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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Snorri View Post
    I don't see how any of that is worse than NUKING Theramore.
    I dont see how nuking Theramore was bad at all.
    Most people do not realize the talent and skill it requires to be in a top guild. Many of you think its only about time invested, but that couldn't be further from the truth.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by SherbertLand View Post
    Seriously? Did you really just say it's okay for the sunreavers to be kicked out of dalaran present day mop because Dalaran is equal part sunreaver and equal part silver cov? Are you seriously proposing this as an argument?
    Seeing as how in 5.2 the combined might of the Kirin Tor and Silver Cov is only enough to just rival the combined might off the Sunreavers with Quel'thalas, I don't think the Alliance gained much more.

    And about Jaina almost killing Thrall, no she didnt. He remarked on how amazed he was that he didn't die, but gave no indication of any pain.

    Lorewise, Jaina being a strong Mage doesn't mean much against 6 other powerful mages. She would stilll die if theyattacked her just as she attacked them (re. Sylvanas getting one shot)

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-10 at 07:59 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    I dont know where to begin on your last point. You say im wrong but have no evidence? just no sir no. We only know a small amount of them were involved from the quests and to pursue an entire group of people due to a small minorities known actions is plain wrong. Please look that up a bit more before posting

    like a splinter faction or terrorist group does an action, do you pursue the entire race/country because of them? no.
    In war, yes that entire country would get punished in some way. This isnt set in present day standards, where we are more level headed and forgiving, this takes place in a fantasy medieval setting. Do you really think people would argue what Jaina did if this were an issue 1000y ago?

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by babo7000 View Post
    Seeing as how in 5.2 the combined might of the Kirin Tor and Silver Cov is only enough to just rival the combined might off the Sunreavers with Quel'thalas, I don't think the Alliance gained much more.

    And about Jaina almost killing Thrall, no she didnt. He remarked on how amazed he was that he didn't die, but gave no indication of any pain.

    Lorewise, Jaina being a strong Mage doesn't mean much against 6 other powerful mages. She would stilll die if theyattacked her just as she attacked them (re. Sylvanas getting one shot)

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-10 at 07:59 PM ----------



    In war, yes that entire country would get punished in some way. This isnt set in present day standards, where we are more level headed and forgiving, this takes place in a fantasy medieval setting. Do you really think people would argue what Jaina did if this were an issue 1000y ago?
    What sticks out as medieval to you? And you can't compare real world standards to fantasy world standards.

  4. #104
    there are still ppl giving a fuck about theramore? garrosh? is shit and jaina too i really hope blizz will give me a chance to kick her ass.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by SherbertLand View Post
    What sticks out as medieval to you? And you can't compare real world standards to fantasy world standards.
    Lol. Well i mean WoW is stuck in some time loop where they h/ave primitive weapons on one end, and technology greater than we have tday on the other, but at it's heart with humans riding horseback only and ships only and still living in castles, its obvious where the insipiration is from.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by babo7000 View Post
    And about Jaina almost killing Thrall, no she didnt. He remarked on how amazed he was that he didn't die, but gave no indication of any pain.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tides of War
    She splayed her fingers and shoved her hand forward. Thrall flew backward, slammed hard by something lavenderwhite and glowing. His world went gray for a second and he landed on his back on the sand, gasping for breath. His whole body shuddered, but he forced himself to rise and direct his energy toward holding back the tidal wave.
    The attack had not been intended to loosen his hold over the elements. The attack had been meant to kill.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tides of War
    He heard and felt the heat behind him. Lamenting the need, he redirected his imploring from the spirits of water to a spirit of fire. Thrall whirled, his hands up to do what he could to protect himself from the massive fireball hurtling toward him. The Spirit of Fire was angry and tortured, and for a moment Thrall feared it would not hear him in time. Defensively he threw up three orbs of water that circled swiftly around him and granted him energy. Thrall could not help but close his eyes as he braced for the searing heat and pain. At the last second, the huge swirling ball seemed to fracture, flames going off in all directions. Only a very few struck the shaman, but those singed his robes and flesh painfully.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tides of War
    “Release the wind, Thrall!” Jaina shouted. One hand still on the Focusing Iris, she drew back the other. Arcane energy whirled about her, tossing her robes and white hair. “Or I will kill you where you stand, and you will still fail!”
    “Do so!” gasped Thrall. “Slay me! Turn your back on everything that once gave you integrity and compassion! For I will not permit this
    wave to crash upon Orgrimmar as long as there is breath in my body!”
    For an instant, it seemed to him that Jaina wavered in her determination. Then her face hardened.
    “So be it,” she murmured, and gathered the energy in her hand.
    I skipped the part where she summoned a column of fire because he dodged it. But she fought hard trying to kill Thrall. Her first move was a kill shot.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-02-10 at 08:12 PM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  7. #107
    Pandaren Monk Solzan Nemesis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babo7000 View Post
    He is either the worst leader in WoW's history, who has zero control over his rebelious and treasonous people, or he himself was seceretly in league with the Horde all along. Take your pick, but no matter which it is, both completely justify Jaina's actions.
    And Jaina's actions justifies me putting arrows in her.

  8. #108
    Why are we even talking about Kirin Tor vs. Sunreavers? They are going on a truce after 5.2, Garrosh is the main target.

  9. #109
    If we're going to see elements of raid bosses have ramifications for the story after the fact, then good. Makes the whole narrative seem like a more cohesive whole. Reminds me of how they brought back the Reliquary of Souls for the warlock thing and had his fancy room contain ramifications for the entire BC storyline.

    Kinda hoping we'll then see Elegon's construct generator machinery moved from the Mogu'Shan vaults to Orgrimmar and installed in the ragefire chasms. Make a great arena for the final boss fight.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    I skipped the part where she summoned a column of fire because he dodged it. But she fought hard trying to kill Thrall. Her first move was a kill shot.
    Okay one part where he mentions pain. But even then, right before that, he prepares for worse pain. I didnt say she didnt try to, I said she couldn't. You were saying her being 'the most powerful mage' (hai azshara), meant Aethas and 5 sunreavers couldnt kill her. I was showing how she clearly isnt all powerful, as she couldnt even kill Thrall. (Who given is strong, but is still one man)

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by babo7000 View Post
    Seeing as how in 5.2 the combined might of the Kirin Tor and Silver Cov is only enough to just rival the combined might off the Sunreavers with Quel'thalas, I don't think the Alliance gained much more.

    And about Jaina almost killing Thrall, no she didnt. He remarked on how amazed he was that he didn't die, but gave no indication of any pain.

    Lorewise, Jaina being a strong Mage doesn't mean much against 6 other powerful mages. She would stilll die if theyattacked her just as she attacked them (re. Sylvanas getting one shot)

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-10 at 07:59 PM ----------



    In war, yes that entire country would get punished in some way. This isnt set in present day standards, where we are more level headed and forgiving, this takes place in a fantasy medieval setting. Do you really think people would argue what Jaina did if this were an issue 1000y ago?
    Their standards are far beyond medievil standards we had. Even then people would have discussed it more likely (those who new) In this setting the people are far more advanced both culturally and technologically. You can't compare the two. Like I said her actions shock even varian, it says so in the quest line. So please think a little bit more about it

  12. #112
    Couple of things I'd like to point out.

    1. The civilians WERE evacuated from Theramore by ship.

    2. Jaina was under the effects of the mana bomb and dealing with the grief of having her entire city destroyed in an instant. While she still 'wrestles with her anger every day' she is not as crazed as she was when fighting Thrall. Even now, most of her hateful comments are aimed at Garrosh. 'There can be no lasting peace so long as garrosh hellscream is warchief,' 'the kirin tor will come down so hard on garrosh his ancestors will reel,' 'bring the walls of orgrimmar crashing down around garrosh.' Jaina's certainly not back where she was before the bombing of Theramore, but she's not in the same state of mind she was in when planning to destroy Orgrimmar either.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    Their standards are far beyond medievil standards we had. Even then people would have discussed it more likely (those who new) In this setting the people are far more advanced both culturally and technologically. You can't compare the two. Like I said her actions shock even varian, it says so in the quest line. So please think a little bit more about it
    yea lol, said some things that didnt make sense. Don't get into faction arguements while high i guess xD

  14. #114
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    They knew Theramore was going to be attacked ahead of time. They could have evacuated the civilians. Theramore was a valid target being a "military city of no little reputation" (ToW).
    Civilians were evacuated and many chose not to leave. I'm not arguing Theramore wasn't a valid target, in fact I specifically left that part out because I don't want to get into another "was Theramore an okay target debate" I want to keep this as on-topic as I can without beating the dead horse on a related issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    She let Arthas slaughter everyone in Stratholme. She didn't even try to stop him. And don't give me any BS about her sex embargo.
    What could she have honestly done?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    "Better yet why do people use it as an excuse for Garrosh's attempted genocide?"

    Why are you dismissing her attempted genocide? She tried really hard too.
    Garrosh went through with his, Jaina didn't. Why are you bringing this up?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Not like she doesn't have spies in the Horde. "Pained, who was in charge of Jaina’s spy network, departed when she heard the news." (ToW)
    I take it those spies were also orc citizens who abused their position within Orgrimmar? Apples and oranges. What you're comparing is completely different.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    She could have worked with the Alliance to stop Garrosh without joining the Alliance.
    Which would ultimately accomplish less. Working completely as one is much better.


    I seriously initially replied with the hope that destruction of Theramore or purge wouldn't have to be discussed again....
    I'm actually getting tired of repeated discussions over it, I just want to move onto the 5.2 stuff.
    Last edited by Scummer; 2013-02-10 at 10:26 PM.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Khuzard View Post
    Quoted for truth.

    We can't let a crazy chick like her roam free with such overhelming powers.

    Vote for Jaina as an upcoming raid boss. Maybe throw in Modera and Vereesa as her sidekicks as well.
    you wish...

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    What could she have honestly done?
    I thought she is supposed to be the most powerful mage in the world. She couldn't think of, maybe, teleporting him back to Lordaeron ?

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Yriel View Post
    I thought she is supposed to be the most powerful mage in the world. She couldn't think of, maybe, teleporting him back to Lordaeron ?
    He was the Crown Heir of Lordaeron, commander of the Alliance forces. That would be considered treason. And Jaina wasn't that powerful at the time.

    And Mal'Ganis would gain a huge undead army.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    He was the Crown Heir of Lordaeron, commander of the Alliance forces. That would be considered treason. And Jaina wasn't that powerful at the time.

    And Mal'Ganis would gain a huge undead army.
    Yep she now have the balls to teleport King Varian in a Battle for the Undercity, when he was about to solo with you Thrall, Sylvanas and other
    Ah that moment, the bitch ruined everything. That day Alliance would be victorious !
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  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    Civilians were evacuated and many chose not to leave. I'm not arguing Theramore wasn't a valid target, in fact I specifically left that part out because I don't want to get into another "was Theramore an okay target debate" I want to keep this as on-topic as I can without beating the dead horse on a related issue.

    What could she have honestly done?
    Actually try to stop him? Thrall didn't just walk away saying, "I can't watch this" when he confronted Jaina. Thrall threw all his might at stopping her, he was willing to die to save his people and her soul.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    I take it those spies were also orc citizens who abused their position within Orgrimmar? Apples and oranges. What you're comparing is completely different.
    So it's okay for Jaina to coerce orcs to work for her, then throws a hissy fit when Garrosh coerces her people to work for him?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    Which would ultimately accomplish less. Working completely as one is much better.
    Worked just fine when they defeated the Lich King. The Alliance didn't join the Horde, the Horde didn't join the Alliance. They remained autonomous, but worked together.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-10 at 03:42 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by babo7000 View Post
    Okay one part where he mentions pain. But even then, right before that, he prepares for worse pain. I didnt say she didnt try to, I said she couldn't. You were saying her being 'the most powerful mage' (hai azshara), meant Aethas and 5 sunreavers couldnt kill her. I was showing how she clearly isnt all powerful, as she couldnt even kill Thrall. (Who given is strong, but is still one man)
    I never said she was 'the most powerful mage'.

    She very easily could have killed Thrall. By the end of the battle, Thrall was spent and couldn't defend himself anymore. He used up all his energy holding back the tsunami and fighting her up to that point. She was even draining his energy directly because the Focusing Iris allowed her to control his spells.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-10 at 03:45 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    He was the Crown Heir of Lordaeron, commander of the Alliance forces. That would be considered treason. And Jaina wasn't that powerful at the time.

    And Mal'Ganis would gain a huge undead army.
    Yep, trying to stop the prince from murdering his people is treason. Why the fuck does that matter? She knows it's wrong, she says it's wrong, ...she walks away.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-10 at 03:53 PM ----------

    And in case you forgot, Kirin Tor mages were ready to put up shields and quarantine the plague.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-02-10 at 11:56 PM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Yep, trying to stop the prince from murdering his people is treason. Why the fuck does that matter? She knows it's wrong, she says it's wrong, ...she walks away.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-10 at 03:53 PM ----------

    And in case you forgot, Kirin Tor mages were ready to put up shields and quarantine the plague.
    Really? We are going as back as established plot for more than 10 years to a "Lets blame Jaina!" game?

    It would be treason. To the point Arthas disbanded the Knights of the Silver Hand just because Uther also refused to follow him.

    And Kirin Tor mages couldn't done anything to stop the Scourge. Again, Mal'Ganis would gain a huge undead army in Stratholme and roll over Lordaeron.

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