1. #1

    WW 5.2 PvP clarification

    So I've been reading about how 5.2 WW monks are going to be 'god mode' essentially, is there any shred of truth in that, or is it all over exaggeration? I love playing my monk now - but they do need a few things fixing.

    From what I gather from patch notes:

    - We get a new talented silence/disarm
    - Deadly reach is baseline
    - Overall self healing buff (Coupled with universal hybrid PvP power healing buff)
    - No Chi costs to Tok or Tiger's Lust
    - A cleave

    Now, forgive me if I'm being short sighted, but these seem like quality of life changes that are needed and not game breaking changes I've heard so much about.

    Technically our damage is the same - which is pretty unbursty, it's only our utility that's getting buffed - but that doesn't look like it's going to be the 'be all and end all'
    1) Load the amount of weight I would deadlift onto the bench
    2) Unrack
    3) Crank out 15 reps
    4) Be ashamed of constantly skipping leg day

  2. #2
    Well on PTR new Spinning fire blossom is like the old S5 DK icy touch spam, it does stupid good damage, like 80k non crits on PVP geared peoples. That change alone would make monks OP if it went through, though I'm 99% sure it'll get a second look and a rightful nerf before it goes live, or else it will break PVP next season.

    And new mastery makes burst much better if you chose so.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Emophia View Post
    Well on PTR new Spinning fire blossom is like the old S5 DK icy touch spam, it does stupid good damage, like 80k non crits on PVP geared peoples. That change alone would make monks OP if it went through, though I'm 99% sure it'll get a second look and a rightful nerf before it goes live, or else it will break PVP next season.

    And new mastery makes burst much better if you chose so.
    didn't they say SFB will scale with weapon damage resulting in an overall nerf?
    1) Load the amount of weight I would deadlift onto the bench
    2) Unrack
    3) Crank out 15 reps
    4) Be ashamed of constantly skipping leg day

  4. #4
    - Overall self healing buff (Coupled with universal hybrid PvP power healing buff)

    nooooooope
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Reglitch View Post
    - Overall self healing buff (Coupled with universal hybrid PvP power healing buff)

    nooooooope
    care to explain? PvP 25% increase to PvP power healing. + Chi Wave 100% increase and no chi cost.
    1) Load the amount of weight I would deadlift onto the bench
    2) Unrack
    3) Crank out 15 reps
    4) Be ashamed of constantly skipping leg day

  6. #6
    rop already got nerfed and the rest just nice to have. in my opinion (aside from the new mastery) we need an overall dmg buff (about 3-5%).
    we start with no teyebrew stacks and have no execute, these are the biggest problems of a monk.

  7. #7
    Dreadlord Kyuubi87's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightflare View Post
    rop already got nerfed and the rest just nice to have. in my opinion (aside from the new mastery) we need an overall dmg buff (about 3-5%).
    we start with no teyebrew stacks and have no execute, these are the biggest problems of a monk.
    Spot on. I'm sure the coming changes will help us quite a bit, but we are not 'there yet' on the point we need to be.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightflare View Post
    rop already got nerfed and the rest just nice to have. in my opinion (aside from the new mastery) we need an overall dmg buff (about 3-5%).
    we start with no teyebrew stacks and have no execute, these are the biggest problems of a monk.
    As much as I love Monks, I feel something is missing.
    1) Load the amount of weight I would deadlift onto the bench
    2) Unrack
    3) Crank out 15 reps
    4) Be ashamed of constantly skipping leg day

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by willtron View Post
    care to explain? PvP 25% increase to PvP power healing. + Chi Wave 100% increase and no chi cost.
    At the minute on the PTR chi wave is actually healing for less than live. You'll get values you see now roughly with the 25% pvp power increase but it now has a double duration.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Reglitch View Post
    At the minute on the PTR chi wave is actually healing for less than live. You'll get values you see now roughly with the 25% pvp power increase but it now has a double duration.
    Don't they always do numbers last on PTR though?
    1) Load the amount of weight I would deadlift onto the bench
    2) Unrack
    3) Crank out 15 reps
    4) Be ashamed of constantly skipping leg day

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Reglitch View Post
    At the minute on the PTR chi wave is actually healing for less than live. You'll get values you see now roughly with the 25% pvp power increase but it now has a double duration.
    yup. tested it. first they doubled the heal+dmg as well as the cd (that was great!). but right now the cd is doubled and the heal is a joke.
    full pvp 16k per jump, full pve 22k per jump (ilvl 513)

    in the end nothing changed. every range class kite you to death and other melees are still freeloot (1v1)

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by willtron View Post
    So I've been reading about how 5.2 WW monks are going to be 'god mode' essentially, is there any shred of truth in that, or is it all over exaggeration? I love playing my monk now - but they do need a few things fixing.

    From what I gather from patch notes:

    - We get a new talented silence/disarm
    - Deadly reach is baseline
    - Overall self healing buff (Coupled with universal hybrid PvP power healing buff)
    - No Chi costs to Tok or Tiger's Lust
    - A cleave

    Now, forgive me if I'm being short sighted, but these seem like quality of life changes that are needed and not game breaking changes I've heard so much about.

    Technically our damage is the same - which is pretty unbursty, it's only our utility that's getting buffed - but that doesn't look like it's going to be the 'be all and end all'
    What you have been reading is obviously outdated. If things go live as they are right now on ptr, monks will be weaker then on live currently. I'll just address your points so you can have a clear picture of how things are currently.

    - Ring of Peace was overpowered in it's first iteration but they have toned it down quite a lot. It could be balanced or underpowered now, time will tell.
    - Deadly reach is baseline, as it should be. It's a buff, no question about it, but it should have been like this from the start.
    - Overall healing nerf, not buff. You need to take PVP power healing out of the equation because monks are not the only ones getting the buff, all the hybrids are so that part of the "buff" is not to be considered. But even if you do take it into consideration, you will notice that you heal for less then on live with buff included. So overall, healing hes been completely gutted and that completely negates the buffs from the first two points. Monks have been squishy from the get go, and with the healing gutted they are even more squishier on PTR then on live. Huge nerf.
    - This is an obvious buff but, as with 2nd point, it should have been like this from the start. It doesn't affect ToK so much because if you are able to use it, it means that you are obviously in melee range so it's not a problem to do a jab so you can ToK. But it was completely illogical for Tiger's Lust to have chi cost.
    - Cleave is lackluster to say the least. The idea itself is good, but SEF is at best a weak funny dot that follows someone around and pokes it in the arse. The images are very weak and easy to dispose of. Working with SEF is kinda clunky and unrewarding. But we'll see how it goes with more playing. I may yet change my mind on this, but testing this on PTR has lead me to a conclusion that SEF definitely needs more tuning.

    @Emophia:
    SFB is already nerfed. No need to worry about that. And new mastery, even though it's good on paper, is really not very good in practice. Let's think about this, what did we lose to get that new mastery? We lost our old one which became a fixed passive effect. But one with a much lower value. What that means is that you will get less free BoK and TP and that has enormous impact in PVP.

    We will just have to wait to see how it pans out because atm, seems like there is no reasoning with Blizz in regards to these changes so no point in even trying.
    Last edited by Fichek; 2013-02-11 at 12:05 AM.

  13. #13
    Actually monk has execute, touch of death. Player with 10%hp gets instantly killed.

  14. #14
    Banned ViridianWRA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cle View Post
    Actually monk has execute, touch of death. Player with 10%hp gets instantly killed.
    On a 1.5 min to 3.5 min cooldown, costing a substantial chunk of resources and starts at 10%.

    Versus Execute, Kill Shot, Soul Reaper, etc, which start at 20-35%, have reasonably short cooldowns, still are basically instant kills at their respective ranges (kill shot least so) and have a much lower resource cost.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by willtron View Post
    So I've been reading about how 5.2 WW monks are going to be 'god mode' essentially, is there any shred of truth in that, or is it all over exaggeration? I love playing my monk now - but they do need a few things fixing.

    From what I gather from patch notes:

    - We get a new talented silence/disarm
    - Deadly reach is baseline
    - Overall self healing buff (Coupled with universal hybrid PvP power healing buff)
    - No Chi costs to Tok or Tiger's Lust
    - A cleave

    Now, forgive me if I'm being short sighted, but these seem like quality of life changes that are needed and not game breaking changes I've heard so much about.

    Technically our damage is the same - which is pretty unbursty, it's only our utility that's getting buffed - but that doesn't look like it's going to be the 'be all and end all'
    Monks won't be overpowered, but they will be very good, and competitive in pretty much any PvP environment.

  16. #16
    Ring of Peace and the Tigereye Brew changes are the big selling points for Monk PVP. We'll see about RoP, it may turn out to be pretty handy, or it may turn out to not even be competitive with Leg Sweep (you can't cast or melee while stunned, either, and you also can't move). TEB change might address our need for a bit more burst to be useful. Deadly Reach is a good change, but our CC will still be subpar once you compare to things like Repentance. Our new cleave is for PVE.

    Sidenote: RoP for MW might be interesting.

    As for being competitive, I'm not holding my breath. It seems a lot of our potential competitiveness boils down to RoP, and I don't know if it can really carry WW to viability. I remember when Shadow Priests used to be crap except for having Mass Dispel, and the result was they were still crap.

    Edit: Nimble Brew. Lets not forget we're getting a CC break. Mmm, we'll see, there's still a lot of spammable CC out there. Will make Shaman and Paladins cry, though.
    Last edited by Felade; 2013-02-11 at 02:19 AM.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Felade View Post
    Ring of Peace and the Tigereye Brew changes are the big selling points for Monk PVP. We'll see about RoP, it may turn out to be pretty handy, or it may turn out to not even be competitive with Leg Sweep (you can't cast or melee while stunned, either, and you also can't move). TEB change might address our need for a bit more burst to be useful. Deadly Reach is a good change, but our CC will still be subpar once you compare to things like Repentance. Our new cleave is for PVE.

    Sidenote: RoP for MW might be interesting.

    As for being competitive, I'm not holding my breath. It seems a lot of our potential competitiveness boils down to RoP, and I don't know if it can really carry WW to viability. I remember when Shadow Priests used to be crap except for having Mass Dispel, and the result was they were still crap.

    Edit: Nimble Brew. Lets not forget we're getting a CC break. Mmm, we'll see, there's still a lot of spammable CC out there. Will make Shaman and Paladins cry, though.
    Very few Ret Paladins use Repentance... Ret CC is already a joke compared to WW CC, even before the buffs. Repent has a cast time, meaning you have to sit still and risk interruption, and it is dispensable. Yeah, it does last longer, but casting as a melee is too heavy of a price, only about 25% of top Rets use it according to Ghostcrawler, and that's probably because their teammates bring lots of stuns, making Fist of Justice experience too many DR problems.

    Our cleave is amazing for PvP. You can use it to keep casters from drinking, you can use it to stop flag caps even when you are CCed, and can be a dps gain when being kited well.
    Last edited by Tangra; 2013-02-11 at 03:19 AM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Validity View Post
    On a 1.5 min to 3.5 min cooldown, costing a substantial chunk of resources and starts at 10%.

    Versus Execute, Kill Shot, Soul Reaper, etc, which start at 20-35%, have reasonably short cooldowns, still are basically instant kills at their respective ranges (kill shot least so) and have a much lower resource cost.
    I think ToD is a perfect candidate for a rework, as it stands now its basically useless, in pve the target must be at or below your current health so not good for bosses, pve they have to be at 10% of their health and it does work if glyphed nicely. However like blizzard has said "If a player is at the point where ToD can be used on them they were probably going to die anyway."

    I would say give this an execute range of 25-30% give it an 8-10 second cooldown w/no chi cost The ability could be made like other executes. We wouldnt need a new ability or slot for it and its something that most other dps have that we should as well.

  19. #19
    Banned ViridianWRA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaggid View Post
    I think ToD is a perfect candidate for a rework, as it stands now its basically useless, in pve the target must be at or below your current health so not good for bosses, pve they have to be at 10% of their health and it does work if glyphed nicely. However like blizzard has said "If a player is at the point where ToD can be used on them they were probably going to die anyway."

    I would say give this an execute range of 25-30% give it an 8-10 second cooldown w/no chi cost The ability could be made like other executes. We wouldnt need a new ability or slot for it and its something that most other dps have that we should as well.
    I would love to see Touch of Death as a rotational chi spender used sub 25%. Maybe a two chi cost to have it replace Blackout Kick, and have it trigger Shuffle for Brewmasters.

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