as you get the chance.

  16. #1016
    Assuming 20% uptime for the "Vicious Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault" the average was 1760 agi and 1467 secondary stats .

    for Renataki match this value their uptime should be around 29% not counting the secondary stats that Shadopan has more.

    the average uptime of Renataki exceeds this %?

    you said the Renataki is better, analyzing with your gear? any gear? prioritizing which stats?

    I'm not great at math but I believe my values ​​are right.

  17. #1017
    Quote Originally Posted by Senx View Post
    Assuming 20% uptime for the "Vicious Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault" the average was 1760 agi and 1467 secondary stats.
    Why would you assume something that's not possible. It's a 20 seconds duration with a 105 sec ICD. If it procced off CD every time it averages as 1676 agi. Considering it is also only a 15% proc rate you could assume it would proc every 110-120 seconds which would make it a 1466-1600 average agility.

  18. #1018
    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    Why would you assume something that's not possible. It's a 20 seconds duration with a 105 sec ICD. If it procced off CD every time it averages as 1676 agi. Considering it is also only a 15% proc rate you could assume it would proc every 110-120 seconds which would make it a 1466-1600 average agility.

    In this same topic it was stated several times, countless logs where uptime is 20% or more, the SimCraft also simulates as 19.99%

    Dynamic Buffs Start Refresh Interval Trigger Up-Time Benefit
    vicious_talisman_of_the_shadopan_assault 4.6 0.0 109.4sec 109.4sec 19.99% 19.99%
    Last edited by Senx; 2013-04-28 at 10:51 PM.

  19. #1019
    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    Why would you assume something that's not possible. It's a 20 seconds duration with a 105 sec ICD. If it procced off CD every time it averages as 1676 agi. Considering it is also only a 15% proc rate you could assume it would proc every 110-120 seconds which would make it a 1466-1600 average agility.
    That's only how you calculate trinkets with fights ending in their ICD duration. It's been consistently ~20% for me.

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  20. #1020
    Dreadlord Supakaiser's Avatar
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    Quick question (since FD admits this trinket doesn't sim properly):

    Relic of Xuen (0/2) -VS- Rune of Re-Origination (LFR)

    My other trinket is the VP trinket (Vicious Talisman of the Shado-pan Assault)

    Armory --> http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...asera/advanced
    Last edited by Supakaiser; 2013-04-30 at 02:57 AM.

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