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  1. #1
    Scarab Lord
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    Why do we still have DPS roles in normal dungeons?

    I'm not sure if it's just me being awesome at tanking but I always do 50-60% of all damage done in normal dungeons. It's only in heroics DPSers actually surpass me in damage and DPS, and even then it's only by a minuscule amount. I remember when I used to DPS in dungeons, being top dps or fighting to be was half the fun. But as it is now, it's not even a competition. Is it really necessary for tanks to have the same or higher dps than pure dps classes in dungeons? And more importantly, does tanks DPS capabilities actually ruin the fun for DPS specs?


    Edit: I'm not talking about groups with full ilvl483+ DPSers doing dungeons for shits and giggles. This is more aimed towards doing dungeons/heroics with people who are pre-90 and pre-raidgeared.
    Last edited by Deleted; 2013-02-02 at 11:46 AM. Reason: Removed a bit of the text to avoid confusion. :rolleyes:
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  2. #2
    Herald of the Titans Christan's Avatar
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    dps often surpass you in heroics?
    doing something wrong.

    reason to have dps is 4 tanks wouldn't be getting any vengeance.

    well dps could get higher than you if you are a warrior or paladin.
    i can pull some awesome numbers on my brm, doing that 50% overall in heroics, pretty consistantly and tie dps on bosses, rarely though i get a good dps who ties me on overall and smashes me on bosses (saying they do 100k single target on a boss, while i do 50-80k *depends on boss*)
    on my guardian bear now, that's no longer my main, in crummy gear, i also beat dps by over half the time.
    my pala dk and warrior have yet to be leveled.

    4 tanks though no vengeance 3 of 4 no veng tanks would def do way less damage than dps, though might tie with the bad ones.


    ahh btw, i go off of damage done for bosses and overall, dps is skewed because of people entering combat late, that ele shaman who proc'd 3 lava bursts off 1 spell or w/e can pull 400k dps, but join fight right at last mob...ohh he only did 400k damage done the entire fight also...damage done is a much better counter.
    Last edited by Christan; 2013-02-02 at 11:12 AM.
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  3. #3
    I bet you do not do 50% of damage if you just take the bosses. Dungeons are trash aoe feasts and tanks with veng get the most out of them.

  4. #4
    Titan Nerraw's Avatar
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    Only reason why tanks do so much damage is Vengeance. Good luck getting 4 tanks to do more damage than 3 dps if only one of them is tanking anyway.
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  5. #5
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerraw View Post
    Only reason why tanks do so much damage is Vengeance. Good luck getting 4 tanks to do more damage than 3 dps if only one of them is tanking anyway.
    Not just vengeance, it's one more important thing:
    Most tanks have great AoE-burst!
    That really makes the meters explode in their favour and the mobs die too fast to let it balance out.

  6. #6
    Scarab Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christan View Post
    Snip
    I'm playing protwarrior and they're not halfbad even in ST fights. My Brm is only around level 50 atm, it has no issues doing 50-70% of all damage done in dungeons :P
    Quote Originally Posted by chipmonk View Post
    I bet you do not do 50% of damage if you just take the bosses. Dungeons are trash aoe feasts and tanks with veng get the most out of them.
    I have no issue topping the dps on boss fights in normals. It's usually in heroics people tend to outdo me, barely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerraw View Post
    Only reason why tanks do so much damage is Vengeance. Good luck getting 4 tanks to do more damage than 3 dps if only one of them is tanking anyway.
    You could potentially masspull and clear all trash in matter of minutes. Every tank would be tanking their own pack and get their own vengeance Also, it was mostly me being a smartass, hence me saying "/smartasshatoff" at the end of that text ^^
    Last edited by Deleted; 2013-02-02 at 11:21 AM.
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  7. #7
    Herald of the Titans Bryntrollian's Avatar
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    I haven't played in a couple months but I hardly believe any tank would out dps me on any normal fight
    Last edited by Bryntrollian; 2013-02-02 at 11:49 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    I don't think I know what the acronym "tsg" is. It's not RBG's or Arena, random battlegrounds, or any form of dungeon or raid that I can think of. What does it mean?

  8. #8
    Warchief Voyager's Avatar
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    The dps component of vengeance needs a massive nerf, like 80% reduction. Increase the threat generation component by 500% in exchange.

  9. #9
    The Patient
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    Vengeance is probably (substantially) overtuned for 5-man content, particularly at lower levels. (Vengeance largely seems to be fine everywhere else, though.) My fully-heirloomed 56 warrior tank is a beast when it comes to dps in dungeons; it's ridiculous enough that I don't mind having another party member going tank spec (when it happens, my attitude is usually "I'll main tank bosses, but won't taunt off you unless you are getting pummeled hard. Let's pull as much trash as the healer can heal through."). I've intentionally co-tanked with another warrior from my guild who is still getting used to tanking.

    I'm not sure if there's an easy way for them to blanket-nerf vengeance's dps contributions only in 5-mans, and also keep threat generation high enough.

  10. #10
    Scarab Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bryntrollian View Post
    I haven't played in a couple months but I hardly believe any tank would out do dps me on any normal fight
    If you're not decked out in full RF gear or above then no, you won't out dps a tank in normal dungeons. I'm thinking more about the normal audience in normal dungeons and heroics. People who aren't fully geared or max level. They don't stand a chance on damage/DPS done.


    Quote Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
    The dps component of vengeance needs a massive nerf, like 80% reduction. Increase the threat generation component by 500% in exchange.
    ^ exactly what I was thinking.
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Not just vengeance, it's one more important thing:
    Most tanks have great AoE-burst!
    That really makes the meters explode in their favour and the mobs die too fast to let it balance out.
    and why is their aoe burst so great? Vengeance! i ran an instance with another dude whod signed as tank and dps even though he had no dps offspec and his dps was abysmal because he couldnt get the mobs off of me (heirloom tank ftw!) Yet when we signed for another and i went dps so he could tank his dps exploded

  12. #12
    Epic! RaoBurning's Avatar
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    Because somebody has to stand in the fire and keep the healers awake.
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
    The dps component of vengeance needs a massive nerf, like 80% reduction. Increase the threat generation component by 500% in exchange.
    Then we would need an hour to complete every low level instance

  14. #14
    that question is honestly pretty dumb. I was expecting "why do we need healers-tanks in normal dungeons", since you can clear them with 5 dps no problem, but 5 tanks? what the hell.

  15. #15
    Scarab Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blutelf View Post
    that question is honestly pretty dumb. I was expecting "why do we need healers-tanks in normal dungeons", since you can clear them with 5 dps no problem, but 5 tanks? what the hell.
    If you read my entire post you would've seen that it wasn't actually the question.

    Is it really necessary for tanks to have the same or higher dps than pure dps classes in dungeons? And more importantly, does tanks DPS capabilities actually ruin the fun for DPS specs?
    That's the question.
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeavline View Post
    I'm not sure if it's just me being awesome at tanking but I always do 50-60% of all damage done in normal dungeons.
    An awesome tank would know how vengeance works tbh.

  17. #17
    Herald of the Titans Bryntrollian's Avatar
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    You are talking about a low gear level in a particular section of the game that really doesn't matter anymore.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    I don't think I know what the acronym "tsg" is. It's not RBG's or Arena, random battlegrounds, or any form of dungeon or raid that I can think of. What does it mean?

  18. #18
    DPS only really compete with each-other now. When you beat a tank, even if you're doing really well in any 5 man, it's because the tank is under performing.
    One cannot simply quit wow his way into Mordor.

  19. #19
    The Patient Lana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bryntrollian View Post
    You are talking about a low gear level in a particular section of the game that really doesn't matter anymore.
    basically this. tank damage isn't tuned for heroic dungeons, and the damage done within these is irrelevant to any class balancing. if you want to talk about tanks achieving top parses in raids above the dps, you'd have a slightly better argument.

    also, a tank will very rarely beat my dps in a dungeon. and if he/she does, it doesn't affect my opinion on my capability. i smash bosses so quickly that people usually don't care about beating me on trash.

  20. #20
    Scarab Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windfury View Post
    An awesome tank would know how vengeance works tbh.
    That would probably be beneficial, yes. And your point is that I don't? I know very well where tanks dps come from, that's not the question I had though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryntrollian View Post
    You are talking about a low gear level in a particular section of the game that really doesn't matter anymore.
    Of course it matters. You spend a lot of time leveling and gearing your character in low-level contents. I'm not saying that it actually matters when it comes to achieving maxlevel or raid-ready gear. But it would add a fun factor to dungeons and heroics for DPS specs. It's fun to be top DPSer and it makes time go faster when you're actually competing with other dpsers to be the best.
    Last edited by Deleted; 2013-02-02 at 12:08 PM.
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