1. #1

    Heroic Lei Shi 10 man - Help Please!

    At this point we're around 40 wipes on Lei Shi and feels like we're making backwards progress. We've tried a 2 person rotation with lock stacking to 20 and hunter around 10. Then tried 3 person rotation stacking to 12-14 and then resetting, but our healers couldn't keep up with the damage. Now we've heard of a 3 tank strat having the Blood DK go to 20 stacks and the lock getting around 10.

    You guys helped me get our Heroic Garalon kill and am hoping you can help us once again. We just lost our rogue and so our roster is going to need to adjust.

    Here is our roster:

    TANKS
    - Blood DK
    - BM Monk

    HEALERS
    - Disc Priest (Atonement)
    - Holy Paladin
    - Resto Druid

    DPS
    - Arms Warrior (w/Tank spec)
    - BM Hunter
    - Affliction Lock (w/Destro spec)
    - Affliction Lock
    - Ele Shammy

    BACKUPS
    - WW/MW Monk (486 ilvl)
    - Ele Shammy (496 ilvl)

    WoL Link: www DOT worldoflogs DOT com/guilds/185307/
    I can't post links yet :/
    Last edited by ruberduckie; 2013-02-10 at 02:55 AM.

  2. #2
    We just killed Lei Shi today and what pushed us over the top was having 3 tanks, our monk was stacking to 20 ASAP while I was debuffing boss as much as possible.

    When he got 15+ he just tried to debuff the boss as much as possible while running out to refresh. During the adds he simply taunted one and we DPSed that one, that way it always had max stacks.

    When our monk reached 15+ I dropped my stacks so it was only one person taking damage from the debuff and with him being a tank and 3 healers it was no problem.
    Tenser @ EU-Auchindoun
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  3. #3
    The Lightbringer Danishpsycho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruberduckie View Post
    At this point we're around 40 wipes on Lei Shi and feels like we're making backwards progress. We've tried a 2 person rotation with lock stacking to 20 and hunter around 10. Then tried 3 person rotation stacking to 12-14 and then resetting, but our healers couldn't keep up with the damage. Now we've heard of a 3 tank strat having the Blood DK go to 20 stacks and the lock getting around 10.

    You guys helped me get our Heroic Garalon kill and am hoping you can help us once again. We just lost our rogue and so our roster is going to need to adjust.

    Here is our roster:

    TANKS
    - Blood DK
    - BM Monk

    HEALERS
    - Disc Priest (Atonement)
    - Holy Paladin
    - Resto Druid

    DPS
    - Arms Warrior (w/Tank spec)
    - BM Hunter
    - Affliction Lock (w/Destro spec)
    - Affliction Lock
    - Ele Shammy

    BACKUPS
    - WW/MW Monk (486 ilvl)
    - Ele Shammy (496 ilvl)

    WoL Link: www.worldoflogs.com/guilds/185307/
    I can't post links yet :/
    Here's your link.

    My own guild has always 2 tanked it, though at times it can get a bit rough and even though we have the boss of farm, we still lose ppl to random stuff once in a while.

    I had a short glance at your logs and your damage and healing seems okay. If you're not wiping to adds (lack of cc) and if you're not wiping due to tank death, you need to make sure, that the 2 ppl taking stacks survive.

    1. Are you making use of Demonic Gateway, so that the 2 ppl on stack duty can get in and out fast?
    2. Are the 2 persons on stack duty communicating to the healers, when they reach a high amount of stacks and therefore needs extra healing or maybe even an external CD?
    3. In your latest log on the longest attempt (around 5 mins) it looks like you're dying during Get Away. Does this happen often? During Get Away, your healers need to have a CD order.

    If none of the above things helps, then maybe it is a good idea to try with an extra tank. But from experience (although I'm a tank and don't do stacks), it seems more like communication between the 2 persons on stack duty. They need to communicate and they need to time their stacks, when to drop and refresh and when to call for help (healing wise).

    In this video you can clearly see, how many stacks our 2 raiders take and you can hear how they communicate. You can also see our positioning and how they use the Demonic Gateway.

    http://www.wowprogress.com/video/111...estoration-pov

    Good luck

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Wablakin View Post
    We just killed Lei Shi today and what pushed us over the top was having 3 tanks, our monk was stacking to 20 ASAP while I was debuffing boss as much as possible.

    When he got 15+ he just tried to debuff the boss as much as possible while running out to refresh. During the adds he simply taunted one and we DPSed that one, that way it always had max stacks.

    When our monk reached 15+ I dropped my stacks so it was only one person taking damage from the debuff and with him being a tank and 3 healers it was no problem.
    Thank you both for taking the time to respond! We are attempting Heroic Lei Shi tonight and are going to give the 3 tank strat a go. However I'm mostly concerned about having enough DPS to meet berserk.

    Wabalikan do you guys have logs from your kill? I'd be very interested to look over them.

    Either way I'll post back after tonight and let you know how it goes.

  5. #5
    As to your healing issue I'll give your pally and druid some advice. Don't try to chase the meters on this fight.

    Disc atonement on this fight is ridiculous. Let it carry your group. With your resto druid keeping up bloom and rejuv on the tanks and the holypal doing most of the healing on the stackers both can save the majority of their mana for the high damage phases. I ranked with like 55k hps on our first kill and since then I haven't been fighting the disc priest and using wrath and mf to add what dps I can and our kills have been much smoother for it. We were doing 3 dps stacking to 15 with no real problems. Though we had a resto shammy to make the getaways very easy. First was shammy shammy Cds the 2nd was spirit walkers tranq and aura mastery. I saved my tree for the more intense protect phases.

    I would ask in your previous 40 attempts are you wiping on the add phase?

    I would advise your druid to pick up displacer beast for this fight because he is probably the most likely to pick up aggro on any loose protectors and I've found that the one button get away is much better than typhoon or any of the other options in getting away. I almost serve as an offtank for the loose adds and knowing they are gunning for me makes it easy to avoid them. I take Mighty bash and typhoon to make sure I won't get hit usually they are 2hit deaths but you can never be too careful.

    In the end this fight is all about control. If you loose control in the add phase your tanks or healers die. If your melee makes a mistake one of them gets instagibed.

  6. #6
    I heard of a strat where you could use a resto druid for the stacks as a 3rd person. We didn't have one so we didn't do it.

    However healing has not really been an issue on this fight, at some point is was CC on add phases that was the issue, we have a shaman and warlock doing stacks and it worked just well. I can't tell you exactly how much stack they used since they are in their own bind talking together when they are doing stacks..
    Karuzo, mistweaver monk | Macphisto, discipline priest
    <Razzia>, US-Arthas | @Spotnick

  7. #7
    We unfortunately did not kill Lei Shi. We got her to 20% with the adds dead but tanks were dead at that point. Here's our logs for the night:

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-vhlzmkrqtl1q1srv/

  8. #8
    from my experience, there's three things you need to watch for:
    - add control. with your setup that should be pretty simple. just make sure that people realize its an additional add on the 40% and 20% protect. use temporary CC when they spawn, stuns, aoe fears (preferrably glyphed), but the amount of CC you have is ridiculous. banish, banish, fear, fear, elemental shackles, wyvern sting, trap. ideally make sure that the banishs and shackles are used close to the boss so that random splash aoe doesn't break CC.
    - always have someone with at least 10s, ideally more, on his debuffs on the boss when a special is possible. the only one that really matters is 'get away', but for that the boss must be debuffed from the very first second. during said get away, use a healing CD, you got tranq and the elemental shaman healing thing. make sure only one is used per get away so you have one for every one (can get unlucky, but mostly that should work out).
    - if you use 3 people stacking up the debuff, make sure they watch each others stacks. you don't want two or even three people on 10+ stacks when a protect happens. that will overload your healers. assign one healer to the guys stacking up the debuff and the other 2 to the tanks during the protect. and make sure if a tank has more then 4-5 debuffs, a cooldown is used. you got plenty available.

    edit: while affliction is certainly the best warlock spec overall, I'd consider asking at least one of your warlocks go demo. overall dps should not be a problem and dps really matters during get away and protect. a demo warlock can jump in and out of meta to make sure to have 800+ demonic power whenever a special can come up and provide a lot of burst dps for these.
    Last edited by kaib; 2013-02-11 at 08:47 AM.

  9. #9
    I am our Ele shaman for the guild in topic. Tonight's attempts we did the 3 tank strat and 2 healing. Our Blood DK was stacking to 20 while our Arms warrior went Protection. Our main issues for the majority of the fight was mainly due to tank death's, mostly during add phases. Our best attempt with our Disc Priest smite spamming we got the boss to 20% with around ~1:05 on enrage. And on our best attempt with our priest normal healing we got to 20% but we hit enrage. Our healers are also just run dry on mana at around ~35% and thats when things just start going down hill on all attempts. Is 3 tanking and 3 healing viable w/ the Disc priest smite spamming entirely?

  10. #10
    The Lightbringer Danishpsycho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zykenwolf View Post
    I am our Ele shaman for the guild in topic. Tonight's attempts we did the 3 tank strat and 2 healing. Our Blood DK was stacking to 20 while our Arms warrior went Protection. Our main issues for the majority of the fight was mainly due to tank death's, mostly during add phases. Our best attempt with our Disc Priest smite spamming we got the boss to 20% with around ~1:05 on enrage. And on our best attempt with our priest normal healing we got to 20% but we hit enrage. Our healers are also just run dry on mana at around ~35% and thats when things just start going down hill on all attempts. Is 3 tanking and 3 healing viable w/ the Disc priest smite spamming entirely?
    I don't think you'll make it with 3 tanks and 3 healers tbh. We 2 tank and 3 heal and we don't always use a Disc Priest to aid in dps. If we fuck up the stacks more than once, we get very close to enrage. And that's with dps close to BiS.

    If your healers are running out of mana, there could be several reasons.

    1. They don't have enough Spirit or they are healing wrong.
    2. People who aren't supposed to take stacks get too close to the 2 persons taking stacks=more damage that could and should be avoided.
    3. Get Away phases take too long.

    About tanks dying in the Protector phase: Tank A is on the boss and tank B has 5 secs left of his debuff, when the adds spawn. Tank A taunts the Skull and tank B taunts the boss with like 1 sec left of his debuff.

    Tank A now moves the add to the boss and the second Tank A's debuff runs out, he taunts the boss. Tank B will be taking a lot of damage and needs to have CD's up for this. Tank B taunts the add from Tank A and move to the side of Tank A to avoid the boss spraying on the melee and himself.

    Worst case scenario is when you get a Protectors phase and Tank A is tanking the boss, while tank B still has 10 secs remaining of the debuff. In this case, tank A has to keep tanking the boss and tank B has to be very fast about picking up the add and taunt the boss. Even if the add isn't close to the boss, tank B HAS to taunt the boss, the second his debuff is off. Then Tank A can taunt the add and move it.

    About controlling the adds:

    Only your RL should be marking the adds. Go to DBM and find Lei Shi. At the very bottom there's an option to automatically mark the adds. Everyone but the RL needs to click this off, so that you don't risk the marks changing. Put up markers in each corner and assign ppl to cc.

    Worst case scenario you get 3 adds on top of the boss. In this case, a Lock needs to fear them. Mage be ready with RoF and Paladin with stun. This to make sure, that the adds don't go apeshit on a random raid member. If need be, a tank needs to taunt a lose add - even if it's supposed to be cc'd. Make sure that nobody cleaves - including your tanks.

    You can decide to do either of these 2 things:

    1. ALWAYS kill the skull, regardless of its position and regardless if it's cc'd.
    2. ALWAYS kill the add, that the tank targets first.

    We use option 1, although we had a discussion about this. On rare occasions, we swap to another add than skull. This happens, if;

    1. Skull is in a far corner and cc'd.
    2. Skull is closer but cc'd and another add is lose and close.

    In these two cases the RL or the tank will call out what add to kill.

    This is our log from yesterday on Lei Shi. You can check our damage and healing done.

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-q9...=11186&e=11628

    Hope it helps.
    Last edited by Danishpsycho; 2013-02-11 at 10:08 AM.

  11. #11
    fairly certain you don't want to 2 heal, no matter if you use range dps or a 3rd tank to stack up. the idea behind the 3rd tank is that you have a 20+ stack debuff on the boss most of the time, plus a 20 stack debuff for the getaways and protects. however I think that's mostly used in 25 men anyway, where you hardly lose anything from swapping a dps to a tank.

  12. #12
    Im looking at your latest posted logs and on almost every single attempt the tanks die first. And not due to standing outside taking stacks or due to the adds but to Spray. Is it perhaps so that when the stacker tries to debuff the boss the tanks also get the debuff due to positioning? I realise that this won't help with enrage issues but it's something to look into to make everything go smoother.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by ruberduckie View Post
    Thank you both for taking the time to respond! We are attempting Heroic Lei Shi tonight and are going to give the 3 tank strat a go. However I'm mostly concerned about having enough DPS to meet berserk.

    Wabalikan do you guys have logs from your kill? I'd be very interested to look over them.

    Either way I'll post back after tonight and let you know how it goes.
    3 tanks, 3 healers log:
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=8514&e=8914
    Tenser @ EU-Auchindoun
    Officer of <WTFlux> 2-day-weekend-raiding-guild, T14: 8/16HC, T15: 2/13H
    Warlock POV - streaming raids on sat/sun 10am-2pm GMT+1

  14. #14
    An update. We killed Lei Shi. Our RL forget to log it of course but we did it with 3 tanks and 2.5 heals. Disc priest smite spammed.

  15. #15
    Ya unfortunately I forgot to log our kill, dumb. :/ BUT I just wanted to add the 3 tank and 2.5 healer strat worked great for us. We had about 12 seconds left on berserk and about 5% left to go when Lei Shi cast HIDE...we got the kill with only about half the team dead. Definitely a fun kill.

    Once again thank you everybody for your responses they helped a lot!

    Now onto Vizier and then Amber Shaper or Protectors??? Hmm?

  16. #16
    The Lightbringer Danishpsycho's Avatar
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    Zorlok isn't too hard, if your raiders know how to dance. Amber Shaper is again about your raiders awareness when it comes to the Construct. Protectors becomes much easier with a Prot Paladin tanking due to interrupts. We always go with Prot Pala and 3 melee on this fight, just cause interrupts or the lack of it makes the whole difference. Imo, if you have the setup for Protectors, it's fairly easy.

  17. #17
    Looks, like I am too late, but we have used a 20 stack tactic with me as warlock for the stacks.
    Fel Armor increases healing taken, Soul Link for an increased HP Pool and a good amount of healing from Soul Leech and Corruption Glyph. That was as Demo, because of better movement then Affli during Get Away!.

    For further progress I would advice Zorlok, if you have no problems with a bit of movement. The last phase requires either a creative tactic or good awareness of your raid.
    In my signature is a link to my youtube channel, where you can find the video of our Zorlok kill (or any other we have killed), if you are interested in some tactics.
    My Youtube Channel - latest videos: Garrosh Hellscream 10 hc (Destro PoV) (Ele PoV) (Prot Warri PoV) (Mage PoV) (Multi PoV)
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    - currently playing more Elder Scrolls than WoW

  18. #18
    Just thought I'd update this and again thank you guys for your help. We killed Heroic Vizier last night on our 24th attempt. I found the fight to be very easy and quite fun.

    Now I'm still trying to decide between Amber Shaper and Protectors. Unfortunately we currently only have 1 melee. But our Ele shaman and both warlocks have interrupts....not sure how practical ranged interrupts are tho on protectors.

  19. #19
    I'd suggest Amber Shaper with some kind of P1 burn so you don't have to alternate stacking in P2. Really not that hard that way.

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