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  1. #281
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faldric View Post
    And Dwarf Priests got fear ward.
    And shamans had poison cleansing totems for Viscidous.

  2. #282
    Quote Originally Posted by Cookie View Post
    Cute. Yes it will be the best horde race for every single dps class after 5.2, which is the issue at hand.
    First of all, Trolls can't roll every class.

    Second, now they won't. Unless you want to change race for every fight.

  3. #283
    Quote Originally Posted by LazarusLong View Post
    First of all, Trolls can't roll every class.

    Second, now they won't. Unless you want to change race for every fight.
    They can play 22/23 dps specs in the game and for all those specs it'll be by far the best race in 5.2 raids.

    If you don't want to change race every fight they will be the strongest race, by far. Having a ~(2-)5% advantage on 5/13 bosses and (possibly, assuming that you're a spec were berserking is weak) is well worth a 0-0,2% disadvantage on the other fights.

  4. #284
    Quote Originally Posted by Cookie View Post
    They can play 22/23 dps specs in the game and for all those specs it'll be by far the best race in 5.2 raids.

    If you don't want to change race every fight they will be the strongest race, by far. Having a ~(2-)5% advantage on 5/13 bosses and (possibly, assuming that you're a spec were berserking is weak) is well worth a 0-0,2% disadvantage on the other fights.

    It's not, because hardest bosses aren't beasts.

    I'm pretty sure like 90% of people who whine here about racial could easily improve their DPS by 5% by playing their class proper way.

  5. #285
    haha, did not see this much alliance worry when they had Dwarf Priests with Fear Ward on fights with fears.. Onyxia, Nefarian, Magmadar, etc.... It's a minor increase on 3 (maybe 4) bosses... geez, cry much?

    How about we remove any sense of 'uniqueness' to every class, and just make them all the same. geez.

  6. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by LazarusLong View Post
    It's not, because hardest bosses aren't beasts.
    1.) We have no clue regarding the difficulty of the bosses at heroic right now (and said bosses were not the easiest during normal mode testing).

    2.) Even just making the five easiest bosses (which I very much doubt will be the case) go down 5% quicker is massive. At least I've never or very rarely oneshot heroic bosses during progress and this racial will obviously make these bosses way easier, this results in more time to work on the harder bosses is worth way more than a 0-0,2% damage increase that other racials could give (for some classes, for a few troll is already the best class even without beastslaying).

    I'm pretty sure like 90% of people who whine here about racial could easily improve their DPS by 5% by playing their class proper way.
    And how does that justify that you basically pay 25$ to get a 5% damage increase? How does that change the fact that every other race will be outright inferior for every class? Why should two equally bad (or good) players have a 5% difference in damage purely based on the race they chose at the selection screen (or if they are willing to pay 25$ or not)? How does the game improve by having everyone play the same race, purely because it's stronger?

    How about we remove any sense of 'uniqueness' to every class, and just make them all the same. geez.
    Most players think that there are ways to make races and classes different without making one class outright stronger/overpowered, maybe based on how the skills function, what utility they bring and so on? Do you also feel like mages need to deal 100k dps more than everyone else, just to ensure that they are different from other classes or could this possibly be arranged in a different way, for example we could give them different skills?!
    Last edited by Cookie; 2013-02-14 at 05:12 PM.

  7. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by LazarusLong View Post
    I'm pretty sure like 90% of people who whine here about racial could easily improve their DPS by 5% by playing their class proper way.

    Pretty much this.

  8. #288
    Quote Originally Posted by Gromnak View Post
    Pretty much this.
    And I'm pretty sure that after improving their gameplay, they will do another +5% after changing to troll. Also, are people really talking about balance on vanilla as an excuse? PvE balance on vanilla.... hahaha.. HAHAHAHAHAHHA

  9. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by Gromnak View Post
    Pretty much this.
    See, the point is that they don't have to if they're a troll on one of those fights.

  10. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by MordorFires View Post
    I'd like it to happen something along these lines....

    Entire guild race changes to trolls to get Realm Firsts.

    Blizzard puts in 7 day delay period on race changes.

    lolololol
    edit* trollolololol

  11. #291
    Quote Originally Posted by Cookie View Post
    1.) We have no clue regarding the difficulty of the bosses at heroic right now (and said bosses were not the easiest during normal mode testing).

    2.) Even just making the five easiest bosses (which I very much doubt will be the case) go down 5% quicker is massive. At least I've never or very rarely oneshot heroic bosses during progress and this racial will obviously make these bosses way easier, this results in more time to work on the harder bosses is worth way more than a 0-0,2% damage increase that other racials could give (for some classes, for a few troll is already the best class even without beastslaying).



    And how does that justify that you basically pay 25$ to get a 5% damage increase? How does that change the fact that every other race will be outright inferior for every class? Why should two equally bad (or good) players have a 5% difference in damage purely based on the race they chose at the selection screen (or if they are willing to pay 25$ or not)? How does the game improve by having everyone play the same race, purely because it's stronger?



    Most players think that there are ways to make races and classes different without making one class outright stronger/overpowered, maybe based on how the skills function, what utility they bring and so on? Do you also feel like mages need to deal 100k dps more than everyone else, just to ensure that they are different from other classes or could this possibly be arranged in a different way, for example we could give them different skills?!
    Most players are retarded then -.-
    lets change how skills function...obviously whichever one performs the best will be OP
    ok...lets make them them bring different utility..again...one utility will be better then others for certain fights

    the absolute only way there are no advantages are to have 0 racials...which would be extremely bland

  12. #292
    At the end of the day it's still going to be the same handful of guilds capable of competing for world first anyway.

  13. #293
    Quote Originally Posted by S2omegaS2 View Post
    Most players are retarded then -.-
    lets change how skills function...obviously whichever one performs the best will be OP
    ok...lets make them them bring different utility..again...one utility will be better then others for certain fights

    the absolute only way there are no advantages are to have 0 racials...which would be extremely bland
    You can achive about the same thing in many different ways. Classes or races can be stronger or weaker in certain areas but combined give a relatively equal contribution to the raid. Do you think that some classes just should deal more damage than others without any drawbacks and that this would be ok (and if this was the design purpose we'd hardly need any balance changes)? I'm entirely fine with certain classes or races having (relatively small) advantages on different fights/situations, but no class should just be outright stronger in every/the majority of situations, nor should any race. Again, do you feel like mages need to deal more dps than every other class to ensure that they are different?

  14. #294
    Quote Originally Posted by Funkthepunk View Post
    And shamans had poison cleansing totems for Viscidous.
    Thats one boss, but fear was one of the few mechanics blizz had back then and they used it very often. Onyxia, Nefarian, Magmardar......

  15. #295
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandrake View Post
    does anyone else remember how a lot of stuff in wrath of the lich king was undead and paladins had a 100% chance to crit with exorcism? ( still remember lichborne dks and meta locks bitching about it lol )

    not a big deal
    But that was ONE class and still was mediocre dps. Trolls can be everything but paladins This means the strongest dps will be even stronger if they roll troll. Not that i care, i don't do progression stuff at all.

    Trolls are already the best thing for a caster type last i read anything about it. And warlocks and mages are pretty top dps classes atm.

    Pretty sure they will bench the paladin class in these world firsts because of this. But we'll see.

  16. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by LazarusLong View Post
    It's not, because hardest bosses aren't beasts.
    Less time spent on "easier" Bosses -> More time on harder Bosses.

    And secondly, i'd like to know where you already learned which Bosses are pretty easy and which are hard?

    The position of a Boss doesn't always reflect it's difficulty.

    Examples:

    Spirit Kings Hc, those 4 guys were harder than Elegon and Will by far
    Zor'lok Hc, Tay'ak and Garalon are pretty easy compared to this guy
    Majordomo Staghelm, aside from the broken Dps requirements in 25 Hc this Boss was a joke
    Trial of the Grand Crusader, Northrend Beasts were harder than Lord Jaraxxus and Faction Champions
    Ulduar, General Vezax is easy for a penultimate Boss


    Quote Originally Posted by Faldric View Post
    Thats one boss, but fear was one of the few mechanics blizz had back then and they used it very often. Onyxia, Nefarian, Magmardar......
    Nature Resistance without Dps loss (compared to Hunter), Insane Melee Dps Support, Mana Tide, Tremor.


    Fear Ward was just wanted because most Tanks were too dumb for Stance Dance and Fear Ward did their job for them.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2013-02-15 at 02:49 PM.
    Too often, we are mistaken for druidic types. perhaps that's true for some shaman, but do not let yourself be plagued by the ignorant belief that we are always peaceful.
    Nothing about what I do is harmonious. I command the elements to my will. There is nothing offered in return. I would have it no other way.


    Never assume an ogre's stupid, that's when they'll get you.

  17. #297
    Epic! Valanna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faldric View Post
    Thats one boss, but fear was one of the few mechanics blizz had back then and they used it very often. Onyxia, Nefarian, Magmardar......
    Tremor Totem would like a word. Fear Ward wasn't anything special at all. It was merely a crappy light version of shamans' hardcounter. The only advantage of fear ward was that it prevented fear, instead of dispelling it in pulses 2 seconds in between.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Trolling will result in the loss of your forum posting privileges, and the removal of your genitals with my teeth while I hum Oasis songs.

  18. #298
    I would get a laugh if every world first was achieved by a guild full/mostly full of trolls (at least for dps/tanks). Besides, it would be a true old school Horde raid...no paladins. :P

    They've proven they see no sacred cows, and iirc, trolls have had this racial since day 1. It's basically been a laughing stock...until now. Orcs have had Command since day 1, and it got nerfed going into this expansion (from 5% to 2%). Sure, it didn't affect every class available to orcs, but it affects every encounter for those classes it does affect.

  19. #299
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazgrel View Post
    Orcs have had Command since day 1, and it got nerfed going into this expansion (from 5% to 2%).
    You're trying to compare a flat DPS boost across the board, to one that's to a minimal number of bosses ever?

  20. #300
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandrake View Post
    does anyone else remember how a lot of stuff in wrath of the lich king was undead and paladins had a 100% chance to crit with exorcism? ( still remember lichborne dks and meta locks bitching about it lol )

    not a big deal
    this is an incredibly stupid comparison.

    in wotlk, naxx had tons of undeads and paladins were balanced around it. they got a buff to stay competitive in ulduar. balance tweaks continued to happen throughout the xpac.

    secondly, auto-crit exo wasn't nearly worth 5% overall dps.

    thirdly, you can only bring so many paladins. you can bring a shit-ton of trolls.

    fourth, horde and alliance both have paladins.

    i'm not sure how many beast bosses there are in the upcoming tier. if it's more than 2, or if the roadblock heroic bosses are beasts, then guilds will faction change. that sucks.

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