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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    No there isn't? There's been centuries of peace in smaller religious groups and it's only when religion is policitised that it is even used as a reason
    Where there is power there is war. I can't recall a war in history not based around power and wealth.
    And there have been Holy Wars raging for the same period of time.

    Just because you can find power struggles within a war, doesn't mean the war is exempt from religious undertones. The Middle East says "Hi".

  2. #102
    Scarab Lord Zhangfei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thepreacher View Post
    And there have been Holy Wars raging for the same period of time.

    Just because you can find power struggles within a war, doesn't mean the war is exempt from religious undertones. The Middle East says "Hi".
    Religious undertones =/= cause of war.

    Holy wars are nearly always about power and wealth. The Crusades, the Middle East today, tribes fighting in Africa - all comes down to power and wealth.

    Few people get inspired to war over theological differences.
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    Religious undertones =/= cause of war.

    Holy wars are nearly always about power and wealth. The Crusades, the Middle East today, tribes fighting in Africa - all comes down to power and wealth.

    Few people get inspired to war over theological differences.
    I'd consider religion more of an excuse used by people in power, frequently to get people to listen to them to go fight in these wars. The wars are still about power and wealth, but the people are convinced by those in power that the opposition are evil, with manipulating religion being one of the ways those in power force the civilians to choose sides. Anything that can divide us.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Having the authority to do a thing doesn't make it just, moral, or even correct.

  4. #104
    Scarab Lord Zhangfei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    I'd consider religion more of an excuse used by people in power, frequently to get people to listen to them to go fight in these wars. The wars are still about power and wealth, but the people are convinced by those in power that the opposition are evil, with manipulating religion being one of the ways those in power force the civilians to choose sides. Anything that can divide us.
    I'd agree. But that means removing religion wouldn't (and hasn't) made the world more peaceful or less likely to war. As long as resources are finite and people like power, it will happen.

    Religion as maker of war/doing of evil is a scapegoat used by people who do not know history.
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Avada Kedavra View Post
    My question to you is: How can this be fixed. Can it be fixed and how long do we have to wait before our societies realize there is a better way.
    watch the movie equilibrium, best fix there is!

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by thepreacher View Post
    Where there is religion, there is war.
    So, no religion = no war!

    Shit, why haven't we tried that before...

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Avada Kedavra View Post
    My question to you is: How can this be fixed. Can it be fixed and how long do we have to wait before our societies realize there is a better way.
    Outgrowing religion as it's currently practiced would be a fantastic start.

    Beyond that, I don't think you will fix it. Humans have an innate and extremely flawed propensity towards greed and, to a lesser extent, domination.. be it of nature, or other people. The biggest issue here is that, as you can see in how "the world works", we're actually ok with this, or simply convinced that it's a trait that is impossible to do without.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-12 at 02:07 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalyyn View Post
    War exists for the reason that diplomacy cannot solve everything.
    Today, war exists because leaders know their respective populations can be goaded into supporting it (and fighting it for them), and there's a shitload of money to be made, especially for the winner.

  8. #108
    Scarab Lord Zhangfei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    Outgrowing religion as it's currently practiced would be a fantastic start.
    Why can't we outgrow atheism? Surely you're being divisive and ridiculous against the vast majority of humans. That can't be your serious solution, surely?
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    Why can't we outgrow atheism? Surely you're being divisive and ridiculous against the vast majority of humans. That can't be your serious solution, surely?
    It most certainly is. Far more harm than good has been done in the name of <insert random deity name here> over the centuries. Worshipping as you please is fine, but more often than not, imposing your will on others becomes part of any given belief system, and then it becomes a limiting factor for societies in general.

  10. #110
    Scarab Lord Zhangfei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    It most certainly is. Far more harm than good has been done in the name of <insert random deity name here> over the centuries. Worshipping as you please is fine, but more often than not, imposing your will on others becomes part of any given belief system, and then it becomes a limiting factor for societies in general.
    I'd say the atheist societies that purged tens of millions of people are worse, or wars of nationalism. Nah, I'll stick to saying atheism is a much bigger problem, and anyone suggesting that we should remove billions of peoples own choices, thoughts, feelings, dreams and hopes is the worst kind if dictator the world can produce.

    Religion is a significant boon to humanity.
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

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