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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by babo7000 View Post
    Well i mean Varians change was gradual, just that it all took place outside of game.

    Garrosh's could be considered gradual, but it came off as him going from harsh warchief in Cata, to mad dictator in ToW/MoP
    You're right, but what I meant about Varian was more how they made him change. He just seems like the wisest and oldest man alive in the 5.1 story (a Little Patience comes to mind) and Blizzard made sure that the players recognised that. Also, the whole maturing process of Anduin wasn't dealt with at all (talking about ingame story now obviously). He went from playing detective to the leader of the army of the light.

    Personally, I don't like it. It's not bad at all, I just don't like it. What IS bad about it though, is the fact how they handled the story ingame. Ingame storytelling was always bad but this time, where they tried to pack more story into the dailies and the quests in general, they blatantly failed imo. It's like there's not development at all, just pure "here's the story, that's how the characters are, deal with it".

  2. #42
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    He is a twisted ookin dooker...

  3. #43
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Neither.
    He's not insane nor has he been corrupted in some fashion. I'm not sure why he would be insane, for all his shoddy writing their is a warped sense of rational in his actions - no Alliance no problem for the Horde or his people.
    Still this doesn't make it right. But you can't just write it off as him going loco.

  4. #44
    Mechagnome Akarui's Avatar
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    Honestly I/we don't know, could be either or a mix of both, just speculation until blizz gives out some infomation regarding that, will likely get a little in 5.2 and definitly all will be answered in the last patch of mop.

    Personally though, I think he just went batsh*t crazy under the pressure of becoming Warchief, trying to live up to his father's legacy (If you can call it that), honor that Thrall and old Saurfang trust him to maintain, but also trying to secure land for the horde. While all of these points may be refuted, this is just my personal opinion of Garrosh.
    Of course I still don't like him, but I truly wonder if he took Saurfang's words to heart.

    Off topic: Speaking of Saurfang, he said "I won't let you take us down that dark path again, young Hellscream. I'll kill you myself before that day comes..."
    “4chan once took on the FBI and won,” a Brony told the New York Observer, “so you might say that My Little Pony is more powerful than the FBI.” Sethisto

  5. #45
    I think it's a safe bet that Garrosh is possessed by the Sha. It makes the story of Pandaria go full circle once we fight the final culmination of the Sha and end that chapter entirely.

    Blizzard likes to tie up loose ends each expansion. So the Sha remaining is a big no.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-09 at 05:40 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    Neither.
    He's not insane nor has he been corrupted in some fashion. I'm not sure why he would be insane, for all his shoddy writing their is a warped sense of rational in his actions - no Alliance no problem for the Horde or his people.
    Still this doesn't make it right. But you can't just write it off as him going loco.
    Malygos wasn't insane either. No Alliance and Horde = no playing with arcane magic = no threat from the Burning Legion.
    The Lich King wasn't insane either. No Alliance and Horde, but all Scourge = good army to fight the Burning Legion.

    Actually, the only end boss that was truly insane is Deathwing. He just wanted to kill everything for the sake of it. To order Azeroth in silence.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Salandrin View Post
    It just kind of bothers me how not too long ago, Garrosh was a fairly decent Warchief who valued honor, and a fair fight, to this insane, honorless psychopath we have now.

    Do you think something is really controlling his mind, or he's just snapped by himself?
    I'm actually wondering if it wasn't a change made by the vocal masses saying they hated Garrosh. Thus, the writers warped him into what he is now. Metzen seemed pretty insistent that Garrosh would redeem himself and be a cool guy. That never really panned out (he was always just obnoxious to me) for whatever reason. So, now we have this.

    As far as what the reason will be, I'll go with the "drunk with power" thing. That made him arrogant. Arrogance blinded him as he sought more power, grasping at anything that would give it to him. Then he saw the sha. And his eyes bugged out and his jaw hit the floor and he missed all the negative side affects. He's going to pay for it.

  7. #47
    He's taking queues from his astrologer. In 5.3 he will sell weapons to the Night Elves to fund a proxy war against the Echo Isles which will be fought by the Defias. It'll be called the Teldrassil-Defias Affair and in 5.4 the Horde will be bringing him before a Senatorial Committee for hearings where he will say he doesn't remember any of it.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    He's insane, he's not corrupted by some evil power or some evil voice in his ear, he's just an insane and power hungry orc.

    He's a dictator, a tyrant, in the same school as Stalin, Mao Zedong and Oliver Cromwell. He doesn't need to be 'corrupted by evil powers', he's just an orc who wants to dominate the world and crush anyone under his foot to do so. If THAT doesn't give you warning bells into the state of mind he is, your kind of clueless to the lessons of history.

    And all this crap about 'uurrr, he wasn't like this ins cata!', yeah, HE WAS, but you got fooled by small details. It be like if Hitler patted a kitten, suddenly that makes all he did and was to do alright? Yeah, thats your way of seeing this issue.
    ^^

    This.

    I'm not sure where all this honorable stuff is coming from. He kicked out most of the other races, using just enough of each race for what ever they're good for, but for defenders he wants only orcs, he threatens sylvanas NOT because she's a danger to just Alliance but he views her a danger to himself as well. Pretty sure one of the first Warsong Hold quests, maybe like 10 quests in, he sends you on an obvious suicide mission in which Saurfang shows up, saves you, and tells you to mention nothing of him. Garrosh just scoffs saying your stronger than he thought and sends you away from there to another village.

    Even in the wiki it points out that just from seeing him in BC, to WotLK he becomes more hotblooded and reckless and then that trend continues into Cata, he's been on a decline since BC.


    And who ever said "Well it's becoming more and more obvious as the patches go by".. I'm sure Blizz assumes we have to dislike him to kill him in a raid, much like blizzard assumed my Panda hated Varian because he was Alliance in that whole quest chain where they showed my "true hatred". I didn't even know I didn't like the guy, but Blizz made sure I had some inkling of dislike.



    I personally think possession is more of a cop out than him being genuinely insane.

    "Clearly this soldiers/warlord's not drunk on blood lust or power, he's possessed by evil things."
    "But he's been getting a bit crazier as time went on for years"
    "Well yeah, it's slowly eating at him."
    "Maybe he's just seen to much?"
    "Impossible, why would you think such illogical things, clearly it's all magical. People don't just descend into Madness!"

    If it was an old god though, it better be N'Zoth who, from what little we know about him, seems to be the Old God of Maddness/Insanity.

    ... Or that's just me still bitter about no N'Zoth in Cataclysm.


    I'd still rather see Garrosh fall in under his own mental weight though, not because that's "easy way out" for some people, but because it's more believable to me from his own actions spanning BC to now.


    "His chief advisor, High Overlord Saurfang - who drank from the same chalice that corrupted Grom Hellscream - warns against Garrosh's savage tactics, fearing a resurgence of the bloodlust that had dominated the Horde prior to the death of Mannoroth. " - WotLK, Warsong Hold, Level 68 stuff. 2008
    Last edited by Tazila; 2013-02-09 at 05:26 PM.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Tazila View Post
    ^^

    This.

    I'm not sure where all this honorable stuff is coming from. He kicked out most of the other races, using just enough of each race for what ever they're good for, but for defenders he wants only orcs, he threatens sylvanas NOT because she's a danger to just Alliance but he views her a danger to himself as well. Pretty sure one of the first Warsong Hold quests, maybe like 10 quests in, he sends you on an obvious suicide mission in which Saurfang shows up, saves you, and tells you to mention nothing of him. Garrosh just scoffs saying your stronger than he thought and sends you away from there to another village.

    Even in the wiki it points out that just from seeing him in BC, to WotLK he becomes more apathetic, and then that trend continues into Cata, he's been on a decline since BC.


    And who ever said "Well it's becoming more and more obvious as the patches go by".. I'm sure Blizz assumes we have to dislike him to kill him in a raid, much like blizzard assumed my Panda hated Varian because he was Alliance in that whole quest chain where they showed my "true hatred". I didn't even know I didn't like the guy, but Blizz made sure I had some inkling of dislike.

    I'd still rather see Garrosh fall in under his own mental weight though, not because that's "easy way out" for some people, but because it's more believable to me from his own actions spanning BC to now.
    Exactly. Garrosh's decline has been shown throughout BC to now, just that it wasn't shown clear enough.

    Think about it, his expac timeline is as follows.

    BC: A miserable wretch who hates his bloodline. Despite this, he still has his fathers recklessness and brutality, just that it is dormant. He lives in DESPAIR, FEARS and HATES what he thinks he will become, and DOUBTS his ability as a leader. This changes when Thrall simply tells him how awesome Grom was a nd that Garrosh should embrace his families history, without warning him about Groms mistakes and how reckless andn dangerous he could be. Garrosh now thinks his father is the shit, and now DOUBTS he can ever become like him.

    WotLK: Garrosh grows to HATE the alliance instead, and becomes ANGRY at both the Alliance and the state of the Horde. His recklessness is shown when he send ls the player on a one man mission that should have required an elite team.

    Cata: Garrosh, completely inexperienced, is given the title of Warchief simply because of his last name. He becomes increasinly VIOLENT with the powers he was given, and only grows to despise the Alliance more.

    MoP: Despite all his campaigns in Cata, the Alliance hasn't broken, only gotten stronger. Garrosh has become increasingly desperate and VIOLENT. He now DOUBTS his abilities to lead, FEARS an uprising, grows more ANGERED and HATRED against the Alliance and non-orc horde races. Its a matter of time before he realizes he will not win this war and achieve the the legacy is father had, and slips into DESPAIR.
    Last edited by babo7000; 2013-02-09 at 05:45 PM.

  10. #50
    He is no more fanatically devoted to his cause of Horde supremecy than the Scarlet Crusade and their mantra of "if it isn't human, it dies" is.

    I hope for once, he isn't possessed or has some more powerful being controlling him. Just once it would be nice to have a villian who really does believe that what he is doing is right.



    Anyone played Baldur's Gate II? The antagonist in that game is the perfect example, he does all manner of horrible things in his cause, but is acting for himself.
    My name is Cernunnos, I will love you like no other, I have died a thousand deaths, each time I died I thought of you.

  11. #51
    The problem was that the leaders of the Hord and alliance was nobility on two legs Thrall and Bolvar Fordragon, and the armies under them was also noble, and they was more united agents a common foe then fighting each each other, world of wacraft was slowly become world of noblecraft.

    Blizzard cant "dishonor" the noble armies (the player) Remember you are the hero/champion, so Blizzard did give the armies new "dishonorable" crazy? leaders as Varian Wrynn and Garrosh Hellscream who can beat the war drum. That give a domino impact, now you can have pure noble Jaina go rampage.....

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by evokanu View Post
    I believe he is possessed, would not surprise me if there is a plot twist later on and garrosh is not the final boss.
    in beta they told that it wasn't a posession.

  13. #53
    He has weak mental fortitude and is influenced by anything that gets his emotions high.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Salandrin View Post
    The irony of what you said comes in the fact that Garrosh executed Krom'gar for his bombing, and threatened Sylvanas for using the New Plague, yet he has no qualms of doing things worse than either of those now.
    As an orc RPer, this is what bothers me. I could easily see Garrosh becoming power-drunk and megalomaniac as his military successes accumulated, it was a nice way to show that the Warchief position is not suited for just anyone, etc.., but since the bombing of Theramore (instead of a "regular" military campaign) and the Bell, Garrosh's actions echoes with both Krom'gar and Sylvanas', the very same actione he condemned a few months ago. This will be why we'll raise against him, I guess.

    I wonder what's next in store for him... Using demons and fel magic, maybe, so he echoes with his father's mistakes ? Ragefire Chasm sure seem to direct us this way.

  15. #55
    Garrosh could have been a character that I love to hate. He seemed to be headed that way during Lich King and Cataclysm when he had this "We are the Horde and we do what we must to ensure our prosperity. Oh, and screw you Alliance!" way of thinking.

    Now? I just see him as a big meat bag. If he's not possessed now, he will end up being possessed. Just look how Blizzard's villains usually end up.

  16. #56
    He saw his people downtrodden and weak, living in caves, barely able to scratch out a living in the desert. He wants a better life for them.
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    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
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  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    The guys is not crazy or "corrupted". He is just an Orc supremacist. He talks down towards the other races.
    Not only that he is not really honorable. He slaughtered innocents on a wrecked ship after the cataclysm threw the ship into horde waters, he skinned NEs for resources in violation of a treaty, his in bed with the Grimtotem. Yes he feels what he is doing is correct andd he is trying to be his own person not his daddy's son who screwed the orcs over in his own power blood lust.

    It is classic foreshadowing. Garrosh is following in his fathers footsteps but this time we will put a stop to it. I also agree he will not die. I still feel it will be Jaina or Varian, possible even Anduin.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-09 at 08:23 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by SyrahGrunt View Post
    As an orc RPer, this is what bothers me. I could easily see Garrosh becoming power-drunk and megalomaniac as his military successes accumulated, it was a nice way to show that the Warchief position is not suited for just anyone, etc.., but since the bombing of Theramore (instead of a "regular" military campaign) and the Bell, Garrosh's actions echoes with both Krom'gar and Sylvanas', the very same actione he condemned a few months ago. This will be why we'll raise against him, I guess.

    I wonder what's next in store for him... Using demons and fel magic, maybe, so he echoes with his father's mistakes ? Ragefire Chasm sure seem to direct us this way.
    He did not want the lime light. He did not really want to be Warchief. He just wanted to fight. He had no desire to lead or be bothered with nor wanted to learn the politics of leading. Thrall figured with Carine by his side he could be mentored and making good decisions. We saw ho that one played out. He only knows war, and that is how he will lead. Being blood thirsty for a fight and holding all the power can corrupt over night mix in the Sha's presence feeding into his rage only made things worse.

    Sure they could have made him this man who became humbled by holding the responsibility of the horde but that would have been pretty boring. I like the story arc and look forward to a new Horde leader.

  18. #58
    Mechagnome kojinshugi's Avatar
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    When was he ever a decent Warchief? His very reign began with the murder of Cairne and ejecting half the Horde from Orgrimmar. Even in Wrath he was constantly raging against the Alliance for no discernible reason.

    He is, as someone else put it earlier, an orc supremacist. His rage at the Alliance only makes sense because orcs had been subservient to the Alliance, nevermind that it was after losing a bloody and cruel war of aggression, and the Alliance showed incredible mercy not wiping out the green-skinned monsters entirely.
    When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons! What am I supposed to do with these?! Demand to see life's manager! Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons! Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! With the lemons! I'm gonna get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!

  19. #59
    I am Murloc! Airwaves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kojinshugi View Post
    When was he ever a decent Warchief? His very reign began with the murder of Cairne and ejecting half the Horde from Orgrimmar. Even in Wrath he was constantly raging against the Alliance for no discernible reason.

    He is, as someone else put it earlier, an orc supremacist. His rage at the Alliance only makes sense because orcs had been subservient to the Alliance, nevermind that it was after losing a bloody and cruel war of aggression, and the Alliance showed incredible mercy not wiping out the green-skinned monsters entirely.
    Wrong. I am not a hellscream fan but Cairne got himself killed by drawing a conclusion that it was hellscream that killed the Druid meeting in Ashenvale when in fact it wa the twilights hammer. So it was Cairnes hot head that got himself killed before he worked out what really happened.

    Have to agree with the 2nd part but. The Orcs on Azeroth are only alive because of arthes's fathers kindness.
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  20. #60
    he is being controlled by SHA of power hungry evilness or something

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