Arena participation down by more than 80 (eighthy) % on my bg in MoP

[Funkthepunk]

- Very few people plays an alt actively because of the horrible gearing proces.

- A lot of players quit pvping before 5.1 because of the horrible balance (warrior/bm hunter/frost bomb) as well as the mmr bug basically ruining ladders.

- Players not returning to the game after 5.1 because of the gear imbalances and no possibility of ever getting gear equalized for rank competetion (because of the extremely long gearing proces).


Gearing has played a huge role in arena activity. That alone could fix plenty of issues. 5.0 balance was pretty fucked as well. Guess we will never ever see a return of Tbc/Wotlk arena activity.

[Itisamuh]

Arena participation has gone down every expansion since it was iterated. It's just not appealing to many players, and most that do it only do so because it's often been the only way to get the best PvP gear. For some realms, such as mine, it's still the only real way since rated BGs are a pain to set up.

As for the reasons why arena isn't appealing to a lot of PvPers, arena elitists like to say it's because they're bad, but that isn't true at all. I'm very good at PvP, and I hate arena. It's just not fun. I want big epic battles with my enemy faction. That's PvP to me, not extended duels in a box. I had a moderate amount of fun with it in early to mid BC, for a couple of reasons that don't apply anymore.

One, PvP wasn't standardized back then. There weren't certain comps everyone played, there was no armory to copy specs, etc. You could play any comp and have decent results and fun, because you never knew what you'd come up against. I played a warlock in quest greens, with a mage partner in raid gear, and we got Rival for that season. Obviously that's not the case anymore, and the community takes it so seriously now that they won't even consider playing anything but the best few comps. How boring and repetitive.

Two, PvP itself was just better back then. Now, I'm not referring to class to class balance. That was just as bad in BC as it's ever been, and always will be. But the general flow of PvP as a whole was much more methodical than it is now. You had time in any battle, with or without healers, to plan moves ahead, and you typically saved your CDs until the position to set up a good chain of moves came up. Health went down, and up, at much slower rates than they have since. It's the closest to skillful it's ever been, individual class balance aside. Ever since WotLK though, it's just been about burst and mashing CDs as fast as possible to land a kill, otherwise healers never die or let anyone else die.

Combine those things with the way the arena community acts with their unjustified superiority complex, and the general class balance, and it shouldn't be any wonder why arena participation is low. Especially now that it's not completely necessary to get gear anymore. Speaking of which, the gear grind takes way too long and removing that would benefit arena and BGs both.

[Baphomette]

I don't think the real issues are the pvp balance or subjectively dumb meta-game nowadays, the problem is blizzard literally saying to the arena population that they're valued less than the casuals and raiders (yes, blue posts said that during cata).

WoW is, was, and always will be primarily a PVE game, and I have no problem with that. What aggravates me is how they treat arenas worse than RBGs.

[yehyehyehyeh]

On my server everyone is playing RBGs because it is so easy to reach 2.2k and get the T2 weapons if you have somewhat enough time and enjoy RBG's (or just buy a boost). Arena participation is low because it is much harder to reach 2.2k.

What is even more retarded is when you see in tradechat "LF 3v3 partners, need to have T2 weapon, aiming for 2k". If you see that you just can't do anything but conclude that to reach the rating to obtain the T2 weapon in arenas, you are required to have the weapon already? This just shows how arenas and rbgs are not balanced with respect to how difficult it is to reach certain ratings/rewards. If you could obtain the same items that drop in heroic raids modes in easy dungeons I can guarantee that the amount of people playing the heroic raids will be MUCH less.

Blizzard majorly fucked up this season, and the people who enjoy arenas are the ones paying the highest price.

[Johnkie]

Worst expansion yet. And yeah pvp'ers are at the bottom of the food chain of blizz/activision enterprise.
To fix low populated realms, they should enable free migration/faction change from high populated servers... BUT THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN.

[Komamuris]

On my server everyone is playing RBGs because it is so easy to reach 2.2k and get the T2 weapons if you have somewhat enough time and enjoy RBG's (or just buy a boost). Arena participation is low because it is much harder to reach 2.2k.

What is even more retarded is when you see in tradechat "LF 3v3 partners, need to have T2 weapon, aiming for 2k". If you see that you just can't do anything but conclude that to reach the rating to obtain the T2 weapon in arenas, you are required to have the weapon already? This just shows how arenas and rbgs are not balanced with respect to how difficult it is to reach certain ratings/rewards. If you could obtain the same items that drop in heroic raids modes in easy dungeons I can guarantee that the amount of people playing the heroic raids will be MUCH less.

Blizzard majorly fucked up this season, and the people who enjoy arenas are the ones paying the highest price.

So sad but true :/

[KrumTheKing]

It has to do with the current season. Unless you're playing a certain class its just not fun in 3v3. I think arena participation will go up in 5.2... Most people are waiting for next season anyway. For example monks, it's just disheartening to play right now when you lose games based on things they will eventually fix in 5.2

[apepi]

Well I think rbgs are getting more populated than arenas, there is no point to do arenas, you can get a higher con cap much easier doing rbgs than arena and You have to do rbgs more to fill up that cap so rbgs are done more than arenas.

[Zendist]

Outer-rim BG's (outside Misery and Cyclone EU) are probably being used to score Glad and R1 titles. I know a few that migrated away a couple of weeks ago, and they're sitting up there now..

Would it be So bad if they mixed ALL the bg's together? So when you're Rank 1, you're RANK 1!!!1

[Roangut]

Well I think rbgs are getting more populated than arenas, there is no point to do arenas, you can get a higher con cap much easier doing rbgs than arena and You have to do rbgs more to fill up that cap so rbgs are done more than arenas.

This is definitely a major factor, but also the fact that you can get CP by just doing regular BGs as well. It was inevitable that when Blizz released more ways to get higher tier PvP gear without having to do arena that the number of people doing arena would decline. I for one have always hated arena. The whole class > skill things really pissed me off because if you weren't the lucky class of the expansion, you had no place in arena (as someone who has always liked Tanking and my enhance shaman that's quite often) but I would make a team and get beaten up while trying to get my 10 wins with my friends who also didn't care for arena. Our classes were never compatible and it always sucked, but we persevered just to get CP gear to stand on equal ground in BGs.

Ever since blizz gave me the option to get CP without doing arena I haven't stepped foot in there. I'm sure there are many others like me and since Arena titles have always been based on percentages (top .5% or whatever?) it goes without saying that less teams means less people get titles. Although, It just makes those titles more impressive though doesn't it? instead of maybe 30-50 people getting glad, only 10 will... unless you were one of the people that was cut off, then I guess you just need to work harder.

[apepi]

This is definitely a major factor, but also the fact that you can get CP by just doing regular BGs as well. It was inevitable that when Blizz released more ways to get higher tier PvP gear without having to do arena that the number of people doing arena would decline. I for one have always hated arena. The whole class > skill things really pissed me off because if you weren't the lucky class of the expansion, you had no place in arena (as someone who has always liked Tanking and my enhance shaman that's quite often) but I would make a team and get beaten up while trying to get my 10 wins with my friends who also didn't care for arena. Our classes were never compatible and it always sucked, but we persevered just to get CP gear to stand on equal ground in BGs.

Ever since blizz gave me the option to get CP without doing arena I haven't stepped foot in there. I'm sure there are many others like me and since Arena titles have always been based on percentages (top .5% or whatever?) it goes without saying that less teams means less people get titles. Although, It just makes those titles more impressive though doesn't it? instead of maybe 30-50 people getting glad, only 10 will... unless you were one of the people that was cut off, then I guess you just need to work harder.

It also lets other specs that are not good in arena shine. Tanks are also needed for rbgs,

[Bluesftw]

its mostly gear disparity at this point for me, started 2 months into the season and only geting basic caps in 2's or 3's cause rbg heroes are running rampart with upgraded T2 @ 1400 mmr blowing me/teammates in random instant cc with retarded dmg...gg outplayed

[mnm]

I know that I am not pvping anymore and have a lot of friends who are not playing because pvp sucks. Players most of the time underestimate the amount of people who like pvp more than pve.

This season was incredibly horrible. Hunters destroying everybody with stampede, warriors being disgustingly op, mages destroying people with a single frost bomb, 8 sec cd dispel ruining classes like rogues, spriests and their offhealing, healing before battle fatique, ferals, holy paladins having unavoidable and very strong ccs, totemic restoration, blood fear.. I am sure I am even missing something.

So you are pretty much saying that every class have something really strong to do when they really need burst dps, heal or solid cc. Isnt that fair? or BALANCED?! Imo ppl QQ too much, they think they loose because they are doing less dmg/heal/cc than another class, but the reality is that your awareness of the situation and the time you take to react and counter is much more important than the actual number.

[Korgoth]

When they make RBGs give more points they reduce Arena participation as lets face it most players are just loot whores in it for the epics. Think how much Arena and RBG participation would drop if it gave no gear.

[yehyehyehyeh]

Imo ppl QQ too much, they think they loose because they are doing less dmg/heal/cc than another class, but the reality is that your awareness of the situation and the time you take to react and counter is much more important than the actual number.

In previous seasons (except some seasons) you could actually outplay your opponents. Now in arenas, if your gear is somewhat subpar, you don't have time to outplay someone. The damage is so high that you have to pop all defensive cooldowns in the first 5 seconds or you will die in the first Shockwave. You don't have enough global cooldowns to actually outplay your opponents because you're so much forced into playing defensive. If after the first stun you're at 30% health, there's not much you can do afterwards.

But, let's hope that next season with the changes to gearing and some class fixes arena will be more enjoyable.

[PizzaSHARK]

So to finish off my rant, as it stands I don't see a bright future for arena at all anymore. It's low on blizzards list of interestests, there's a lack of an active pvp community and lastly, people just don't care anymore. This diablo related comic actually sums it up really well: http://www.nerfnow.com/comic/image/919

And it makes me sad.

For me, Blizzard continuing Cata's trend of immortal, infinite-mana healers is preventing me from becoming interested in PvP in MoP. I had fun doing BGs while leveling up, where healers were still valuable but could actually die, but at 90? Ehhhhh...

Then again, I've never been a fan of arenas except double DPS 2v2.

[Choptimus]

Most people just faceroll RBGs for higher cap and piss-easy t2, then don't do any more PvP except duels and random BGs, people don't do arena for competetive, good games, they do it to be uber leet pwnz0r and outgear their opponents. Only the higher echelons of PvPers actually enjoy competition.

[Darksoldierr]

Some really good points raised in this thread.

I used to really enjoy arena, now I regard it as a painful necessity....for a few reasons:

#1 Sometime during Cata I took a year off from WoW, and started MoP in December, levelling to 90 in January. This meant that I was behind the times gear wise, and had to go through the agony of being totally stomped in BGs due to gear disparity. I then went through the exact same thing in arena. That was less than fun. The gear disparity in arena was so immense it was ridiculous.

#2 PvP is very bursty now, which serves to emphasise gear disparities. Combined with every class having some kind of CC, matches can end very quickly with players frequently not being in control of their characters for significant periods of time.

That is the worst part of arena currently for me. I entered into my first few matches trying to use my CC's and CD's strategically as I would have in earlier arena seasons, and lost over and over to players who just blew all their CDs immediately and killed me in 5 GCDs or less. Its slightly better now that I have resilience, but not a whole lot.

Exactly my situation, got to 90 on 17th of January, and even now with 64% resilience, some classes destroy me in a silence / stun. I didn't played during cata at all, so im not sure, how it was there, but the damage since wotlk feels like tripple, and minimum ten times more bursty than in tbc

[Drixar]

Exactly my situation, got to 90 on 17th of January, and even now with 64% resilience, some classes destroy me in a silence / stun. I didn't played during cata at all, so im not sure, how it was there, but the damage since wotlk feels like tripple, and minimum ten times more bursty than in tbc

- People complained TBC was too much like a chess match

- WolK changed (more bursty) people complained there was too much damage

- Cata balanced bursty + Chess (for the most part) - People complained it was too slow and made boring matches, some thought it was too fast (or too long)

- MoP very bursty as people wanted a more WotlK style PvP, now people complain theres too much damage flying around and too many quick CC's.

People are never happy, personally i think PvP is the same as its always been in a first season of an expansion.

p.s. it really surprises me how nobody remembers haste specced mages enduring wotlk...insane CC and very rapid

[Senathor]

Of course. The beginning of MoP had such overpowered classes that s5 DK's seemed bad.... Maaaybe it will get better in 5,2 but we all know where the game is going.

---------- Post added 2013-02-12 at 03:43 PM ----------

its mostly gear disparity at this point for me, started 2 months into the season and only geting basic caps in 2's or 3's cause rbg heroes are running rampart with upgraded T2 @ 1400 mmr blowing me/teammates in random instant cc with retarded dmg...gg outplayed

So you can't get past 1400? Must... Blame... GEAR!

---------- Post added 2013-02-12 at 03:46 PM ----------

So you are pretty much saying that every class have something really strong to do when they really need burst dps, heal or solid cc. Isnt that fair? or BALANCED?! Imo ppl QQ too much, they think they loose because they are doing less dmg/heal/cc than another class, but the reality is that your awareness of the situation and the time you take to react and counter is much more important than the actual number.

How is balanced justified when it's broken? If two classes have an ability that deals 5 trillion billions million trillion damage, would you be fine with the supposed "balance"?