Weight loss Help, I'm at a loss :(

[errosync]

Butter is good, bread is not.

Bread is a quick means to get solid carbs and simple sugars, and is cheap. The problem is that people at bread covered in cheese with bacon bits and sour cream in the volume of a loaf per day and then wonder why they're gaining weight. Bread AND butter are fine, just like everything else (including candy and alcohol). Just don't be an idiot and do ten shots a day or eat a bag of M&Ms as part of your regular diet; learn how to keep a regimen and learn how to eat in moderation. If you can't manage that, you're never going to lose weight.

[mercutiouk]

If you are DEFINITELY training hard (and I mean lifting too) then it's pretty likely the fats going to muscle aka "re-composition".

The basic plan for FAT loss though is about as easy to work from as you like. No counting, charts, pills, potions etc just very simply:

1) 2 Litres of water per day
2) Enough protein daily (this is sposed to be about 1 gram per lean lb of body mass if I remember. So long as you are getting plenty though...)
3) Lift 3 times a week
4) Reduce intake (start highish and just keep cutting back till you spot the weight going down)

That's it.
If you want to add fractionally to it (and these things make no difference to success/failure, they can just make life easier as you go) then consider a protein supplement if you really struggle to get through 150g of protein a day (eggs have about 6g of protein - vs other sources they're a good source and have a lot of other good things in them but there's still a few lingering worries about cholesterol in the yolk). I'd also suggest if you are going to take ANYTHING as a supplement then take fish oil. Omega 3 fatty acids help a LOT in breaking down stored fat.

Cardio obviously helps too, it gives your respiratory system a much better workout than lifting does which has a big say in how fit/healthy you are. If you are doing cardio do it AFTER you lift. Lifting produces various hormones etc that has the body start tapping the fat cells, if you do the cardio after you are then causing stored fat to be used aggressively to provide energy. I tend to think of it as lifting tenderises the fat cells, cardio is then better able to burn them. Cardio is only needed to control the calorie balance though. If you can control the diet well enough and just want to LOOK healthier (not suggesting this as a good idea but..) it's not needed. You can just lift and get "in shape".

Stay away (generally) from other gym supplements, there's no real need. I've used a few "fat cutting" type things before and they work but... not massively more so than just working out a bit more. You'd get a similar effect from a small, strong coffee and a couple of squares of dark chocolate before a workout, they're just stimulants. Coffee de-hydrates though, not so good.

Personally I'm still quite a big guy, I'm carrying a bit more fat than I'd like but I'm to a point now from trying a few bits and working out different ways to know what I need to do. Been having a vague go at it again since the new year and down about 6kg which is a fairly easy, decent level of loss to maintain.

If you want it to be long term you need to see it as a lifestyle change rather than "going on a diet". Walk more, buy a few weights you can use in a bit of a workout at home. Diet wise you sound to be going at it pretty well, make sure the other side works ok too.

Here's a decent "stripped down" starting guide:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...9247741&page=1

You don't have to be wanting to DO bodybuilding, it's the same idea though. Maintain protein + lift then either increase calories to get bigger or reduce calories to ditch fat.

Only thing I'd change from the above (and it's purely personal) is that I prefer to do a full body weights workout rather than splits. I'm purely interested in ditching fat though and can sort out balancing things out when I'm done Activating each muscle group IMO gives better results than stressing 2/3 groups like you would with splits.

[Zaios]

Keto diets are extremely effective. It essentially eliminates your body's need for stimulating insulin, and may I add that insulin is THE ONLY fat storing hormone; therefore, restrict anything that stimulates insulin. Insulin also blocks a hormone called leptin; this hormone tells your brain that you're full.

Carbohydrate stimulates insulin, so restrict those. Brown rice and whole wheat bread are not good options. A good keto diet is about 65-80% calories from fat (mostly saturated); body weight multiplied by 0.7, 0.8, or 0.9 for a minimum/maximum amount of grams of protein, and fewer than 50 carbohydrates per day to start off with.

Also, a good book to read would be The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living

Good luck.

[Bartuck]

http://4chanfit.wikia.com/wiki/Harsh's_Worksheet_(WIP)

Everything you need to know compiled into one wiki post. Absolutely everything said above are just fragments of those things necessary to know.

[Beavis]

http://4chanfit.wikia.com/wiki/Harsh's_Worksheet_(WIP)

Everything you need to know compiled into one wiki post. Absolutely everything said above are just fragments of those things necessary to know.

This FAQ is great. It contains all of /fit/'s knowledge with none of the feels, manlets, or latent homoeroticism.

Anyway, apropos of that, I would recommend that you gtfo here and find a dedicated health or lifting forum. While this site is home to a handful of really really helpful posters, they drowning in a sea of people who have no idea what they're talking about. If you don't already have a good bullshit detector, their advice can easily be lost.

EDIT: continuing on that line of thinking, develop a good bullshit detector. There is a shocking amount of conflicting, misguided, and just flat out wrong information floating around regarding fitness in general and weight loss in particular. In this thread alone we've already seen low-carb and it's paleo cousin, the macro fitting approach, the thermodynamic theory of weight loss, and the hormonal perspective. The unfortunate truth is that the science of nutrition and weight is still surprisingly poorly understood, even at the basic research level.

Cases in point:
-Researchers recently found that African hunter-gatherers burn about as many calories per day as sedentary Westerners despite obviously being much more active. That undercuts the conventional wisdom that Westerns have gotten fat because we sit all day.

-Research has consistently shown that exercise in general and cardio in particular is somewhere between inefficient and actively counterproductive for weight loss. So, weight loss gurus, doctors, and even the government have been feeding us unsettled science that may actually be preventing us from getting where we want to go. (It may, however, be massively important to weight loss maintenance, which is even more poorly understood than weight loss.)

-Low-carb advocates have yet to adequately explain why a billion and a half East Asians can get most of their calories from starch (aka white rice) and consistently be the skinniest people in the industrialized world.

So, if you're going to go on this journey, be prepared to read a lot. Take an omnivorous approach to research, but be skeptical and analyze everything to the best of your ability

[Harzaka]

This FAQ is great. It contains all of /fit/'s knowledge with none of the feels, manlets, or latent homoeroticism.

Anyway, apropos of that, I would recommend that you gtfo here and find a dedicated health or lifting forum. While this site is home to a handful of really really helpful posters, they drowning in a sea of people who have no idea what they're talking about. If you don't already have a good bullshit detector, their advice can easily be lost.

What does this have to do with manlets?

[Beavis]

What does this have to do with manlets?

Have you ever been to /fit/?

[sTyLnK]

Everyone is different. For some, the pounds will melt away faster than others. That's the reality. I don't mean to frustrate you even more, but look at it this way. You're eating healthy, you're working out and most importantly you're probably feeling a lot better in doing all those things. Now in terms of feeling better for the weight loss part, it will come, I promise. You just have to continue to keep going. Remember, if it was easy, everyone would be walking around thin and in shape.

[Harzaka]

Have you ever been to /fit/?

No. I dont surf on 4chan

[Ghul]

im gonna start losing weight this year too and my battle plan? eat the same like i do right now, but start doing cardio-excercises to burn more calories. my reasoning for this is, that i pretty much stayed the about the same weight for over 2 years now, so that means if i add one or two hours of cardio each day, im gonna start losing weight. ofc its gonna take a while and im probably only gonna lose half a kilogram each week or so, but burnt fat is not going to come back as fast as "hungered down" fat, so i consider it worth the wait.
my personal choice for cardi is biking, since i have good childhoodmemories from it, i hope thats gonna turn the whole "chore" into something fun.

also something important: "working out" can cause you to gain some weight, since you are building up muscle mass, and muscle's are actually heavier than fat(less body-size but more overall weight), this could also be a reason why you havent lost weight up to now. still, building muscle is a good way to lose weight in the long run, since more muscle's also require more calories, thus you will be able to burn more calories/time while doing your cardio, yay!

thats basically my personal plan, i started building musclemass(slowly, like training once or twice a week) since november last year and im planning to go biking at least every second day(as long as the weather plays along) wich, in theory, should wield better results than it had if i didnt build some muscle.

[Beavis]

No. I dont surf on 4chan

Welp, that's about 75% of the content: feels, manlets, and homoeroticism.

[Xihuitl]

Theres a difference between "hard work" and it being "hard"

yes there is. its not "hard" in that anyone can do it (well most people) it just requires proper dedication and to work hard when training. There is no secret,

[Ghul]

Everyone is different. For some, the pounds will melt away faster than others. That's the reality. I don't mean to frustrate you even more, but look at it this way. You're eating healthy, you're working out and most importantly you're probably feeling a lot better in doing all those things. Now in terms of feeling better for the weight loss part, it will come, I promise. You just have to continue to keep going. Remember, if it was easy, everyone would be walking around thin and in shape.

actually, things being easy isnt a guarantee for people to do it :B
moreso because difficulty can be realtive from person to person and in my personal opinion, losing weight is one of the easy things in life. i simply didnt do it up till now, because im lazy as a piece of dust. im just laying around and making the world a more dirty place ... well i was, because things changed for me last year 8>

[Beavis]

im gonna start losing weight this year too and my battle plan? eat the same like i do right now, but start doing cardio-excercises to burn more calories. my reasoning for this is, that i pretty much stayed the about the same weight for over 2 years now, so that means if i add one or two hours of cardio each day, im gonna start losing weight. ofc its gonna take a while and im probably only gonna lose half a kilogram each week or so, but burnt fat is not going to come back as fast as "hungered down" fat, so i consider it worth the wait.
my personal choice for cardi is biking, since i have good childhoodmemories from it, i hope thats gonna turn the whole "chore" into something fun.

also something important: "working out" can cause you to gain some weight, since you are building up muscle mass, and muscle's are actually heavier than fat(less body-size but more overall weight), this could also be a reason why you havent lost weight up to now. still, building muscle is a good way to lose weight in the long run, since more muscle's also require more calories, thus you will be able to burn more calories/time while doing your cardio, yay!

thats basically my personal plan, i started building musclemass(slowly, like training once or twice a week) since november last year and im planning to go biking at least every second day(as long as the weather plays along) wich, in theory, should wield better results than it had if i didnt build some muscle.

I'd recommend reevaluating your plan. As I mentioned above, cardiovascular exercise has been shown to be somewhere between ineffectual and counterproductive for weight loss.

The truth is that the only way to get fat is to overeat. Nobody ever got fat because they didn't exercise enough. The reverse applies to weight loss. Nobody ever exercised themselves skinny. Not once. If you want to lose body fat, you need to change the way you eat.

[Xihuitl]

I'd recommend reevaluating your plan. As I mentioned above, cardiovascular exercise has been shown to be somewhere between ineffectual and counterproductive for weight loss.

The truth is that the only way to get fat is to overeat. Nobody ever got fat because they didn't exercise enough. The reverse applies to weight loss. Nobody ever exercised themselves skinny. Not once. If you want to lose body fat, you need to change the way you eat.

I'd be careful of sweeping statements.

I went from overweight to normal with no change in diet a few years ago. Just by increaseing my exercise, mainly cardio. I refuse to diet, mainly because I eat a pretty good diet anyway and enjoy food.


Some types of exercise work for some people, and not for others. You have to find what works for you, its becomming acknowledged that people respond with vastly different reactions to different types of excercise.

[Jokerfiend]

Changing what, when, and how you eat is the 90% of weight loss.

I weighted a whopping 450lbs plus. I lost 150 of that in the first year alone. I weight roughly 230 before I decide to lift for big. I've put on roughly 35-40 pounds of muscle in the last 2 years. I'm standing around 280 lbs now @ 13% BF where I didn't hold my weight, like Chest, Back, and Arms. Now my Torso and Legs, I will never recover without surgery. Simply too much excess skin and pesky liner fat.

I'm genetic, nothing else can explain it. I've stunned most trainers with my progress. I eat roughly 4-5k calories a day, roughly 260-280g of protein, around 160g carbs, and 100g of fat.

It's how, when, and why I eat my food that allows me to get muscular. Each person is different. Though some keen advice is right here. You just need to tweak YOUR habits, not other peoples.

This isn't easy, it takes dedication and willpower. Long term goals will bring you to where you want to be. Stay focused and keep it up.

---------- Post added 2013-02-10 at 06:51 PM ----------

actually, things being easy isnt a guarantee for people to do it :B
moreso because difficulty can be realtive from person to person and in my personal opinion, losing weight is one of the easy things in life. i simply didnt do it up till now, because im lazy as a piece of dust. im just laying around and making the world a more dirty place ... well i was, because things changed for me last year 8>

Basically a vagina became your best friend?

In your previous circumstance, getting chicks is second most used reason to lose weight. If it wasn't about health, then vagina has to be it.

[Beavis]

I'd be careful of sweeping statements.

I went from overweight to normal with no change in diet a few years ago. Just by increaseing my exercise, mainly cardio. I refuse to diet, mainly because I eat a pretty good diet anyway and enjoy food.


Some types of exercise work for some people, and not for others. You have to find what works for you, its becomming acknowledged that people respond with vastly different reactions to different types of excercise.

Well, that's great for you, but it doesn't impact what the research says. The science is fairly unambiguous: the vast majority of overweight people either experience no change or an increase in body fat from cardiovascular exercise, even in combination with dieting. If 1 person out of 1000 can lose weight by either exercising or dieting and the other 999 can only lose weight by dieting, what's the better advice?

[bugzilla3]

Health is around 80% diet.

[FatRastafarian]

isnt it bad to skip out on bread and butter? I'm pretty sure theres something in butter that's ONLY in butter, but your body still needs it. I'm not 100% sure, but just wondering.

Forgive me if I'm wrong but isn't paleo practically keto? In the long term, keto and other variations have drastic effects on metabolism.
Yes you can gain muscle on a deficit ... If you have never done this before. On the odd chance, someone with a lot of LBM going on a cut would be extremely lucky to gain size. Seeing as its do difficult it's best to just lift heavy to maintain all the gains you made, but of course you will lose LBM. It's inevitable.

[Lockstatus]

Research has consistently shown that exercise in general and cardio in particular is somewhere between inefficient and actively counterproductive for weight loss. So, weight loss gurus, doctors, and even the government have been feeding us unsettled science that may actually be preventing us from getting where we want to go. (It may, however, be massively important to weight loss maintenance, which is even more poorly understood than weight loss.)

Well, that's great for you, but it doesn't impact what the research says. The science is fairly unambiguous: the vast majority of overweight people either experience no change or an increase in body fat from cardiovascular exercise, even in combination with dieting. If 1 person out of 1000 can lose weight by either exercising or dieting and the other 999 can only lose weight by dieting, what's the better advice?

What?! Maybe I'm misunderstanding you but are you suggesting that cardio is useless/possibly detrimental for losing weight? Gaining/losing weight is SOLEY cals in vs cals out for like 95% of the population (purely made up stat but cals in vs cals out doesn't work equally for those who have thyroid problems, contest preppers and another select few of the general population). If you are in a caloric deficit, you WILL lose weight. It doesn't matter where the caloric deficit comes from, whether it's actually eating less or doing hours of (boring) cardio, if your calories out > calories in, you will lose weight. You can eat donuts and french fries all day(don't do this!) if you want, but if you keep under maintenance consistently the you will lose weight.

Cardio is simply another tool to create that deficit.

If you do cardio, gain weight and complain you gain weight, that's 100% on you not maintaining a deficit, not because cardio = weight gain.

-Research has consistently shown that exercise in general and cardio in particular is somewhere between inefficient and actively counterproductive for weight loss. So, weight loss gurus, doctors, and even the government have been feeding us unsettled science that may actually be preventing us from getting where we want to go. (It may, however, be massively important to weight loss maintenance, which is even more poorly understood than weight loss.)

What research is this?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18025815

-Low-carb advocates have yet to adequately explain why a billion and a half East Asians can get most of their calories from starch (aka white rice) and consistently be the skinniest people in the industrialized world.

Diets operate on the principle of a caloric deficit to lose weight. I'm not sure if you are advocating low-carb diets but emphasizing that not enough information is understood too explain why East Asians are skinny or just against low-carb diets. Regardless people become skinny because they eat at a deficit and remain skinny because they eat at maintenance, not because of the kinds of food they eat. The kinds/source/types of food one eats affects body composition and long-term health, not so much weight.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8561057
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1734671
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8968851