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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Plenty of innocent Sunreavers were tortured and killed who didn't fight back. She murders 5 non-hostile Blood Elves before capturing Aethas.
    You mean the bodyguards protecting the now rebel leader who refuses to leave a city he has been exiled from? Im sure they would have definetly given themselves up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    The Purge is her going down the vengeful path over a minor infraction compared to the destruction of Theramore. She betrays every principle she espoused earlier in the quest The Fate of Dalaran.
    Yea, its pretty convienent for Aethas to say those words after proving to the other leaders of Dalaran how either a) incompetent he was for not being able to control his people or b) getting exposed for his own hidden agenda.

    He is either the worst leader in WoW's history, who has zero control over his rebelious and treasonous people, or he himself was seceretly in league with the Horde all along. Take your pick, but no matter which it is, both completely justify Jaina's actions.

  2. #82
    Stood in the Fire Satanous's Avatar
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    Garrosh will beat them both once he starts dealing with Sargeras to become more powerful now that the sha failed. Jaina is nothing more then an angry child at this point she built a military city within earshot of the horde capital and got slapped down like she deserved.
    Last edited by Satanous; 2013-02-10 at 07:30 PM.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by babo7000 View Post
    You mean the bodyguards protecting the now rebel leader who refuses to leave a city he has been exiled from? Im sure they would have definetly given themselves up.
    She killed them without provocation. Aethas wasn't even there when she killed the first 3.

    Quote Originally Posted by babo7000 View Post
    Yea, its pretty convienent for Aethas to say those words after proving to the other leaders of Dalaran how either a) incompetent he was for not being able to control his people or b) getting exposed for his own hidden agenda.

    He is either the worst leader in WoW's history, who has zero control over his rebelious and treasonous people, or he himself was seceretly in league with the Horde all along. Take your pick, but no matter which it is, both completely justify Jaina's actions.
    Aethas publicly denounces Garrosh on multiple occasions, approves military action against Garrosh, strongly believes the Blood Elves should withdraw from the Horde, worked almost his entire career to mend the relations between Quel'Thalas and Dalaran (after the Kirin Tor betrayed them in 3rd War), and supports Jaina's appointment to leader of the Council of Six. He must be secretly in league with the Horde.

    Spies fucking run around all over Azeroth. Everyone has spies, yet somehow Aethas is incompetent because he couldn't catch some? Spies working for Garrosh don't count as representatives of the Sunreavers. Those spies represent Garrosh. Genn has spies, Varian has spies, even Jaina has her own spy network.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-02-10 at 07:30 PM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  4. #84
    New Kid Zaelsino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babo7000 View Post
    You mean the bodyguards protecting the now rebel leader who refuses to leave a city he has been exiled from? Im sure they would have definetly given themselves up.
    She gunned half of them down before she even brought the subject up, and the surviving ones didn't even fight back after she had killed the others and captured Aethas.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    She killed them without provocation. Aethas wasn't even there when she killed the first 3.


    Aethas publicly denounces Garrosh on multiple occasions, approves military action against Garrosh, strongly believes the Blood Elves should withdraw from the Horde, worked almost his entire career to mend the relations between Quel'Thalas and Dalaran (after the Kirin Tor betrayed them in 3rd War), and supports Jaina's appointment to leader of the Council of Six. He must be secretly in league with the Horde.

    Spies fucking run around all over Azeroth. Everyone has spies, yet somehow Aethas is incompetent because he couldn't catch some? Spies working for Garrosh don't count as representatives of the Sunreavers. Those spies represent Garrosh. Genn has spies, Varian has spies, even Jaina has her own spy network.
    Okay, then like i said, if not Aethas, than a lot of the Sunreavers are clearly alligned with the Horde, and Aethas is completely useless and can't control these people. One time is understandable, but for it to happen again, and for him to not take any responsibility shows how smug and incompetent he is. Because of his inaction on his own people, they all got discriminated against and exiled. Im not even prepared to call the Sunreavers as a whole innocent, because like i said, judging Varessas and other Silver Cov eagerness to arrest/kill the Sunreavers, we can only assume at least an equally large portion of the Sunreavers have the same ill feelings. The thing that seperated the two? Varessa could control the Silver Cov not to betray the Kirin Tor.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by babo7000 View Post
    Okay, then like i said, if not Aethas, than a lot of the Sunreavers are clearly alligned with the Horde, and Aethas is completely useless and can't control these people. One time is understandable, but for it to happen again, and for him to not take any responsibility shows how smug and incompetent he is. Because of his inaction on his own people, they all got discriminated against and exiled. Im not even prepared to call the Sunreavers as a whole innocent, because like i said, judging Varessas and other Silver Cov eagerness to arrest/kill the Sunreavers, we can only assume at least an equally large portion of the Sunreavers have the same ill feelings. The thing that seperated the two? Varessa could control the Silver Cov not to betray the Kirin Tor.
    The Silver Cov had more to gain from siding with Jaina

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaelsino View Post
    She gunned half of them down before she even brought the subject up, and the surviving ones didn't even fight back after she had killed the others and captured Aethas.
    I see it as, if she didn't take a few down, who's to say Aethas and co wouldnt have just attacked her after she demanded them to leave? Sort of a Shock and Awe tactic.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by babo7000 View Post
    I see it as, if she didn't take a few down, who's to say Aethas and co wouldnt have just attacked her after she demanded them to leave? Sort of a Shock and Awe tactic.
    Killing innocents to shock and awe makes her a bad person.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by SherbertLand View Post
    The Silver Cov had more to gain from siding with Jaina
    And that is? Seems like both Silver Cov and Sunreavers got equal support from Ally/Horde after this.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-10 at 07:42 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by SherbertLand View Post
    Killing innocents to shock and awe makes her a bad person.
    And letting the Sunreavers go unpunished makes a worse leader.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by babo7000 View Post
    And that is? Seems like both Silver Cov and Sunreavers got equal support from Ally/Horde after this.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-10 at 07:42 PM ----------



    And letting the Sunreavers go unpunished makes a worse leader.
    Did you miss the part about the Horde getting kicked out and the sunreavers imprisoned? They gained Dalaran.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by babo7000 View Post
    Okay, then like i said, if not Aethas, than a lot of the Sunreavers are clearly alligned with the Horde, and Aethas is completely useless and can't control these people. One time is understandable, but for it to happen again, and for him to not take any responsibility shows how smug and incompetent he is. Because of his inaction on his own people, they all got discriminated against and exiled. Im not even prepared to call the Sunreavers as a whole innocent, because like i said, judging Varessas and other Silver Cov eagerness to arrest/kill the Sunreavers, we can only assume at least an equally large portion of the Sunreavers have the same ill feelings. The thing that seperated the two? Varessa could control the Silver Cov not to betray the Kirin Tor.
    Aethas should have demonstrated the same leadership he did in ToW and taken responsibility. But different authors are different authors even though it's all canon.

    Jaina put it best: "You're so passionate for your cause and clear in convictions. Believe me when I say that the Sunreavers are the same. The Horde is their family.
    Not all of them support Garrosh. But they're not about to abandon their own people... I couldn't ask them to without tearing the Kirin Tor apart.
    The Kirin Tor is sacred to me. We need to stay united."

    During the Dominance Offensive questline, the only Sunreaver we see working for Garrosh is Fanlyr. He's also the only Sunreaver we see in Darnassus (the other mages were from Silvermoon). The Orc at Domination Point, refers to a singular agent being placed in Darnassus to steal the Bell. The dialogue from the Sunreaver Citizens show they have no idea what is going on or why the Silver Covenant are gunning for them.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by SherbertLand View Post
    Did you miss the part about the Horde getting kicked out and the sunreavers imprisoned? They gained Dalaran.
    Did you miss the part where the Sunreavers joined the Horde? Or in WotLK when Dalaran became equal part Sunreaver and Silver Cov?

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by babo7000 View Post
    And that is? Seems like both Silver Cov and Sunreavers got equal support from Ally/Horde after this.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-10 at 07:42 PM ----------



    And letting the Sunreavers go unpunished makes a worse leader.
    Innocents don't need to be punished.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Aethas should have demonstrated the same leadership he did in ToW and taken responsibility. But different authors are different authors even though it's all canon.

    Jaina put it best: "You're so passionate for your cause and clear in convictions. Believe me when I say that the Sunreavers are the same. The Horde is their family.
    Not all of them support Garrosh. But they're not about to abandon their own people... I couldn't ask them to without tearing the Kirin Tor apart.
    The Kirin Tor is sacred to me. We need to stay united."

    During the Dominance Offensive questline, the only Sunreaver we see working for Garrosh is Fanlyr. He's also the only Sunreaver we see in Darnassus (the other mages were from Silvermoon). The Orc at Domination Point, refers to a singular agent being placed in Darnassus to steal the Bell. The dialogue from the Sunreaver Citizens show they have no idea what is going on or why the Silver Covenant are gunning for them.
    I know it sucks, its war. Aethas maybe couldve handled Jaina's accusasions better, but he came off as if he didnt give two shits about his people betraying the Kirin Tor again. He kinda screwed over every innocent Sunreaver.

    Jaina is no worse than Aethas.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by babo7000 View Post
    Did you miss the part where the Sunreavers joined the Horde? Or in WotLK when Dalaran became equal part Sunreaver and Silver Cov?
    Seriously? Did you really just say it's okay for the sunreavers to be kicked out of dalaran present day mop because Dalaran is equal part sunreaver and equal part silver cov? Are you seriously proposing this as an argument?

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by SherbertLand View Post
    Innocents don't need to be punished.
    Yes, but Aethas had to. Jaina wouldn't have been able to do much with five powerful mages guarding Aethas, he would have brushed her off more than he did.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by babo7000 View Post
    Did you miss the part where the Sunreavers joined the Horde? Or in WotLK when Dalaran became equal part Sunreaver and Silver Cov?
    Aethas' faction tag has always been <Kirin Tor>. Vereesa's faction tag has always been <Silver Covenant>. Quite a clear difference in where their loyalties lie.

    This is further demonstrated during the Purge when Vereesa says, "Show them the cost of their defiance. They now face the judgment of the Alliance, the Silver Covenant, and the Kirin Tor!" Notice how she lists the Alliance first and Kirin Tor last.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by babo7000 View Post
    Yes, but Aethas had to. Jaina wouldn't have been able to do much with five powerful mages guarding Aethas, he would have brushed her off more than he did.
    You've got to be trolling. Jaina is the strongest Mage on azeroth right now. And that's a well known fact. She almost killed Thrall from how insane she went.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by babo7000 View Post
    Fair enough. No one can argue that Theramore didn't make sense, I mean it was a city in enemy territory, that had soldiers supplying aid to the Alliance. The only real gripes people have with it is for moral issues, since Garrosh had no intention of ever having civillians get away.



    Varian asked her to pledge the Kirin Tor to the Alliance, she said no, because the Kirin Tor and Dalaran could stand as an example of neutrality prevailing over petty faction rivalries. This was AFTER she already had Theramore destroyed due to Sunreaver betrayal.

    She shouldn't be blamed that the Sunreavers would ONCE AGAIN betray her, and use Dalaran portals to aid the Horde in entering Alliance territory. That is treason, and the second time the Sunreavers committed it.

    She even gave the Sunreavers the option to leave, but Aethas, despite knowing that he should take full responsibility for the actions of his people, refuses this, so she is forced to imprison SOME. She only kills those that are openly hostile and fight back.



    Have you ever read a certain book? It's called Tides of War. Jaina was going down the tragic hero path you are describing, but snapped out of it. She is not going to end up going there again.

    Not once has she ever said in MoP her intention is to crush the Horde. Her anger is directed to the orcs, but much more so, Garrosh. Once he is gone, she will lose this hatred, but still maintain a dislike.

    People are saying Jaina is going to go villain cause she wants to kill Garrosh, but it's gonna spiral out of control? Guess Varian, Lor, Vol'Jin, Rogers, Tyrande, and every nameless Alliance and even some Horde grunts, are going to end up going insane, just because it can happen.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-10 at 06:48 PM ----------



    This is where you are wrong. We have no idea how much Sunreavers were in on this, but seeing as how eager the Silver Covenent was to imprision Sunreavers, we can only assume they would feel the same. So clearly, a lot of Sunreaver/Silver Covenent had strong ties to the Horde/Alliance, but only one group acted out on it.

    Now, to use an example as to why the Sunreavers removal is completely justified.

    I'm from Canada, so let's say a group of officials representing the Government secretly lend aid to China (let's say were in wartime), and this ends up getting New York City destroyed. Once this comes out, the entire country of Canada will be heavily criticized for this, and would run a serious risk of getting kicked out of a military faction, lets say NATO.

    Now if we were to somehow stay in NATO after this, how likely do you think the USA will be to forgive Canada a second time for lending aid to China at the cost of US casualties? Not very, we would quickly become the enemy.
    I dont know where to begin on your last point. You say im wrong but have no evidence? just no sir no. We only know a small amount of them were involved from the quests and to pursue an entire group of people due to a small minorities known actions is plain wrong. Please look that up a bit more before posting

    like a splinter faction or terrorist group does an action, do you pursue the entire race/country because of them? no.

  20. #100
    Bloodsail Admiral KunkkaTheAdmiral's Avatar
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    As long as this bitch does not touch Ironforge, I'm okay with this.

    I'm not sure about both, that power is pretty huge, especially Lei Shen's power for her staff. After all, she is a pretty strong mage even without it.
    "Why do we fight? To protect home and family, to preserve balance and bring harmony. For my kind the true question is, what is worth fighting for?"

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