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  1. #1

    Is it a Single Target DPS increase to DOT all the paragons on Heroic?

    The warlock in my guild says it is but his reasoning was Shadow Trance, but looking at the tooltip it says the most recently applied corruption so I'm confused. After pointing that out he said it's better for his trinket procs. I don't know much about warlocks so could you guys help me out with a concise argument against what I think is just him padding.


    Edit: I forgot he is affliction and these are our logs http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/ZKgtc3P1VxAhbnDw
    Last edited by McGurk; 2014-02-25 at 02:34 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Iyona View Post
    Fury Warriors: GRAAWR IM SO DAMN MAD MY BLOOD FREAKIN RAGES. A WARLOCK! NEED TO KILL HIM, NEED TO SEE HIM DEAD!! RAAAAAWRRR WTF HE FEARED ME FUUCK I DONT CARE CUZ IM SO MAD MY RAGE BREAKS IT!! CHAAARGE OH WHAAT HE HURT ME?? DAMN THAT ENRAGES ME EVEN MORE RAAAAWRRR!! WTF NOW I RAGE SO HARD IT MAKES ME EVEN MORE MAD!! I BLEED BUT I DONT CARE CUZ IM SO FUCKIN MAD MY WOUNDS CLOSE THEMSELVES!! .. Ok now I'm somewhat calm again.

    That should summarize a Fury Warrior's... Fury?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by McGurk View Post
    The warlock in my guild says it is but his reasoning was Shadow Trance, but looking at the tooltip it says the most recently applied corruption so I'm confused. After pointing that out he said it's better for his trinket procs. I don't know much about warlocks so could you guys help me out with a concise argument against what I think is just him padding.
    As Aff? No. Demo/Destro yes. He should read up on RPPM and Shadow Trance.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    As Aff? No. Demo/Destro yes. He should read up on RPPM and Shadow Trance.
    Alright, thanks. That pretty much confirms my thoughts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Iyona View Post
    Fury Warriors: GRAAWR IM SO DAMN MAD MY BLOOD FREAKIN RAGES. A WARLOCK! NEED TO KILL HIM, NEED TO SEE HIM DEAD!! RAAAAAWRRR WTF HE FEARED ME FUUCK I DONT CARE CUZ IM SO MAD MY RAGE BREAKS IT!! CHAAARGE OH WHAAT HE HURT ME?? DAMN THAT ENRAGES ME EVEN MORE RAAAAWRRR!! WTF NOW I RAGE SO HARD IT MAKES ME EVEN MORE MAD!! I BLEED BUT I DONT CARE CUZ IM SO FUCKIN MAD MY WOUNDS CLOSE THEMSELVES!! .. Ok now I'm somewhat calm again.

    That should summarize a Fury Warrior's... Fury?

  4. #4
    lol, busted!!! affliction sucks on this fight if you're still progressing

  5. #5
    Brewmaster mitbrandir's Avatar
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    Yeahh, multidotting isn't nice there as affi, but it is as destro/demo because with more immolate rolling you get more embers, and as demo with the corruption+doom going you get more imps and more demonic fury, but what warlock in his right mind would play demo in heroic progression given its not onpar with the other specs. I think destro would be best here, tho I have not done this fight on heroic.
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by mitbrandir View Post
    but what warlock in his right mind would play demo in heroic progression
    I do, because overall dps isn't that important for Klaxxi hc, but more to be able to deliver burst damage on certain windows.
    Destro does this job well too, but the timings are better suited for Demo (in my raid group).

  7. #7
    To generalize it, in a fight where you have multiple targets but don't have a direct gain from damaging any other than the focus target, you may want to multidot / cleave anyway if you can get a damage boost through it. Like a DoT that has a chance to give you a proc with each tick will in many cases have a significantly higher proc rate when cast on multiple targets, or cleave attacks that proc stuff based on the number of hits or grant a bonus for each additional hit.

    If you wonder about how effective that really is for your class / spec / boss you might want to run a few tests on the same boss with different tactics, LFR is a great for that.
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Zharradan View Post
    lol, busted!!! affliction sucks on this fight if you're still progressing
    What? No. Best damage on opener to get Skeer down asap and best damage during BL to get Xaril down. If you think Affli is bad on Klaxxi you're the problem, not the spec.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonkura View Post
    What? No. Best damage on opener to get Skeer down asap and best damage during BL to get Xaril down. If you think Affli is bad on Klaxxi you're the problem, not the spec.
    Destruction is just as good at bursting down bloodseeker on the pull fyi.
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  10. #10
    While i would say it isnt 100% dps increase, i would say it is a increase for 3 reasons.
    1. 2 set, the more UA's you have out the higher the uptime on the 15% damage for MG/DS
    2. while it probably isnt much in the long run by multi dotting you are getting more APS (attacks per second) which can give you higher uptimes on your RPPM trinkets.
    3. if you are assigned to pick up skeers body, if u dot all 3 and the hit the cd on it while spamming mg you throw out insane amounts of healing orbs

    Just my opinon, i much more prefer affliction to the destro, i just find destro so boring lol

    edit- ill say it myself before i get destroyed here lol, aff is also by far the highest padding spec of the 3 and i in no way deny that. If you are to argue though that aff is trash just cuz it pads i will call you an idiot because it is very very competive without padding
    Last edited by Heckadots; 2014-02-25 at 02:00 PM.

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  11. #11
    Brewmaster Anzen's Avatar
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    Haha I love this fight for so many reasons.

    Hearing peoples excuses of why they need to multidot on this fight is hilarious.

    Just seen the Affi Lock did 66M to him and topped aswell haha.

    http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...done&target=42

    Since Ka'roz is up basically the whole fight it's a nice way to see who's padding.

    I think he's taking you all for mugs :P

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Anzen View Post
    Haha I love this fight for so many reasons.

    Hearing peoples excuses of why they need to multidot on this fight is hilarious.

    Just seen the affi lock topped aswell haha.
    Some classes benefit from multidotting such as Boomkins with shooting stars-procc, so theres actually nothing "hilarious" about it.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trollfaced View Post
    Some classes benefit from multidotting such as Boomkins with shooting stars-procc, so theres actually nothing "hilarious" about it.
    IIRC correctly Zoomkins said it wasn't a single target DPS increase to multidot for Boomie.

    Also the Destro Locks in that parse are using Havoc > Chaos Bolt (& Shadowburn rofl) pretty much on CD. Would love to hear how they can explain that being a single target DPS increase.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    Just focus on the mechanics. The only time I multidot on Paragons Heroic is during Korven/Hisek split push (obviously) and at the start before Bloodletting happens.

    Simcraft says it is a 3% single target DPS loss to multi-dot a second target and an 8% loss to multi-dot 3 targets.
    Le MMO thread about it

  14. #14
    Zoomkin isn't even close to being the best boomkin though, he is solid but that's it. Afaik it's gain to put your eclipse dot on 2-3 targets. But yea it's probably really minor.
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  15. #15
    Anzen: Everybody is entitled to their opinion, but you'll find out the truth by just checking the tooltip of Shooting Stars.

    No need to be awkward about it.
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  16. #16
    Brewmaster Anzen's Avatar
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    Well okay, I'll leave it there, the debate could be carried on through the thread I linked but as far as I'm aware it's a single target DPS loss to multi-dot like that (as a boomkin).

    On topic: All three of your warlocks are very clearly padding.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by fneelis View Post
    Zoomkin isn't even close to being the best boomkin though, he is solid but that's it. Afaik it's gain to put your eclipse dot on 2-3 targets. But yea it's probably really minor.
    And why would it be important for the dots to be eclipsed? You could just aswell use the uneclipsed dot, as long as its boosted by nature´s grace.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Zharradan View Post
    lol, busted!!! affliction sucks on this fight if you're still progressing
    I wouldn't say so, given that pretty much every top 100 kill of klaxxi had warlocks playing Affliction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heckadots View Post
    While i would say it isnt 100% dps increase, i would say it is a increase for 3 reasons.
    1. 2 set, the more UA's you have out the higher the uptime on the 15% damage for MG/DS
    The uptime gained from that would not outweigh the loss of damage from wasted globals on other targets, given that it has 80%+ uptime single target anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heckadots View Post
    2. while it probably isnt much in the long run by multi dotting you are getting more APS (attacks per second) which can give you higher uptimes on your RPPM trinkets.
    RPPM trinkets do not work in this way. More attacks does not equal more procs.

  19. #19
    Saying "every top 100 kill of klaxxi had warlocks playing affliciton" is a bit disingenuous considering the top kills with aff locks were back when aff locks were extremely strong pre nerf. Most of the top kills were aff/demo locks.
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  20. #20
    You do need to consider what specs were "hot" vs when the progression kill was made...I seem to recall Sparkuggz running demo on h.paragons since it was still UVLS pre nerf but its not a good idea to try that now. Aff was stronger pre nerfs so its skewed somewhat. Destro is probably the most reliable on that fight if nothing else for ember tap survival since there are sooo many ways RNG can combine to screw people so every brez counts.

    More to the OP demo would gain more imps from more doom thus more DF....whether or not that outpaces the cost of the DF for the dooms is probably math'able but its at least very probable. Aff gains nothing single target from multi dotting. Destro gains embers though I'm not sure manually casting immolates is always a gain...maybe with 4pc proc? I do tend to drop a RoF on the area of the kill target when there are 3+ targets for the ember gain. I use havoc + ember builders (conflag/immo/incin) but not for ember spenders (CB/Sburn).

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