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  1. #21
    Bloodsail Admiral Dutchmagoz's Avatar
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    Equal. 10char

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-10 at 10:31 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Shink View Post
    Spirit gear = healer has priority
    INT/haste/crit = DPS priority


    Heals have more use out of spirit gear then pure int/etc


    Taking spirit gear just because of you get hit from it over a healer is unreasonable
    Hit is the best stat for all dps specs [casters] in the game, so no, it's not unreasonable. Not to mention, this way, your shamans, boomkins, shadow priests etc will only get coin loot... Since the only leather/mail gear there is for hit has spirit on them, not hit.
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  2. #22
    Dreadlord Pisholina's Avatar
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    This also happens with Paladin tanks. Not a lot of people realize that Protadins are very strong with Haste at the moment and everyone wants to give the plate gear with haste to a DPS without listening to your reasoning as to why you need it.

    OP: If an item works for more than one role, they should both have an equal chance of getting the item.
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  3. #23
    If you have any doubts as to who should get gear, open up the dungeon journal and see if that item is listed there as appropriate for their spec.

    As an aside; spriest / moonkin / ele shaman tier gear features spirit NOT hit. A human shadow priest will actually value spirit ABOVE hit.
    Spirit is just as good for hybrid casters as it is for healers in the same way that mastery is just as good for a shadow priest as it is for a warlock - just because it benefits the warlock more doesn't mean it's a warlock only stat.
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  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Shink View Post
    Spirit gear = healer has priority
    INT/haste/crit = DPS priority


    Heals have more use out of spirit gear then pure int/etc


    Taking spirit gear just because of you get hit from it over a healer is unreasonable
    Disagree. How is it unreasonable?
    Healers get regen from spirit, while DPS (hybrids) get hit from spirit. They both are valued equally. Keep in mind that there are ZERO caster leather/mail gear with HIT on it, aside from rings and necklaces. And even then the only reason that caster rings and necklaces can have hit on them is because there still exists pure DPS classes such as mages and locks. Go take a look at Elemental/Balance Tier set pieces, the ones that provide hit rating provides them in the form of spirit.

    Healers will only use pure int gear over spirit int gear when they no longer require any more regen. Likewise, DPS (hybrid) will only roll on pure int gear over spirit int gear when they no longer require any more hit. Spirit is valued equally for both Heals and hybrid DPS.

    The only reason I did not include shadow priest in my post is because Shadow priests atm have the advantage of using +hit AND +spirit solely because while +hit gear no longer exists for mail/leather, they still do exist for cloth since there are mages and locks. So for the case of spriests, its all a grey area atm.

  5. #25
    There is not a huge amount of mail caster gear in game (given that there's only 2 specs using it), and what there is is itemised so that it can be used by both resto and ele, thanks to the talent converting hit to spirit. You will find spirit gear in the ele BiS lists. It is assumed that ele shaman will be using that spirit gear when mail is itemised. Effectively by saying healer first always on that gear you're telling the shaman that no matter how deserving they're always going to be last, and for no reason aside from an old bias and a lack of familiarity with shaman loot options and design. I'd be fairly pissed as well.

  6. #26
    Stood in the Fire Chiasmus's Avatar
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    Spirit gear is actually better given to Shadow Priests/Elemental Shamans/Balance Druids over healers given that their role is significantly more gear dependent than that of a healer. Obviously this is a bitter pill to swallow for those who play a healing spec, and is particularly difficult to impose in a more casual raiding environment where people are often motivated by loot rather than progress.

    To the OP, you should definitely consider your Elemental Shaman as having at least an equal priority on spirit gear as healers.
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  7. #27
    Yeah, it's really up to your lootsystem to show who gets what.

    But generally for guilds that want to progress quickly gearing dps tends to be more important. My guild for instance, gives gear to our dps first, healers and tanks second. And our lootsystem is just need/greed, it's really just dependent on what kind of people you're raiding with.

    Spirit gear should go to spirit using classes first, healers and dps. However, I do tend to look down upon warlocks/mages who grab their current spirit-BiS ring over spirit users. But we dont have that problem anyway, as our Locks/mages aren't stupid.

  8. #28
    Mechagnome
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    I main a shaman healer and always get annoyed when a raidleader says that spiritgear is healer gear (it's just as much dps gear). I also get annoyed when a Raidleader decides that all gear without spirit is dps gear (yes i mean those pieces without spirit or hit).

  9. #29
    I think it should be equal. There are no mail or leather items with hit on, they all have spirit if it's for caster/healers, so ele shammys and boomkins have no choise there.

    When it comes to necks/rings, there are always such with hit on. But one with spirit can still be their BiS.

    In our 10 man, we have no loot system, we just roll if we need an item. Generally our hybrid dps (in our case just a shadow priest) passes on spirit gear for healers first just because he is a nice guy. However, IMO, if they can use the item to its fullest, they should have no reason to pass on it, unless they just want to pass it for the healers.

  10. #30
    For hybrid dps, spirit = hit.

    The loot tables have been adjusted to reflect it: There's no more int mail/leather with hit.

    So your lootsystem should adapt to the changes too.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Vasilisa View Post
    Generally spirit should go to healers first. Though really depends what are the alternative drops. There other question is: what are you currently struggling on your progress boss? If healing is not or barely enough then give it to healers, if you need more dps give it shadow priest, druid or shaman. Other alternative is to give it to healer with strong dps offspec.
    Generally an item should be distributed fairly amongst all players who took part in the boss kill.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valkryx View Post
    Alright im starting to have to face a bit of a loot drama issue as a guild leader. through out all the time i have played this game it has always been to my understanding that if gear drops spirit it should go to the healers first, if it has hit DPS first. with cata they gave shamans druids and priests a talent that converts spirit into hit but still never had an issue, spirit went to the healers hit went to the dps, now all of a sudden with MOP Im getting some complaint/arguements bout this (mainly just one guy, an ele shammy) where they are wanting to roll on healy neck/rings/shield argueing that the spirit gives them hit, i still prefer the mentality that spirit off-set pieces should go to the healers first, am i wrong in this? how has your guilds dealt with this?
    You are wrong, and you've a very outdated view on things. Here's a link to Elemental BiS list for 5.0 raids.

    This lists are generated by people who are good at what they do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shink View Post
    Spirit gear = healer has priority
    INT/haste/crit = DPS priority

    Heals have more use out of spirit gear then pure int/etc

    Taking spirit gear just because of you get hit from it over a healer is unreasonable
    It is unreasonable for a healer to WANT spirit on every item, in the first place, like GC pointed out several times. Another thing which was implemented with Cataclysm were reforging, which people make use of to further balance out their stats. And dude, INT is on every spell caster item in this game.
    Most people do not realize the talent and skill it requires to be in a top guild. Many of you think its only about time invested, but that couldn't be further from the truth.

  12. #32
    Yes you are wrong.

    There is no other gear for DPS. It's the same gear. They have no alternatives. Even the available alternatives (non-armor-class items like rings/amulets) should NOT be used by them because there are more spirit items than hit items in the current tier. That would just be unfair to your mages and warlocks.

    That means: If you tell your DPS "No you don't get it. Healers first." it equals ninja-looting and it just shows your raid that you either don't understand the loot system at all or are an unfair ass who distributes loot at will to his personal friends.

  13. #33
    Pit Lord Bryntrollian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zorlox View Post
    Yeah, it's really up to your lootsystem to show who gets what.

    But generally for guilds that want to progress quickly gearing dps tends to be more important. My guild for instance, gives gear to our dps first, healers and tanks second. And our lootsystem is just need/greed, it's really just dependent on what kind of people you're raiding with.

    Spirit gear should go to spirit using classes first, healers and dps. However, I do tend to look down upon warlocks/mages who grab their current spirit-BiS ring over spirit users. But we dont have that problem anyway, as our Locks/mages aren't stupid.
    You call the mages / warlocks stupid because a spirit ring is their BIS ?
    Synek - best rogue in the world
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    I don't think I know what the acronym "tsg" is. It's not RBG's or Arena, random battlegrounds, or any form of dungeon or raid that I can think of. What does it mean?

  14. #34
    Quite frankly i'd consider the dps getting geared up to be more of a priority a lot of the time; Healing I find isn't 'as' gear reliant, it's dependent on the fight and how well players do. But yeah, as said before - Some people don't have a choice and just have to equip spirit gear because there's nothing else. In my guild we use DKP, but i'd like to think that players take a bit of consideration about what other people need the item as well - Aka, not taking an item with the same ilvl as theirs over someone who has a blue 464 item and losing a heroic tier item.

  15. #35
    High Overlord Kornstyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Or you can get fucked by Blizzard and only have 1 "caster dps" ring drop, 2 spirit rings drop, and loot shared between bosses. Warlock and Mage BiS ring has spirit on it. GG, Blizzard.
    GG, Ghostshitter... Made one of the best games into a shitty one.....

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Bryntrollian View Post
    You call the mages / warlocks stupid because a spirit ring is their BIS ?
    If they roll on them before the classes who actually make use of spirit, then yes. Its also BiS for them. Even if you reforge the item, 60% of the spirit is still 100% useless to mages and locks.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-10 at 12:45 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kornstyle View Post
    GG, Ghostshitter... Made one of the best games into a shitty one.....
    If you find this stupid, did you know that the sha-touched mace which drops off the Empress is actually BiS to 8 different specs?

    That is terrible design.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-10 at 12:47 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Zypherz View Post
    Quite frankly i'd consider the dps getting geared up to be more of a priority a lot of the time; Healing I find isn't 'as' gear reliant, it's dependent on the fight and how well players do. But yeah, as said before - Some people don't have a choice and just have to equip spirit gear because there's nothing else. In my guild we use DKP, but i'd like to think that players take a bit of consideration about what other people need the item as well - Aka, not taking an item with the same ilvl as theirs over someone who has a blue 464 item and losing a heroic tier item.
    The question would be, why someone in your raid wears an ilvl 464 item... I tend to be harsh with people who refuse doing dailies/LFR/etc. in order to replace such items, giving them loot you worked as hard would reward their mentality.
    Last edited by UcanDoSht; 2013-02-10 at 11:48 AM.
    Most people do not realize the talent and skill it requires to be in a top guild. Many of you think its only about time invested, but that couldn't be further from the truth.

  17. #37
    Pit Lord Bryntrollian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    If they roll on them before the classes who actually make use of spirit, then yes. Its also BiS for them. Even if you reforge the item, 60% of the spirit is still 100% useless to mages and locks.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-10 at 12:45 PM ----------



    If you find this stupid, did you know that the sha-touched mace which drops off the Empress is actually BiS to 8 different specs?

    That is terrible design.
    Im sure it will be all better when a thunderforged item is bis instead
    Synek - best rogue in the world
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    I don't think I know what the acronym "tsg" is. It's not RBG's or Arena, random battlegrounds, or any form of dungeon or raid that I can think of. What does it mean?

  18. #38
    personally i would say give healers slightly higher priority if it will increase their regen.
    if they're fine with regen its equal.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    If they roll on them before the classes who actually make use of spirit, then yes. Its also BiS for them. Even if you reforge the item, 60% of the spirit is still 100% useless to mages and locks.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-10 at 12:45 PM ----------



    If you find this stupid, did you know that the sha-touched mace which drops off the Empress is actually BiS to 8 different specs?

    That is terrible design.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-10 at 12:47 PM ----------



    The question would be, why someone in your raid wears an ilvl 464 item... I tend to be harsh with people who refuse doing dailies/LFR/etc. in order to replace such items, giving them loot you worked as hard would reward their mentality.
    It was just an example It could be a LFR > heroic upgrade compared to a Heroic > heroic upgrade then ^.^ - For the record, I was stuck with a blue weapon on my monk for a VERY long time - Just had absolutely 0 luck with them

  20. #40
    Brewmaster chaosjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shamanberry View Post
    Piece of advice that can resolve almost any loot drama:

    Have everyone in your guild make a Best-in-Slot item list for their class/spec. Rather than arbitrarily trying to decide a piece of gear is for X class/role, go by the BiS lists - if an item is BiS for someone, they have equal priority on it to anyone else that it's BiS for. If it's not BiS, it's open to whoever can use it as a temporary upgrade, according to your loot system.

    Solves nearly all healer/DPS and tank/DPS disputes, as well as forcing people to know the loot table rather than just picking up an item because they can -- only to replace it 2 bosses later, when it may have been a better item for someone else.
    hmm good idea. my team has no problem with loot cause we are tight knit group. but this actually makes alot of sense

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