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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTrueM4gg0t View Post
    I don't know what gear you are running with, but the rune takes all our mastery rating away. this excludes base mastery and mastery buff, so what you are losing is the mastery on gear. which in my case (as SV) is maybe 3k, ak 5% magix damage, not 20%, same as BM, you won't loose all the 40% pet damage increase you have, only that part on gear. and you won't be getting 100% of a stat from the procc.

    As we still have a decent amount of haste+mastery baseline+buffs, I do think it will be nice to get a nice crit boost, or maybe even mastery boost (timed with BW as BM)
    that is true... but i dunno if its wroth it.

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehstool View Post
    Real PPM doesn't work that way. Sure you can get 2 back to back procs, but with the Real PPM the trinket has I don't seeing it having that much uptime.

    Renataki's Soul Charm – 0.56 RealPPM on landing harmful abilities and spells, and melee/ranged abilities and swings. 22 sec ICD.

    .56 Real PPM means that on average you will see a proc every 2 minutes and 7.2 seconds (before haste). The 22 second ICD is there only to make it so that you don't stack procs.
    thanks for the answer,didn't know it worked thta way

  3. #163
    Something's either really wrong, or there is no motivation to change trinkets for a whole new tier :/

    I like new shinies >_>

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by gulder View Post
    Something's either really wrong, or there is no motivation to change trinkets for a whole new tier :/

    I like new shinies >_>
    Yeah. Using the spreadsheet that that guy posted to calculate the value of 5.0/1 trinkets, H TiTM 2/2 is ~ 8164.48 while rentaki's soul charm is 8183.12. H bottle 2/2 is ~9017.55. H rentaki's is at 9240.15.

    The H trinkets actually look like a loss too. It looks like we are keeping H Bottle/TiTM 2/2 until heroic modes. The only trinket that I'm 100% positive of it being a dps increase is the shado pan trinket. The rune is odd, need more calculations and whatnot on it. The BiS trinkets based on my calculations for H will most likely be:
    H Talisman of Bloodlust + Vicious Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault. With H Bottle/TiTM 2/2 being the next best things. If the rune actually ends up being good then it would probably be H Talisman of Bloodlust + H Rune of Re-origination.

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  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehstool View Post
    Yeah. Using the spreadsheet that that guy posted to calculate the value of 5.0/1 trinkets, H TiTM 2/2 is ~ 8164.48 while rentaki's soul charm is 8183.12. H bottle 2/2 is ~9017.55. H rentaki's is at 9240.15.

    The H trinkets actually look like a loss too. It looks like we are keeping H Bottle/TiTM 2/2 until heroic modes. The only trinket that I'm 100% positive of it being a dps increase is the shado pan trinket. The rune is odd, need more calculations and whatnot on it. The BiS trinkets based on my calculations for H will most likely be:
    H Talisman of Bloodlust + Vicious Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault. With H Bottle/TiTM 2/2 being the next best things. If the rune actually ends up being good then it would probably be H Talisman of Bloodlust + H Rune of Re-origination.
    i am looking at things the same way. I have been unlucky as hell with elegon, hes never given me a trinket, i have seen 2 drops in 10 attempts using a coin every time. I did not get either trinket. So i t looks like my first new valor purchase will be the rep trinket which i will keep hold of for quite some time it seems.

  6. #166
    I read through all of this thread trying to figure out what trinkets will be BiS...Upgrades in normal or best upgrades to take from this tier. You guys did a lot of good explaining but damn I am still just as confused as before.

    I currently still run with the bottle normal, which I guess I will replace with the valor trinket and the Relic which I will replace with Bad JuJu or Rentaki's?

    The rune proc just blows my mind, can that even be simmed properly anywhere yet?

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    Rune sims so high because it works directly against Zeherah's modelling. You won't get proper numbers from FD with the rune, need to wait for simcraft to model it.
    Basicly, the spreadsheet averages out all the stats you gain from it over the fight, meaning at no point is it modelling you with zero haste or mastery, but a lower overall amount, etc...
    Just a point of clarification- haste procs are actually simulated within the shot breakdown. Crit and mastery procs are averaged over the course of the fight. The way I currently have the rune modeled, it is only using your base stats before procs to determine which stat will be procced and the quantity added and subtracted, then basically models each of the 3 stat procs as if they are individual trinket procs. So there are periods in the simulation where your base haste rating will go to 0 (assuming no other procs are currently active) but you're right in that it doesn't model the fact that the one stat is up when the other two are down, which decreases the value of the proc. It also doesn't model the way other procs might interact with it. I haven't looked yet to see how simulationcraft dps is coming out for the trinket, presumably it can model the RPPM trinkets a lot more accurately.

    I should also note that although I have a basic RPPM model implemented on my site, there are some severe limitations to how accurately I can simulate. One particular issue is that I have to estimate the trinket proc rates before I actually know the actual ability use frequency (for any stat except mastery which I can calculate later), so I'm estimating the attacks per second which means in some cases they'll be inaccurate. I also really haven't had time to evaluate in detail whether my current implementation is ideal- I need to find some time to compare results with simc and probably write some basic sim tests to see whether my uptimes are falling within expected ranges.

    So that's just a note to take any trinket results on my site with a heavy grain of salt right now.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Brewid View Post
    I read through all of this thread trying to figure out what trinkets will be BiS...Upgrades in normal or best upgrades to take from this tier. You guys did a lot of good explaining but damn I am still just as confused as before.

    I currently still run with the bottle normal, which I guess I will replace with the valor trinket and the Relic which I will replace with Bad JuJu or Rentaki's?

    The rune proc just blows my mind, can that even be simmed properly anywhere yet?
    The FD sim was for H T15 trinks vs H T14 trinks and Relic.

    Which means you will buy the valor trink, keep relic, and will not notice a significant dps difference if you switch to H T15 trinkets later.

    Assuming the sims are right that is.

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeherah View Post
    Just a point of clarification- haste procs are actually simulated within the shot breakdown. Crit and mastery procs are averaged over the course of the fight. The way I currently have the rune modeled, it is only using your base stats before procs to determine which stat will be procced and the quantity added and subtracted, then basically models each of the 3 stat procs as if they are individual trinket procs. So there are periods in the simulation where your base haste rating will go to 0 (assuming no other procs are currently active) but you're right in that it doesn't model the fact that the one stat is up when the other two are down, which decreases the value of the proc. It also doesn't model the way other procs might interact with it. I haven't looked yet to see how simulationcraft dps is coming out for the trinket, presumably it can model the RPPM trinkets a lot more accurately.

    I should also note that although I have a basic RPPM model implemented on my site, there are some severe limitations to how accurately I can simulate. One particular issue is that I have to estimate the trinket proc rates before I actually know the actual ability use frequency (for any stat except mastery which I can calculate later), so I'm estimating the attacks per second which means in some cases they'll be inaccurate. I also really haven't had time to evaluate in detail whether my current implementation is ideal- I need to find some time to compare results with simc and probably write some basic sim tests to see whether my uptimes are falling within expected ranges.

    So that's just a note to take any trinket results on my site with a heavy grain of salt right now.
    Fair enough, thought it would average out all 3 stats. But yea, as you said, it'll be very overvalued still, due to the nature of the proc.

  10. #170
    i have relic 2/2 and heroic bottle 2/2. When i replace relic with shado pan trink i gain like 250 dps according to FD (even when i reforge accordingly). Eh, silly how good that relic is or how other trinkets are shit.
    Last edited by ishyhunt; 2013-03-04 at 09:14 AM.

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemesis003 View Post
    i am looking at things the same way. I have been unlucky as hell with elegon, hes never given me a trinket, i have seen 2 drops in 10 attempts using a coin every time. I did not get either trinket. So i t looks like my first new valor purchase will be the rep trinket which i will keep hold of for quite some time it seems.
    pardon me but isnt the trinket the only item that drop of Elagon for hunters . so coin loot must be trinket what so ever unless u mean that u saw 2 drops of 10 attempts on both leishi + elagon

  12. #172
    hi guys, the patch is coming this week then i have a question atm i have the Darkmoon Trinket upgraded, and a trinket from the heroics(drop scholomance) for someone like me what kind of trinkets should acquire? i have dual spec Bm/Sv. from the info of this post i think talisman of blood and the trinket from the new reputation right?

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by keygy View Post
    hi guys, the patch is coming this week then i have a question atm i have the Darkmoon Trinket upgraded, and a trinket from the heroics(drop scholomance) for someone like me what kind of trinkets should acquire? i have dual spec Bm/Sv. from the info of this post i think talisman of blood and the trinket from the new reputation right?
    shadow pan the rep trinket with out any doubt , its huge upgrade to replace ur blue trinket and easy obtainable

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemesis003 View Post
    So i t looks like my first new valor purchase will be the rep trinket which i will keep hold of for quite some time it seems.
    Tell me about it. I am still stuck with Xuen + MSV trash trinket.
    Fire walk with me!

  15. #175
    why do u think Vicious Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault will be bis before H ? acording to my FD its even worst than Darkmoon trinket...

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by yakuz View Post
    why do u think Vicious Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault will be bis before H ? acording to my FD its even worst than Darkmoon trinket...
    it's little better then relic. But difference is almost non existent. About 250 dps... (make sure u reforge excessive hit and u'll get dps increase)

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by yakuz View Post
    why do u think Vicious Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault will be bis before H ? acording to my FD its even worst than Darkmoon trinket...
    The vicious talisman of the shado-pan assault should be better than both the H bottle and H TiTM.

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  18. #178
    Do we know what 2 will be BiS yet, or is it still too early to tell?

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by dmcadidas15 View Post
    Do we know what 2 will be BiS yet, or is it still too early to tell?
    According to my calculations it should be (take with a grain of salt since we will actually have to see)

    Normal: H bottle of infinite stars 2/2, Vicious Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault
    H: This one is iffy, but it should be Vicious Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault, H Talisman of Bloodlust. If the rune actually ends up being good (which I doubt) it should be replacing one of the two.

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  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehstool View Post
    According to my calculations it should be (take with a grain of salt since we will actually have to see)

    Normal: H bottle of infinite stars 2/2, Vicious Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault
    H: This one is iffy, but it should be Vicious Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault, H Talisman of Bloodlust. If the rune actually ends up being good (which I doubt) it should be replacing one of the two.
    Wow, I'm surprised the valor trinket looks like it will outperform the heroic trinkets. That's actually pretty disappointing.

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